Twins demote Romero

[Mr. Brooks]

From a fan's perspective sure. If the team was fighting for a playoff spot sure.

 

I realize that $800k is chump change in major league baseball... However, it doesn't matter what profession you are in... You have to at least try and justify your hire.

 

Can you imagine walking into your bosses office and saying that you just threw $800K away after 11 days time. The next question from the boss would be... If it took you 11 days to come to this conclusion... Why did you sign him in the first place?

Its not like the Pohlads can't read the box scores. I doubt they assess the move much differently whether he's cut, or stays here and is terrible.

[Riverbrian]

 

Add Rodney, subtract Santana.  He is damaged goods and unless he can prove that he can get MLB hitters out, nobody will trade for him.

 

Not to be overly dramatic. 

 

The Twins have a club option for 2019 with Rodney. He's been pitching alright and they already have a lot of players to replace in the off-season. 

 

Barring injury or complete collapse. I believe the Twins will pick up that option. 

[Riverbrian]

 

I think that there is another driver regarding this decision:  They have to see what Mejia has before he runs out of options next season...

 

That's another good point. Another move that helps set up for 2019. 

 

I really think the Twins just pulled the plug. It probably started with Sano and it's going to roll southward from here. 

[Otto von Ballpark]

From a fan's perspective sure. If the team was fighting for a playoff spot sure.

 

I realize that $800k is chump change in major league baseball... However, it doesn't matter what profession you are in... You have to at least try and justify your hire.

 

Can you imagine walking into your bosses office and saying that you just threw $800K away after 11 days time. The next question from the boss would be... If it took you 11 days to come to this conclusion... Why did you sign him in the first place?

The Indians "threw" $1.5 mil away after a month or so.

 

Actually, if Belisle really voided his contract asking for his release from Cleveland, did he throw away $700k? Or was the $800k basically what was left of the $1.5 mil, prorated to the remaining games?

 

The fact that we are even having this discussion would seem to be a black mark on this front office.

[Riverbrian]

 

Its not like the Pohlads can't read the box scores. I doubt they assess the move much differently whether he's cut, or stays here and is terrible.

 

The Pohlad's probably can read the box scores... what they will be wondering is if anybody in the front office can read scouting reports, performance statistics, advanced metrics, warning flags, birth certificates along with the current standings and then properly assess who they spend $800K of their American Dollars on. 

[Danchat]

 

I think that there is another driver regarding this decision:  They have to see what Mejia has before he runs out of options next season...

I agree with you, but I sort of doubt that's the case. There's no guarantee Mejia will be the guy they call up and I don't think the FO/Molitor is worried about that sort of thing (even though they should be).

[Riverbrian]

 

The Indians "threw" $1.5 mil away after a month or so.

Actually, if Belisle really voided his contract asking for his release from Cleveland, did he throw away $700k? Or was the $800k basically what was left of the $1.5 mil, prorated to the remaining games?

The fact that we are even having this discussion would seem to be a black mark on this front office.

 

And the fact that the Twins paid him 800K to join the team after the Indians were willing to eat 1.5 million on the guy makes the black mark blacker. That's why they can't just eat the 800K after 11 days... They will look like idiots. (Yeah it really can't be avoided right now). It was a stupid stupid move.

 

In the Indians defense: They took a low risk shot with a minor league deal on a guy who last had a closer job on a playoff team. 

 

The Twins took a desperation shot out of frustration on a guy that was happily granted his release by their main competition. 

 

Belisle isn't going to walk away from the Indians money and ask for his release unless his agent had heard from somebody that the money was replaced by a team that was going to put him on the 25 man. 

 

The Twins in reality just cleared nearly million dollars off the books for the Indians to spend in July. The plug is pulled.  

 

Belisle ain't going anywhere for a little while. He's gonna have to stink it up a few more time. 

 

I really want to know who the advocate for the Belisle signing was? 

 

[Blake]

 

The Pohlad's probably can read the box scores... what they will be wondering is if anybody in the front office can read scouting reports, performance statistics, advanced metrics, warning flags, birth certificates along with the current standings and then properly assess who they spend $800K of their American Dollars on. 

Sigh. This is turning into a tough year after it started so well.

 

Should make the trade deadline interesting, though.

 

Were I Vanimal, I'd be salivating at the thought of writing that particular game thread.

[Blake]

 

And the fact that the Twins paid him 800K to join the team after the Indians were willing to eat 1.5 million on the guy makes the black mark blacker. That's why they can't just eat the 800K after 11 days... They will look like idiots. (Yeah it really can't be avoided right now). It was a stupid stupid move.

 

In the Indians defense: They took a low risk shot with a minor league deal on a guy who last had a closer job on a playoff team. 

 

The Twins took a desperation shot out of frustration on a guy that was happily granted his release by their main competition. 

 

Belisle isn't going to walk away from the Indians money and ask for his release unless his agent had heard from somebody that the money was replaced by a team that was going to put him on the 25 man. 

 

The Twins in reality just cleared nearly million dollars of the books for the Indians to spend in July. The plug is pulled.  

 

Belisle ain't going anywhere for a little while. He's gonna have to stink it up a few more time. 

 

I really want to know who the advocate for the Belisle signing was? 

You think it's possible the FO brought in Belisle because the FO realized it's a lost season and the FO is trying to avoid bringing people up because of service time?

[Riverbrian]

 

So, many of us thought it was borderline criminal not to cut Belisle after the Friday night game, given the general pen situation.

But if they were going to demote Romero, and waited until after the Saturday game to do so, is that even worse? That sounds like a pretty obvious roster bungling. I can't even think of a flimsy, phony rationale for it. What, they would have kept Romero if not for Odorizzi's short start? Or it took them a full 24 hours to process their thoughts on Romero?

 

I think the Bullpen Burning Today was the final straw. They need an extra bullpen arm and this gives them an excuse to make it Romero. 

[Riverbrian]

 

It's the equivalent of telling your boss the near minimum wage kid you hired can't be trusted and you're going to replace him with a different minimum wage kid.

The effect on the payroll is around 1 percent.

I really really hope it's not about his salary.

 

That is true but the minimum wage kid you hired just got out of jail for embezzlement at his previous place of employment and you released a fairly replaceable minimum wage kid in the maintenance department where they are understaffed just to make it happen. 

 

And... no matter the 1 percent. 800K is still a lot of money to just throw away after 11 days. 

[Riverbrian]

 

I agree with you, but I sort of doubt that's the case. There's no guarantee Mejia will be the guy they call up and I don't think the FO/Molitor is worried about that sort of thing (even though they should be).

 

I'm willing to bet that it's Mejia. 

 

Let the 2019 set up begin. 

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

I believe Belisle voided his deal with the Indians and was granted his release. The Twins signed him immediately to an $800,000 deal for the rest of the season.

 

wow

[Riverbrian]

 

You think it's possible the FO brought in Belisle because the FO realized it's a lost season and the FO is trying to avoid bringing people up because of service time?

 

I don't think there are any service time worries with Curtiss, Duffey, Busenitz and Moya. 

 

The Twins would probably like to get a good look at Mejia and May though, since they will be out of options and it's a lost season and they have to make decisions on them for 2019. 

 

My personal theory with no inside information what so ever was that Belisle was an answer to the question:

 

Front Office: Paul, Is there any pitcher that you will trust so you don't go to Reed, Pressly and Hildenberger over and over again? 

 

Paul: Yeah Belisle

 

 

[Blake]

 

I don't think there are any service time worries with Curtiss, Duffey, Busenitz and Moya. 

 

The Twins would probably like to get a good look at Mejia and May though, since they will be out of options and it's a lost season and they have to make decisions on them for 2019. 

 

My personal theory with no inside information what so ever was that Belisle was an answer to the question:

 

Front Office: Paul, Is there any pitcher that you will trust so you don't go to Reed, Pressly and Hildenberger over and over again? 

 

Paul: Yeah Belisle

Congratulations! You just made me cringe and laugh at the time time.

[Riverbrian]

 

That is true but the minimum wage kid you hired just got out of jail for embezzlement at his previous place of employment and you released a fairly replaceable minimum wage kid in the maintenance department where they are understaffed just to make it happen. 

 

And... no matter the 1 percent. 800K is still a lot of money to just throw away after 11 days. 

 

 

It's the equivalent of telling your boss the near minimum wage kid you hired can't be trusted and you're going to replace him with a different minimum wage kid.

The effect on the payroll is around 1 percent.

I really really hope it's not about his salary.

 

Plus... At this point you have to add to this to your scenario.

 

The quarterly report he is currently looking at says that the company is significantly under the YOY goal while over budget and the projections for the next quarter are even worse. 

 

 

 

 

[DocBauer]

 

 

Not to be dramatic again... but my guess is that Dozier, Escobar, Morrison, Lynn, Duke and Santana are now officially on the trading block.  

 

Drama!!! 

Sorry, but take Escobar off that list.

 

I have supported most all moves made by the front office since day one. Only disagreed with a couple moves here and there. Biggest complaint I've had is the Rochester roster for this season. But trading Escobar would be ridiculous for this team. He's a hard worker, a be-loved teammate and leader from all we see and hear. He's under 30, productive and versatile. This is an organization somewhat loaded with infield talent, but that talent, except for Gordon and the soon to re-instated Polanco, is in the low minors and losing Dozier, probably, after this season, if not before. And sorry, but Sano is at least a partial question mark.

 

Escobar is one of those really unique players who's value is hard to fully quantify. And this is comjng from a fan and believer in him, what exactly is his trade value? As good as he is, and was last season, (And realistically, he's had a couple other nice season's with the Twins), he's a bit of a late bloomer. There is no long history of 20+ HR 90+ RBI season's to bring some big return. He's more valuable to the team by keeping him for the next 2-3 season's IMO, than some limited return trade to another team who gets a "sleeper" steal.

 

Sorry, know thjs thread is not about Escobar, just had to comment.

[DocBauer]

That's another good point. Another move that helps set up for 2019. 

 

I really think the Twins just pulled the plug. It probably started with Sano and it's going to roll southward from here.

 

I have to admit, Brian, this could be a very relevant and intelligent post. Though I hate using those terms. LOL

 

Just being a pragmatist for a moment, the FO took over a 100+ loss team. They talked, in somewhat covert and veils terms, about building an organization from the bottom up for depth, competition and sustainability. They had, by all accounts, a big draft last year. Trades made during the season and off season brought in a few more decent to good prospects. But they also ended up with a playoff team with a ton of young talent, and a mix of older talent, and went out and made a flurry of solid moves to augment the roster. But with the exception of Reed and Odorizzi, 2 year deals, all moves were on 1 year deals, or 1 with an option. A lot of money does, and can, come off the books for 2019.

 

Question: As fans, are we so wanting to see our team compete and win, especially after last season, and the nucleus that "appears" to be in place, with more talent on the way, that we are a bit lost in the moment that we aren't seeing a bigger, long term projection?

 

Just wondering and asking.

[Riverbrian]

 

Sorry, but take Escobar off that list.

I have supported most all moves made by the front office since day one. Only disagreed with a couple moves here and there. Biggest complaint I've had is the Rochester roster for this season. But trading Escobar would be ridiculous for this team. He's a hard worker, a be-loved teammate and leader from all we see and hear. He's under 30, productive and versatile. This is an organization somewhat loaded with infield talent, but that talent, except for Gordon and the soon to re-instated Polanco, is in the low minors and losing Dozier, probably, after this season, if not before. And sorry, but Sano is at least a partial question mark.

Escobar is one of those really unique players who's value is hard to fully quantify. And this is comjng from a fan and believer in him, what exactly is his trade value? As good as he is, and was last season, (And realistically, he's had a couple other nice season's with the Twins), he's a bit of a late bloomer. There is no long history of 20+ HR 90+ RBI season's to bring some big return. He's more valuable to the team by keeping him for the next 2-3 season's IMO, than some limited return trade to another team who gets a "sleeper" steal.

Sorry, know thjs thread is not about Escobar, just had to comment.

 

He's a free agent and if you can't get him to extend... then you gotta consider trading him because he might bring something nice back. 

 

If it was me... I've already been on the phone with his agent to get a price and I'm paying it. 

 

However... If I'm Escobar and I'm having the year I'm having. I'm thinking that I can wait and see what Free Agency brings me. I can always go back to the Twins if they make a competitive offer. 

 

[Riverbrian]

 

I have to admit, Brian, this could be a very relevant and intelligent post. Though I hate using those terms. LOL

Just being a pragmatist for a moment, the FO took over a 100+ loss team. They talked, in somewhat covert and veils terms, about building an organization from the bottom up for depth, competition and sustainability. They had, by all accounts, a big draft last year. Trades made during the season and off season brought in a few more decent to good prospects. But they also ended up with a playoff team with a ton of young talent, and a mix of older talent, and went out and made a flurry of solid moves to augment the roster. But with the exception of Reed and Odorizzi, 2 year deals, all moves were on 1 year deals, or 1 with an option. A lot of money does, and can, come off the books for 2019.

Question: As fans, are we so wanting to see our team compete and win, especially after last season, and the nucleus that "appears" to be in place, with more talent on the way, that we are a bit lost in the moment that we aren't seeing a bigger, long term projection?

Just wondering and asking.

 

We are (Except for the Belisle Part... there is nothing big picture about that move at all). 

 

 

[jun]

 

The Twins are far closer to the 4th pick in the draft than to the playoffs.  To that end they could have kept Hughes. 

They had no problem of keeping him if they could, they just didn't want to pay him. They might have already talked to Padres before they DFAd Hughes.

[diehardtwinsfan]

 

You think it's possible the FO brought in Belisle because the FO realized it's a lost season and the FO is trying to avoid bringing people up because of service time?

Or perhaps Belisle brings something to the table that the young guys need to see?

[Riverbrian]

 

Or perhaps Belisle brings something to the table that the young guys need to see?

 

That might be the only justification that ties it all together. But... they gotta put some young guys on the roster and that means vets are going on the trading block. And we are back to:

 

The plug has been pulled. 

[USAFChief]

Or perhaps Belisle brings something to the table that the young guys need to see?

what young guys?

 

The young bullpen guys are in Rochester, and even they ain't young.

[Blake]

 

Or perhaps Belisle brings something to the table that the young guys need to see?

I wish I could be that charitable. 

 

I think it's an incredibly puzzling move, at best.

[diehardtwinsfan]

 

what young guys?

The young bullpen guys are in Rochester, and even they ain't young.

 

There are young guys on the 25... perhaps one of them woudl be receptive... who knows... I'm just speculating. 

[curt1965]

I have to admit, Brian, this could be a very relevant and intelligent post. Though I hate using those terms. LOL

Just being a pragmatist for a moment, the FO took over a 100+ loss team. They talked, in somewhat covert and veils terms, about building an organization from the bottom up for depth, competition and sustainability. They had, by all accounts, a big draft last year. Trades made during the season and off season brought in a few more decent to good prospects. But they also ended up with a playoff team with a ton of young talent, and a mix of older talent, and went out and made a flurry of solid moves to augment the roster. But with the exception of Reed and Odorizzi, 2 year deals, all moves were on 1 year deals, or 1 with an option. A lot of money does, and can, come off the books for 2019.

Question: As fans, are we so wanting to see our team compete and win, especially after last season, and the nucleus that "appears" to be in place, with more talent on the way, that we are a bit lost in the moment that we aren't seeing a bigger, long term projection?

Just wondering and asking.

From my perspective, Doc, this is a lost year, or maybe expressed better, a year of making the playoffs is gone. Zero wild card chances, and a less than 0.005% chance of catching the Indians. Injuries and extremely poor front office manipulations are the main culprits.

So to answer your question, I would hope the organization would look to 2019 and beyond, and try to figure out who is going to be in their long term plans, and if there are questions of who those may be, play them starting July 1 to see what you might have.

With regard to our current roster, I would guess on Rosario, Buxton, and Kepler (and probably Sano), are certainties on offense (I personally would make every effort to include Escobar). And Polanco.

The pitching staff is even harder to project. Berrios, then probably Gibson for the starters. Don’t think you can automatically include Romero. Hildenburger, Pressly, Reed, + Rodney would be the leaders in the clubhouse for the relievers. But how about seeing if the younger guys in the organization might work out during the last 3 months(Busenitz, Curtiss, Moya, etc). Include Gonsalves, Mejia, May, and I suppose Slegers as possible starters.

Let’s try this for a change-2018 didn’t work too well!

[Rosterman]

Romero has hit a wall, so so speak. Fully expected him to go down NOW if Santana was coming back.

 

Yes, the Twins do have to look at Mejia to see if they want to keep him. Slegers, at some point, too...and I would love to see Slegers in the long relief role.

 

May will have the season to progress and we can look at him for something next year. I'm hoping his velocity is back at some point and they picture him as a closer.

 

Is Odorizzi just having one of those spells? I hope so.

 

ANyone notice that Granite finally got an rbi in his stats after...what...49 games and 200 at bats? That ahs to be a record of sorts.

[KirbyDome89]

 

Or perhaps Belisle brings something to the table that the young guys need to see?

An example of what not to do when pitching in MLB?

[KirbyDome89]

I'd much rather believe this is about service time or an innings limit. I don't agree with the service time argument if they still believe they have even a remote chance, and the innings limit is an issue I think they need to address if/when (extremely unlikely) they make up ground in the standings. They aren't catching Cleveland by sending down young arms and rosters worse pitchers. 

 

That said, this is the same FO/ownership that sold a second round pick to save some $$ on the horrific Hughes extension. Would it really be that surprising if they held onto Belisle for a longer time than they should've (granted you believe the signing was even defensible in the first place) simply to "get their monies worth?"