2019 1B options

[Mike Sixel]

Two or three spots higher, but that area is in rounding difference...

[drivlikejehu]

Kepler has no value at 1B, he's only a starting caliber player because he plays solid defense in RF. 

[Kelly Vance]

 

It shouldn't be up to "Joe" whether or not he plays.

And while he once was important to the Twins in terms of winning, that's no longer the case. He contributes very little to winning.

 

Like hell.

Joe is the ultimate gamer. He has played hurt many times and a fair person would give him credit for that.  None of the guys you would replace him with has Joe's gravitas. And where is the loyalty?  He is someone that is a historical franchise cornerstone. Like the the Brew and Kirby.  He deserves more respect than you give him. And that means he and the FO get to decide when its over, not feckless fans. Besides, he is as capable of hitting .300 now as ever.

I hope for a restful offseason and one more cup o Joe next year. 

 

 

[AlwaysinModeration]

Well...if 'clutch' and 'choke' are so real to you...

 

which category would Joe's 641 OPS with 1 RBI and 1 X-base hit in 44 post-season plate appearances put him in?

I’d put it in the “misleading” category. If not for Joe West, he’d have 2 x-base hits and a .666 OPS!

[diehardtwinsfan]

 

I’d put it in the “misleading” category. If not for Joe West, he’d have 2 x-base hits and a .666 OPS!

sooo close... it was Phil Cuzzi… but you have a point

[Kelly Vance]

 

Well...if 'clutch' and 'choke' are so real to you...

 

which category would Joe's 641 OPS with 1 RBI and 1 X-base  hit in 44 post-season plate appearances put him in?

Well, maybe the category where they could pitch around him.  You cannot disprove the rule by citing an exception.  And no fair person would try to prove anything based on 44 plate appearances. 

 

Jerry West was nicknamed "Mr. Clutch." They don't give a nickname like that because there is no such thing as "clutch."  Joe Montana was clutch. Tom Brady was clutch, and Reggie Jackson.... well he is immortal because of the 1977 series. Everybody that follows sports knows that there are some guys that just have that special quality. 

 

Joe has been clutch, Twins style, and although I like Eddie, there is nobody I'd rather see bat for the Twins with bases loaded than Joe Mauer.

[jkcarew]

Joe has been clutch, Twins style, and although I like Eddie, there is nobody I'd rather see bat for the Twins with bases loaded than Joe Mauer.

You’ve convinced me. But, at this stage of Joe’s career, I’d rather have the Twins look to see if they can find someone with the “Reggie Jackson style” of awesome clutchiness.

[jkcarew]

Joe is the ultimate gamer. He has played hurt many times and a fair person would give him credit for that.

It took me a while. But, now I get it.

[Monkeypaws]

I think it would be shameful were the Twins to merely cast Mauer aside at the end of the season.

 

I remember watching Harmon Killebrew in a Royals uniform. Ugh. You just don't do that to special franchise players. 

 

Twins cast aside Morneau, Cuddyer, Hunter, Hawkins before their expire date. They were younger when they left, but I would have preferred they all stayed here.

.

I hope they come up with a deal that allows Mauer his farewell tour for a reasonable price for both sides. 

 

Not being sentimental, but how an organization treats players like this matters, to me at least.

 

EDIT: It isn't like the people being proposed here to replace him are blocked stars.

[yarnivek1972]

I think it would be shameful were the Twins to merely cast Mauer aside at the end of the season.

 

I remember watching Harmon Killebrew in a Royals uniform. Ugh. You just don't do that to special franchise players.

 

Twins cast aside Morneau, Cuddyer, Hunter, Hawkins before their expire date. They were younger when they left, but I would have preferred they all stayed here.

.

I hope they come up with a deal that allows Mauer his farewell tour for a reasonable price for both sides.

 

Not being sentimental, but how an organization treats players like this matters, to me at least.

 

EDIT: It isn't like the people being proposed here to replace him are blocked stars.

Not sure I see your point. Based on what Killebrew did in his one season in KC it seems the Twins were right in that his best days were long past and he probably would have been better off retiring. btw, maybe you are familiar with the guy who took over at first in Harmon’s absence: Rod Carew. 1975 was when he made his trsnsition to first base.

 

IMO, the best thing for Mauer to do is retire.

[Jham]

I can’t tell if you are trolling or not, to be honest, but Joe’s career numbers with runners in scoring position are:

.334 / .459 / .475 / .934

With 2 outs and RISP:

.324 / .474 / .478 / .951

In “late and close” situations (7th inning or later, game within a run) his batting average is significantly lower, but he still gets on base more than 40% of the time:

.277 / .403 / .405 / .808

So, I’m ok with Mauer at the plate in clutch situations, but that’s just me.

You are correct that he doesn’t show a ton of emotion on the field, but at this point, isn’t that pretty well established?

So this seems to support not clutch... hitting with risp, 2 outs, bases loaded could all happen whenever. Up 10, down 10 first inning, 12th inning... Of course late and close often includes careful pitching, lefty specialists, and top relievers. It would be nice with all the data we have if we could analyze expected outcomes against the particular pitcher and see how often a player exceeds those expectations. That said, the late and close numbers seem significantly lower than expected even against great competition, batting in mind that pitchers can get nervous in big spots as well.

[jorgenswest]

Not sure I see your point. Based on what Killebrew did in his one season in KC it seems the Twins were right in that his best days were long past and he probably would have been better off retiring. btw, maybe you are familiar with the guy who took over at first in Harmon’s absence: Rod Carew. 1975 was when he made his trsnsition to first base.

IMO, the best thing for Mauer to do is retire.

That wasn’t my memory.

 

Looks like Craig Kusick and John Briggs bridged the last year Killebrew was the main 1B and Carew was the starter.

 

Kusick might be a fair comp to Tyler Austin though.

[yarnivek1972]

That wasn’t my memory.

 

Looks like Craig Kusick and John Briggs bridged the last year Killebrew was the main 1B and Carew was the starter.

 

Kusick might be a fair comp to Tyler Austin though.

Carew made the full transition the next season. The year Harmon was in KC, Carew made 14 starts at 1b though.

[Monkeypaws]

 

Not sure I see your point. Based on what Killebrew did in his one season in KC it seems the Twins were right in that his best days were long past and he probably would have been better off retiring. btw, maybe you are familiar with the guy who took over at first in Harmon’s absence: Rod Carew. 1975 was when he made his trsnsition to first base.

IMO, the best thing for Mauer to do is retire.

It's about respect. Should be a 2 way street.

 

 

[IndianaTwin]

We have general agreement that the concussions turned Joe into significantly less than his best. And even when he got back on the field, it took a while to be fully back. In 2017, he had his best season after the concussions, playing what many of us thought was Gold Glove defense and turning in an OPS+ of 115.

 

I say that because I don’t think enough has been made about the potential influence of the concussion this year. In his first 38 games, his OPS was .839. In 44 games post-concussion, it’s .658. Those may not be huge sample sizes, but in my mind they are big enough to suggest a good likelihood that something is up.

 

That he was “only” out for about 25 games suggest that this was a minor concussion, which is how it was described. If this is the case, it also seems possible that with a full offseason and further distance from the concussion, he could more quickly be back to the .839 OPS guy.

 

That said, with the number of concussion he has had and with the research that we are getting from medical professional, my hope for him as a person is that he takes seriously the risk of continued playing. But if the concussion protocols and medical analysis suggest that 1) it’s safe to play, and 2) he’s indeed fully back to health (not just “healthy enough to play), then I’d like to see it be largely Joe’s call.

 

(By the way, though my post isn’t primarily about “clutch” and though he just made an out in that at bat, the radio guys just noted that he’s leading the league with a .431 average with runners in scoring position.)

[yarnivek1972]

It's about respect. Should be a 2 way street.

The Twins respected Mauer to the tune of $23 mil per. Over the past 5 seasons the Twins paid $ 23 mil per for mediocre (and that’s being kind) production, and a guy who didn’t play at all in what amounts to more than a season’s worth of games.

 

Getting old sucks. Believe me, I know. But at some point, world class athletes stop being world class.

 

Let’s for a second, look at it the other way: why would Mauer want to be a part time player? I mean, in many ways he is already. Why would he want to continue in an even more reduced role? Which is what those who think he should be back in 2019 seem to have in mind.

 

Further, let’s play devil’s advocate and say Rooker blows up in ST and then hits .400 with 10 HR in April in AAA. Meanwhile, Joe is hitting his usual .275, no power, few RBI. Are you really prepared to let Rooker rot in AAA all year when he might be able to help win games at the MLB level?

[Riverbrian]

In this case, it's not the manager that's the problem.

 

It's the player. A 36 yr old who only plays first base, provides minimal offense, and apparently needs 2 days off a week from the least physically demanding position on the diamond.

Of Course it’s on the manager.

[IndianaTwin]

That wasn’t my memory.

Looks like Craig Kusick and John Briggs bridged the last year Killebrew was the main 1B and Carew was the starter.

Kusick might be a fair comp to Tyler Austin though.

Thanks for bringing a smile to my face by mentioning Craig Kusick. For some reason, I have the vivid memory of choosing to sit in Dad’s pickup truck to listen to the game over watching the tractor pull and hearing the announcers talk about this Craig Kusick guy making his debut. I was only seven, but I was pretty sure that he had the skills to replace Mr. Killebrew. Uh, not so much.

 

And below is link to exactly the baseball card that came to mind when I thought of him.

 

As to Briggs, I could never be a big fan of him because I was mad that they had traded my guy Bobby Darwin to get him.

 

https://img.comc.com/ebay-both/85ab2a7a-a4e9-401d-b48e-1af40102946e.jpg?refresh

[yarnivek1972]

Of Course it’s on the manager.

[Riverbrian]

Because maybe Ernest Borgnine should realize he isn’t performing as well as he did in years past and be graceful enough to exit, stage right.

So Ernest has to do the job of the producer and director and do what they won’t do?

[Monkeypaws]

 

The Twins respected Mauer to the tune of $23 mil per. Over the past 5 seasons the Twins paid $ 23 mil per for mediocre (and that’s being kind) production, and a guy who didn’t play at all in what amounts to more than a season’s worth of games.

Getting old sucks. Believe me, I know. But at some point, world class athletes stop being world class.

Let’s for a second, look at it the other way: why would Mauer want to be a part time player? I mean, in many ways he is already. Why would he want to continue in an even more reduced role? Which is what those who think he should be back in 2019 seem to have in mind.

Further, let’s play devil’s advocate and say Rooker blows up in ST and then hits .400 with 10 HR in April in AAA. Meanwhile, Joe is hitting his usual .275, no power, few RBI. Are you really prepared to let Rooker rot in AAA all year when he might be able to help win games at the MLB level?

Point taken - however, when you put Morrison, Grossman, Motter, and others out there, is Mauer that bad as a bench option as a 1b,dh, ph option? He could probably patrol RF with his arm if he tried.

 

Didn't expect to be defending Mauer tonight.

 

Still, how would you like a team to treat its real stars, faded or not, money aside? Derek Jeter, Bernie Williams, Jorge Posada, Mariano Rivera: that's how you treat a star you signed and developed. Mauer had a health issue , like Tony O. Coulda been a 1st ballot guy.

 

If you wanna watch Rooker whiff 200 times next year, more power to you.

[USAFChief]

 

Like hell.

Joe is the ultimate gamer. He has played hurt many times and a fair person would give him credit for that.  None of the guys you would replace him with has Joe's gravitas. And where is the loyalty?  He is someone that is a historical franchise cornerstone. Like the the Brew and Kirby.  He deserves more respect than you give him. And that means he and the FO get to decide when its over, not feckless fans. Besides, he is as capable of hitting .300 now as ever.

I hope for a restful offseason and one more cup o Joe next year. 

You know he's "played hurt many times" how, exactly?

 

For the record, he's played 150 games in a season exactly once. As many as 140 games in a season another 4 times. That's 9 seasons of under 140 games, out of 14, not including 2018 (which will be under 130.) He is now a part time player, there is really no disputing that, even disregarding the injury time off.

 

I also dispute "he is as capable of hitting .300 now as ever." He's done it once since 2013, just barely, and the other seasons since '13 are all under .280. And of course the BA comes with almost no power.

 

And call me a simpleton, but I don't think "gravitas" wins baseball games.

 

I stand by my opinion...it shouldn't be up to Mauer whether or not he plays for the Twins in 2019. If he wants to play, it should be up to the front office to decide if he's the best option to help win games.

 

And if that's the best the front office can do, well, that's not a very encouraging sign.

 

 

[yarnivek1972]

Point taken - however, when you put Morrison, Grossman, Motter, and others out there, is Mauer that bad as a bench option as a 1b,dh, ph option? He could probably patrol RF with his arm if he tried.

 

Didn't expect to be defending Mauer tonight.

 

Still, how would you like a team to treat its real stars, faded or not, money aside? Derek Jeter, Bernie Williams, Jorge Posada, Mariano Rivera: that's how you treat a star you signed and developed. Mauer had a health issue , like Tony O. Coulda been a 1st ballot guy.

 

If you wanna watch Rooker whiff 200 times next year, more power to you.

 

With the exception of Jeter, those recent Yankee greats were all still pretty good in their last 2-3 seasons. Rivera was still otherworldly.

[USAFChief]

 

Point taken - however, when you put Morrison, Grossman, Motter, and others out there, is Mauer that bad as a bench option as a 1b,dh, ph option? He could probably patrol RF with his arm if he tried.

 

Didn't expect to be defending Mauer tonight.

 

Still, how would you like a team to treat its real stars, faded or not, money aside? Derek Jeter, Bernie Williams, Jorge Posada, Mariano Rivera: that's how you treat a star you signed and developed. Mauer had a health issue , like Tony O. Coulda been a 1st ballot guy.

 

If you wanna watch Rooker whiff 200 times next year, more power to you.

RIvera, Jeter, and Posada were full time regulars in their last season. Even WIlliams played 131 games. They weren't kept around as part time players on farewell tours.

 

I guess if you want to put Mauer on the bench, he's a decent option, but again, you're only going to get 1B, DH, and PHing from him. If he hasn't played 3b or RF by now, he's not going to.

[Richie the Rally Goat]

Well "clutch" is as real as the pitchers mound, or there wouldn't be a term invented to describe that special kind of gamer. Of course the best hitters have high batting averages with RISP. They have higher BAs across the board. But not all of them are clutch.

 

Ted Williams used to be known for taking a walk. That did not make him "not clutch." If your rule is "get a good pitch to hit" like with Ted and Joe, then swinging at off the plate stuff is the easiest way to start a slump. Joe has been one of those hitters who avoids slumps more than others. His consistency is one of his hallmarks.

 

That is part of being clutch too

Clutch is difficult to measure, because it is largely driven by perception. Reality is what we perceive it to be, but the goal of the stats is to take your heart out of decision making.

 

I don’t disagree that clutch is real and agree that Joe’s extraordinary ability to not make an out is vital to scoring runs in the clutch.

 

It’s vital to scoring runs in every inning though, not just in the 9th.

[TheLeviathan]

I'm only ok with resigning Mauer if he's essentially a stop-gap until Rooker or some other long-term option is available.

 

He's just not productive enough at this point to justify a roster spot.  But I don't give him a contract longer than a year and probably not for more than 6-7M.

[Borealis]

Im all about a good debate. A few of you have brought good arguments/plans that keep Joe and some let him walk. Very cool.

 

That said, do we really have to keep belaboring that Joe doesnt hit for power paleez?

 

The stat guys would point to data sets that say that powe is not joes only problem. Hes not driving runs or scoring enough runs. And i would say to them do u you watch the games?

 

Yes, i am a Mauer fan. Believe it or not i think hes one of the mostunderrated in the game.

 

 

Giving professional at bats, turning a lineup over, saving the left side of errorrs, scaring the hell out of Verlander. Where does this show up in the box score - or in the new metrics?

 

 

As for the Kirby guy. Be careful on your heros - theres some darkness there.

[Linus]

Banking on Rooker et al to be better than Mauer next year is a reach they don’t have many options

[Otto von Ballpark]

I remember watching Harmon Killebrew in a Royals uniform.

Hey, Harmon also played a few years in a Senators uniform!

 

Maybe we could compromise and let Mauer play for the Nationals next year.

[Mike Sixel]

 

Banking on Rooker et al to be better than Mauer next year is a reach they don’t have many options

 

Sano, Kepler, Garver, Austin (btw, Austin has a higher wrc+ than Mauer this year, in his major's at bats, so does Kepler....so does Garver). 

 

None of that counts Rooker....none of it. None of it counts a FA or trade either.