Twins demote Romero

[DocBauer]

From my perspective, Doc, this is a lost year, or maybe expressed better, a year of making the playoffs is gone. Zero wild card chances, and a less than 0.005% chance of catching the Indians. Injuries and extremely poor front office manipulations are the main culprits.

So to answer your question, I would hope the organization would look to 2019 and beyond, and try to figure out who is going to be in their long term plans, and if there are questions of who those may be, play them starting July 1 to see what you might have.

With regard to our current roster, I would guess on Rosario, Buxton, and Kepler (and probably Sano), are certainties on offense (I personally would make every effort to include Escobar). And Polanco.

The pitching staff is even harder to project. Berrios, then probably Gibson for the starters. Don’t think you can automatically include Romero. Hildenburger, Pressly, Reed, + Rodney would be the leaders in the clubhouse for the relievers. But how about seeing if the younger guys in the organization might work out during the last 3 months(Busenitz, Curtiss, Moya, etc). Include Gonsalves, Mejia, May, and I suppose Slegers as possible starters.

Let’s try this for a change-2018 didn’t work too well!

Funny how this thread de-evolved from Romero to 2019. Am I to blame? Lol

 

Really like your post Curt and agree with you just about 100%. Where I disagree is the FO. Except for Rochester, I really like just about every off season move they made. Though I would argue they made better shuttle moves between Rochester and Minnesota last season than they have made this season so far.

 

And I agree with including every position player for next season you mentioned, including Escobar. To not bring him back would be assanine. Probably Mauer as well, on a 1 or 2 year deal, barring a second half collapse.

 

Berrios and Gibson are locks. I would call Romero one as well. Growing pains happen. Thjs time last season, he was in AA. His talent and potential is undeniable. Let's allow a speed bump or two, shall we? We are LOADED for the 5th spot in the rotation: May, Gonsalves, Littell, Slegers, Pineda, Mejia. But who is the 4th guy you can count on? Is it Odorizzi getting right again? One more season from Santana who gets healthy and right for the second half? One of the previously mentioned who takes the job the second half of 2017?

 

Make no mistake though, Romero is squarely in the plans for 2018, despite this weird demotion/roster play. The pen is more in flux due to not only performance, but contracts and promotions.

 

We're I to try and place myself in the chairs of the FO, I would see myself coming in to a mess of a 100 loss season. And I would have my plan. And I would look at all the young talent I had, and coming up, and make the prospect and draft moves I did, and add talent where I could, and make the off season moves I did for a surprise team in 2017. And I would leave my options open. (Which they have done if you look at contract situations as they stand). And if what I've done just isn't gelling and working...injuries, poor years, whatever...and there just is no realistic chance, then I look a lot harder at who I want to keep and let go, and start to promote more aggressively.

 

Despite our frustrations right now gang, let's not lose sight of the fact that there are still some really nice building blocks in place.

 

The second half of 2018 is not some simple ho-hum play reserves and promote prospects. The second half of 2018 is a real opportunity for 2019. No rose colored glasses. Its about re-signing Escobar, extending Gibson, what to do with Dozier and Mauer. Gordon and Wade and Cave will all receive shots. So will the young pen arms as well as Mejia, Gonsalves, Littell and Slegers in the rotation. You could include May, Pineda and Santana. Who stays? Who goes?

 

This not a scrap heap team. There remains tremendous potential here, despite our frustration and disappointment for this year. I am not saying sell, sell, sell. I'm saying, if we are really out of contention after mid July, there is a lot to look forward to in relation to looks and future planning.

 

TR is gone. There is a new FO in place. There is real talent here, more on the way, and tremendous financial flexibility. So after this season,only 2 years in to the job, the FO just sucks and is incompetent after 1 playoff season and 1 disappointing season?

[old nurse]

 

They had no problem of keeping him if they could, they just didn't want to pay him. They might have already talked to Padres before they DFAd Hughes.

The draft pick sent to San Diego was worth more than Huges' salary if you believe in your draft department

[old nurse]

 

 

Funny how this thread de-evolved from Romero to 2019. Am I to blame? Lol
.

TR is gone. There is a new FO in place. There is real talent here, more on the way, and tremendous financial flexibility. So after this season,only 2 years in to the job, the FO just sucks and is incompetent after 1 playoff season and 1 disappointing season?

Welcome to the age of instant gratification. If choices the FO makes don't work, the FO sucks. Player injuries and lack of the player making the right choices, the FO sucks.

[Platoon]

There is no doubt this is going to be a completely different team next year. But while I have absolutely no problem with starting to meld some of the younger MiLB players onto the roster, one thing is inescapable. Either Sano and Buxton live up to their potential or everything is a moot point. They are not the only two players in the universe, but they are the only two that the Twins have access to with this upside. Also, if yet again, the team is going into reset mode with a rebuild mentality, Molitor has to go. Rather than deal with, and discipline the mistakes made by younger players he simply retreats to his security blanket of the stable vets. I would imagine the impetus for Belisle came from Molitor. Regrettably he will still be here through 2019. They will stand on the MOY, injuries and bad luck as a rationale. And next year, even if yet another year goes south on us, you don't want to fire a manager in the middle of the year, not in MN.

[jorgenswest]

It is hard to separate Belisle from this conversation but ...

 

If Busenitz were already in this roster and they sent down Romero to bring up Duffey to add an arm to the pen today I might think good use of options.

 

They get the arm they need today. They have an opportunity to get Romero reset. If it is a factor they can reduce his innings. He would potentially return July 5 with one start at Rochester. This short term could be beneficial to his development.

 

The Twins will need one start in that span on June 30. It could be an opportunity for Mejia.

[Doctor Wu]

 

 

 

Not to be dramatic but the front office MAY... May... may...  in my opinion of course... may have pulled the plug with this move. If they thought they were still in contention. They probably hang on to Romero since he has been (while not perfect)... better. 

 

Oh well, I jumped the gun.You had me thinking that this was a segue leading to a plug for Trevor May in the rotation!

[Kelly Vance]

Romero may have been sent down to work on something, and for a reason or reasons that aren't even mentioned in this thread. We don't know. None of us is a fly on the wall in the FO.

 

That said, I don't get the hate for Belisle. Maybe you'd prefer a different arm, but if Molly wants the guy and he came very cheap, then maybe Molly won't keep using Pressley, Reed and Hildy until they develop sore arms. I see it as a minor tweak, not the end of the world. 

 

I also don't concede 2018. And I don't blame Molly or Sano or Buck. We had a bucket full of injuries. What team would still be in contention with all of those injuries?  I think these guys are struggling for a variety of reasons, but a bounce back is still possible. Stay positive.

 

 

[Otto von Ballpark]

I think the Bullpen Burning Today was the final straw. They need an extra bullpen arm and this gives them an excuse to make it Romero.

So they're letting Odorizzi's short start dictate Romero's development?

[nicksaviking]

 

That said, I don't get the hate for Belisle. Maybe you'd prefer a different arm, but if Molly wants the guy and he came very cheap, then maybe Molly won't keep using Pressley, Reed and Hildy until they develop sore arms. I see it as a minor tweak, not the end of the world.

If a GM has to make a poor roster decision simply to protect the players from getting overworked by the manager, I think you need a new manager.

[Riverbrian]

 

So they're letting Odorizzi's short start dictate Romero's development?

 

I have no idea. I can only theorize with fuzzy two plus two math like the rest of us.

 

The need for a bullpen arm was seemingly the necessity that activated the need for a decision yesterday. Otherwise... like you mentioned... they could have sent Romero down after his start on Friday.

 

In theory... the plan for Romero could have been in the back of the collective Falvine mind for quite some time and this provided the timing but again... I have no idea. 

 

Waiving Belisle or Magill were options and they didn't go either of those directions. 

 

In the rotation only Romero and Odorizzi were possibilities for demotion without penalty. 

 

Romero has been better than Odorizzi for the season. 

Romero has been better than Odorizzi for the past 30 days. 

Romero has been better than Odorizzi for the past 15 days. 

Romero was better than Odorizzi in the most recent starts for both. 

 

I've always said that when things don't make sense... follow the money and it clears up. I've been amazed how often that is true. 

 

 

[jud6312]

 

Or perhaps Belisle brings something to the table that the young guys need to see?

How not to pitch?

[Riverbrian]

 

Romero may have been sent down to work on something, and for a reason or reasons that aren't even mentioned in this thread. We don't know. None of us is a fly on the wall in the FO.

 

That said, I don't get the hate for Belisle. Maybe you'd prefer a different arm, but if Molly wants the guy and he came very cheap, then maybe Molly won't keep using Pressley, Reed and Hildy until they develop sore arms. I see it as a minor tweak, not the end of the world. 

 

I also don't concede 2018. And I don't blame Molly or Sano or Buck. We had a bucket full of injuries. What team would still be in contention with all of those injuries?  I think these guys are struggling for a variety of reasons, but a bounce back is still possible. Stay positive.

 

I agree with most of what you are saying.  

 

But... I will disagree with this ... it wasn't the injuries.

 

It's was and is the performance of the healthy. Sano, Buxton, Dozier, Morrison and Kepler collectively have made it near impossible to be a winning team. 

 

The Sano and Buxton injuries actually guaranteed that Molitor would have to play someone who performed better. Not someone better... but someone who performed better. 

 

That brings the costly injuries down to Mauer, Castro and Polanco suspension.

 

Nearly every major league team has had to endure significant injuries or more this season and all the seasons before that. 

 

Check this out: https://www.rosterresource.com/mlb-disabled-list-tracker/

 

The accuracy of the rating system and subsequent rankings can of course be debated but it is easy to look at it and conclude that the sum total of our 2018 injuries are pretty typical and therefore not a valid excuse. 

[Riverbrian]

 

From my perspective, Doc, this is a lost year, or maybe expressed better, a year of making the playoffs is gone. Zero wild card chances, and a less than 0.005% chance of catching the Indians. Injuries and extremely poor front office manipulations are the main culprits.
So to answer your question, I would hope the organization would look to 2019 and beyond, and try to figure out who is going to be in their long term plans, and if there are questions of who those may be, play them starting July 1 to see what you might have.
With regard to our current roster, I would guess on Rosario, Buxton, and Kepler (and probably Sano), are certainties on offense (I personally would make every effort to include Escobar). And Polanco.
The pitching staff is even harder to project. Berrios, then probably Gibson for the starters. Don’t think you can automatically include Romero. Hildenburger, Pressly, Reed, + Rodney would be the leaders in the clubhouse for the relievers. But how about seeing if the younger guys in the organization might work out during the last 3 months(Busenitz, Curtiss, Moya, etc). Include Gonsalves, Mejia, May, and I suppose Slegers as possible starters.
Let’s try this for a change-2018 didn’t work too well!

 

Barring injury or complete collapse from someone... I think the 2019 opening day rotation is set. 

 

Gibson, Berrios, Romero, Odorizzi and Pineda are the starting 5.

 

They will have a lot of holes to concentrate on elsewhere and decent starting pitching depth remaining even if they elect to let Mejia and May go. I don't believe we will have any surprise Lynn type signings next off season. 

[Otto von Ballpark]

The need for a bullpen arm was seemingly the necessity that activated the need for a decision yesterday. Otherwise... like you mentioned... they could have sent Romero down after his start on Friday.

Didn't we have a similar need for a bullpen arm after Friday? Why play the Saturday game shorthanded for no apparent gain?

[Riverbrian]

 

Didn't we have a similar need for a bullpen arm after Friday? Why play the Saturday game shorthanded for no apparent gain?

 

It wasn't as acute?

 

 

[USAFChief]

 

That said, I don't get the hate for Belisle. Maybe you'd prefer a different arm...

You’re absolutely right.

 

I’d prefer a different arm.

[Richie the Rally Goat]

Is Magill taking Romero’s spot in the rotation? If not does he go to AAA to make room for Mejia?

[Otto von Ballpark]

Is Magill taking Romero’s spot in the rotation? If not does he go to AAA to make room for Mejia?

Magill would have to clear waivers to be sent to AAA (no options remaining). I believe he could elect free agency as well (outrighted previously in his career).

[Riverbrian]

 

Is Magill taking Romero’s spot in the rotation? If not does he go to AAA to make room for Mejia?

 

Magill might clear waivers but right now you'd have to consider the next move to make room for Mejia: 

 

A can that has been kicked down the road a little. 

[Monkeypaws]

Romero needs to pitch more than 4-5 innings if he wants to be an MLB starter. 

 

I would like to have kept him in the pen, but that isn't gonna help stretch him out into a legit starter.

[yarnivek1972]

Romero needs to pitch more than 4-5 innings if he wants to be an MLB starter.

 

I would like to have kept him in the pen, but that isn't gonna help stretch him out into a legit starter.

Why? Odorizzi usually doesn’t.

[Otto von Ballpark]

Romero needs to pitch more than 4-5 innings if he wants to be an MLB starter.

 

League average IP per start is 5.5.

 

Romero averaged 5.1 in his first 10 starts.

[Kelly Vance]

 

If a GM has to make a poor roster decision simply to protect the players from getting overworked from the manager, I think you need a new manager.

I was just speculating...maybe I should shut up

[RatherBeGolfing]

 

Why? Odorizzi usually doesn’t.

 

IALTO

[Mike Sixel]

Liam Hendricks was just cut, maybe they can sign him to a large, MLB, deal!

[Vanimal46]

Liam Hendricks was just cut, maybe they can sign him to a large, MLB, deal!

Too early to target him... He'll rejoin the team in 2025 when he's 36 years old.

[yarnivek1972]

Liam Hendricks was just cut, maybe they can sign him to a large, MLB, deal!

Only if we can get Liam Neeson as a throw in. He has a unique set of skills, so I have heard. Hopefully, he can teach some of them to the players.

[Monkeypaws]

 

League average IP per start is 5.5.

Romero averaged 5.1 in his first 10 starts.

That average includes lots of 2-3 inning duds.

 

Remember the idea of a "quality start"?

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

That average includes lots of 2-3 inning duds.

 

Remember the idea of a "quality start"?

Romero's average also includes a dud, plus a 4 inning, 3 run start where he was pulled after only 63 pitches, where presumably a veteran would have been allowed to continue.

 

League average quality start percentage is 45%. Twins are at 43%. Romero only logged 3 in 10 starts (30%), but he was pulled one out shy of another in his debut.

 

He seems to have demonstrated average durability over his first 10 starts, I don't think that's why he was sent down.

[nicksaviking]

 

Liam Hendricks was just cut, maybe they can sign him to a large, MLB, deal!

 

I was going to comment that if he takes Belisle's place I'm in.

 

But I see something's off with Hendricks, he's lost 2 MPH in his FB since last year.

 

Edit: Looks like he's lost a bit of velocity on his four-seamer but the biggest reason for the average velocity drop is that he's drastically reduced his four-seamer and increased his sinker usage. So basically the opposite of what everyone else in the league is doing. 

 

Which I guess is a pretty Billy Beane thing to do.