Going forward, what moves do you think will happen?

[Riverbrian]

 

This might be fine if we did not expect to contend in 2019 or just wait until next year and the good hitters will all move on because their is no commitment to winning here.

 

We better expect to contend in 2019 because our starting pitching depth will waste a solid year if we are not. 

 

I must not have explained myself correctly. 

 

What's a better middle infield for a team in contention? 

 

A. Polanco, Gordon, AAAA Guy

B. Escobar, Polanco, Gordon 

 

 

 

[Riverbrian]

 

I have been warming to him, but Gordon doesn't strike me as the kind of prospect you play service time games with. Of course, that cuts both ways -- he may not be good enough to move quickly to the majors either.

With Dozier, Escobar, and Sano starting in the infield, and Polanco due back soon, I don't think you bother with a Gordon promotion yet. Maybe at the trade deadline if one of those guys is dealt.

Wade was a guy they could have been more aggressive with -- repeating AA was kind of silly -- but glad to see him in AAA, and another interesting younger guy in Cave starting to get the available MLB reps right now.

 

I've only seen him play a couple of spring training games so I have no idea. 

 

It does indeed cut both ways. If he isn't worth the service time game... he probably isn't worth any call up now to save our season discussion either. 

 

I'd imagine the same thing applies to Wade... with of course full considerations to all unpredictable nuance and circumstances that changes from month to month and year to year. 

[Kelly Vance]

 

Is it?

 

Sano:  .212/.282/.449 heading into today. Enormous K numbers. Health issues. Weight issues.

 

I wouldn't do it, but it's not insane.

Pretty damn close.  Sano was an Allstar last year. 

[Mike Sixel]

I've only seen him play a couple of spring training games so I have no idea.

 

It does indeed cut both ways. If he isn't worth the service time game... he probably isn't worth any call up now to save our season discussion either.

 

I'd imagine the same thing applies to Wade... with of course full considerations to all unpredictable nuance and circumstances that changes from month to month and year to year.

Wade is 25 I believe. They better not be worried about service time with him. He's in his prime.

[Otto von Ballpark]

Wade is 25 I believe. They better not be worried about service time with him. He's in his prime.

Wade is 24, but yeah. Earliest they could run out of options on him is age 27. Can't become a free agent until age 31.

[Riverbrian]

 

Wade is 24, but yeah. Earliest they could run out of options on him is age 27. Can't become a free agent until age 31.

 

College Boy... Sets up like Brian Dozier. 

[beckmt]

 

We better expect to contend in 2019 because our starting pitching depth will waste a solid year if we are not. 

 

I must not have explained myself correctly. 

 

What's a better middle infield for a team in contention? 

 

A. Polanco, Gordon, AAAA Guy

B. Escobar, Polanco, Gordon 

I am certainly in favor of signing Escobar within reason this offseason, he may even make more than Dozier, but I feel it is a better use of resources.  

My point is when do we go all in, instead of the half moves we have seen.  Or the alternative to me is when do the better players check out and decide to go elsewhere after their 6 years are up here unless the Twins sign them to an above market deal.  

[diehardtwinsfan]

Nick Gordon: I'm doing everything possible to not place him on the 40 man roster until he HAS TO go on the 40 man roster next year. I'm going to start him in the minors in 2019 and call him up when a middle infielder goes down with an injury which will happen but I am not rushing him up this year unless all other considerations are exhausted.

could be wrong, but I don't think Gordon gets the call unless the Twins decide to sell. I agree on the 40 man thing, no reason to bring him up just yet, especially with Polanco coming back in the not so distant future. But if they sell, no reason not to give him a trial run for a couple months in the fall after (presumably) trading Dozier.

[Major League Ready]

 

Odds are what the oddsmakers figure out how to extract your money and put it into their wallet.

 

Are you saying the odds calculated by people who are highly skilled and determining how likely a team is to make the playoffs is not a reasonable way to demonstrate how a neutral party would evaluate the Twins odds of winning the pennant as compared to other teams?

[Platoon]

I am not sure Nick Gordon has to "save" the Twins. He likely would not get the chance. That would require Molitor to play him to that extent. That's not likely. It also requires Sano to basically play 1B or DH, or DH Esxobar. That would put 3 sub EE level defenders on the field in front of him. Gordon is a problem to solve, but he is not as big a problem to solve as Sano. Can he hold up on the field, and remember how he used to hit? In a more general look at this I would be opportunity driven sellers at the deadline. This isn't a contending team in reality. They have no solution behind the plate. Dozier will leave anyway. Escobar could also, and would be a major loss. I can't see Mauer returning to even last years form. I was hoping this year was different. The pitching improvements should have done it. But Sano, Buxton, Dozier and the injuries pretty much blew that up. Add in sloppy uninspired play and it's 2017 again. A bitter battle to the end for a slim opportunity be eligible to get bounced in the first round.

[beckmt]

 

I am not sure Nick Gordon has to "save" the Twins. He likely would not get the chance. That would require Molitor to play him to that extent. That's not likely. It also requires Sano to basically play 1B or DH, or DH Esxobar. That would put 3 sub EE level defenders on the field in front of him. Gordon is a problem to solve, but he is not as big a problem to solve as Sano. Can he hold up on the field, and remember how he used to hit? In a more general look at this I would be opportunity driven sellers at the deadline. This isn't a contending team in reality. They have no solution behind the plate. Dozier will leave anyway. Escobar could also, and would be a major loss. I can't see Mauer returning to even last years form. I was hoping this year was different. The pitching improvements should have done it. But Sano, Buxton, Dozier and the injuries pretty much blew that up. Add in sloppy uninspired play and it's 2017 again. A bitter battle to the end for a slim opportunity be eligible to get bounced in the first round.

No battle there, we are too far out, catching Cleveland is the only hope.  Cleveland will fix their bullpen issues, so we need to be a lot closer to catch them.  Hope on, but do not see a good way forward.

[Riverbrian]

 

could be wrong, but I don't think Gordon gets the call unless the Twins decide to sell. I agree on the 40 man thing, no reason to bring him up just yet, especially with Polanco coming back in the not so distant future. But if they sell, no reason not to give him a trial run for a couple months in the fall after (presumably) trading Dozier.

 

And if they decide the sell... He's not a guy coming in on a white horse to save us. 

 

I'm Ok with him getting a taste... Ultimately... I'm simply more concerned with any notion that he opens 2019 as our Dozier replacement regardless of how he looks in the trial run. 

[alarp33]

 

Repair was the initial plan. It ended up being removal.

 

http://www.businessinsider.com/ap-twins-c-jason-castro-out-for-season-following-knee-surgery-2018-5

 

Maybe knees are equally important to other positions on the baseball field. I think they are pretty key to a catcher's viability. And without that cartilage, the wear and tear on the joint goes up by a lot.

 

With no medical expertise to back me up, my expectation is that we'll hear that his recovery is going according to plan, until time to really test the knee next spring, when we'll learn there's been a setback.

 

And so my view is to make other plans now. A stopgap solution is fine for 2018. A real solution must be achieved for 2019.

 

I'll welcome a healthy and productive Castro, if that happens. Always a good "problem" to have.

 

I've had 6 knee surgeries, all on my meniscus.  Most recently a repair in late October.  

 

- The article you quoted is wrong (a correct article is below).  The removal is the QUICK recovery, you could be back to full strength in 3 weeks.  A repair is the one that takes 3-4 months to recover from (this is what Adrian Peterson had his last season with Vikings).  

 

FWIW I'm not a world class athlete, and 3.5 months after my repair I was playing golf, jogging a couple of miles on the treadmill, etc. 

 

He will be 100% by October at the latest, I don't really see how his knee injury will have any effect on next season.  

 

https://www.twincities.com/2018/05/16/twins-lose-jason-castro-for-the-season-after-knee-surgery/

 

 

[Vanimal46]

And if they decide the sell... He's not a guy coming in on a white horse to save us.

 

I'm Ok with him getting a taste... Ultimately... I'm simply more concerned with any notion that he opens 2019 as our Dozier replacement regardless of how he looks in the trial run.

I share the same concern. How many times do we have to be burned by the upcoming hot shot prospect without a backup plan? I'd rather he be the backup plan if the established veteran doesn't work out.

[Richie the Rally Goat]

I've had 6 knee surgeries, all on my meniscus. Most recently a repair in late October.

 

- The article you quoted is wrong (a correct article is below). The removal is the QUICK recovery, you could be back to full strength in 3 weeks. A repair is the one that takes 3-4 months to recover from (this is what Adrian Peterson had his last season with Vikings).

 

FWIW I'm not a world class athlete, and 3.5 months after my repair I was playing golf, jogging a couple of miles on the treadmill, etc.

 

He will be 100% by October at the latest, I don't really see how his knee injury will have any effect on next season.

 

https://www.twincities.com/2018/05/16/twins-lose-jason-castro-for-the-season-after-knee-surgery/

The earlier post by Ash mischaracterized the surgeries. It was partial meniscectomy or total.

 

Partial has a much better prognosis with higher likelihood of recovery without setback.

 

Castro went in thinking it would be partial, but required total.

 

I share the concern, and feel strongly Castro should be the plan for backup duty in ‘19

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/908700/

[alarp33]

 

The earlier post mischaracterized the surgeries. It was partial meniscectomy or total.

Partial has a much better prognosis with higher likelihood of recovery without setback.

Castro went in thinking it would be partial, but required full.

I share the concern, and feel strongly Castro should be the plan for backup duty in ‘19

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/908700/

 

Again, he did not have a meniscectomy.  That is the removal of torn mensicus.  He had his mensiscus repaired which is much better for long term health but comes with a longer recovery time. 

 

Rather than remove a portion of the torn meniscus in Castro’s knee, as magnetic resonance imaging exams had suggested, Dr. Robert LaPrade of The Steadman Clinic went ahead and did a full repair of the meniscus. Castro will have a rehabilitation period of five to six months.

“The tear was a little bit more significant,” Twins manager Paul Molitor said. “They decided to try to keep what he had left. They thought that was the best course of action for him as far as prolonging his career and productivity.”

[Major League Ready]

 

While I agree that selling is likely going to be the answer (at least if they continue playing this way, not for the reasons you state), why exactly wouldn't they use redundant pieces to get a guy like Realmuto, who has 2.5 more years of control and a potential QO to add a 3rd? Why wouldn't they potentially pick up another above average SP/RP with some team control?

The problem with not using those premium assets to get better on the field is the other side to this board room discussion. I don't think any board would be happy with a consistent sub-standard product that no one buys either. There's a tradeoff. You're right that their success in the next few years largely hinges on the success of Buxton and Sano. That doesn't mean you shouldn't acquire better pieces to go around them.

 

Anyone would agree to Realmuto for redundant pieces in nanosecond. Perhaps I am way off in what it would take to acquire him.  I thought it had been established that the Marlins are looking for a haul if they trade him and we have the LuCroy trade as somewhat indicative of Realmuto's value. With an extra year of control he is worth considerably more that LuCroy. Am I wrong thinking it's going to take a lot more than "redundant pieces"? I assumed they would be holding out for pitching so Romero would be at the top of their list. If not Romeroe, than Gonsalves or Graterol plus another top position player prospect and someone like Diaz or Jay.

 

Remember when many here were clamoring for LuCroy and were willing to give up top prospects. What would that have done to our present and future? I would look into the cost somewhere around July 20th if the Twins can improve in the many areas necessary to be considered a legit contender.

[ashbury]

I've had 6 knee surgeries, all on my meniscus.  Most recently a repair in late October.  

 

- The article you quoted is wrong (a correct article is below).  The removal is the QUICK recovery, you could be back to full strength in 3 weeks.  A repair is the one that takes 3-4 months to recover from (this is what Adrian Peterson had his last season with Vikings).  

 

FWIW I'm not a world class athlete, and 3.5 months after my repair I was playing golf, jogging a couple of miles on the treadmill, etc. 

 

He will be 100% by October at the latest, I don't really see how his knee injury will have any effect on next season.  

 

https://www.twincities.com/2018/05/16/twins-lose-jason-castro-for-the-season-after-knee-surgery/

Thank you for the other article. I find it interesting that two writers on the same day took approximately the same starting point (damage worse than initially thought) and interpreted the surgical information so differently.

 

I hope Castro's outcome is as favorable as yours. Even with Berardino's take, I am not so optimistic. My daughter also had meniscus repair after a skiing mishap, and it's never been quite right since. Perhaps only our resident medical expert, Heezy1323, would have a chance at discerning the differences between your, and her, and Castro's respective surgeries, except he's working without MRI to compare.

[jorgenswest]

Let’s assume Castro fully recovers.

 

He still is in decline with the bat and glove as he hits 32. He doesn’t have space to decline from his prime and still be a starting catcher. From ages 28-30 his slash is 221/308/377. It isn’t reasonable to expect a hitter at 32 to match the average of his 28-30 seasons.

 

The Twins need a starter for 2019. I am hoping Garver’s performance this year earns him that role.

[alarp33]

 

Thank you for the other article. I find it interesting that two writers on the same day took approximately the same starting point (damage worse than initially thought) and interpreted the surgical information so differently.

 

I hope Castro's outcome is as favorable as yours. Even with Berardino's take, I am not so optimistic. My daughter also had meniscus repair after a skiing mishap, and it's never been quite right since. Perhaps only our resident medical expert, Heezy1323, would have a chance at discerning the differences between your, and her, and Castro's respective surgeries, except he's working without MRI to compare.

 

Yeah, I mean I have no idea what is going on with his specific knee.  I am just speaking from experience with my own - admittedly not an MLB catcher.  The repair is GOOD news for his long term health, bad news for the 2018 Twins since it took him out for the season.  

 

He may not be able to be fully counted on in 2019, but I would argue that has more to do with his skill set and age than his physical health.  But he will be healthy and ready to go in Spring Training, and at $8 million, at minimum playing in a part time role for the 2019 Twins. 

[Squirrel]

I share the same concern. How many times do we have to be burned by the upcoming hot shot prospect without a backup plan? I'd rather he be the backup plan if the established veteran doesn't work out.

I think Gordon needs to be up and playing not to save us but to find out if we need a back up plan for next year and what kind. I don’t want to let Dozier go and then find out what we have is inadequate. That’s how we get burned because we wait too long to find out what we have doesn’t cut it. I want Gordon up getting his feet wet and getting major league experience so he knows what will be expected and what to work on this off season and so we can find out if he’ll be adequate as either a starter or a back up. We don’t know either right now.

 

And how is our established veteran Dozier doing so far this year?

 

This season isn’t lost ... yet ... but I want Gordon up and getting reps as soon as it is so we have an idea of what we need to do this off season ... re-sign Dozier or let him walk.

[Richie the Rally Goat]

Again, he did not have a meniscectomy. That is the removal of torn mensicus. He had his mensiscus repaired which is much better for long term health but comes with a longer recovery time.

 

Rather than remove a portion of the torn meniscus in Castro’s knee, as magnetic resonance imaging exams had suggested, Dr. Robert LaPrade of The Steadman Clinic went ahead and did a full repair of the meniscus. Castro will have a rehabilitation period of five to six months.

“The tear was a little bit more significant,” Twins manager Paul Molitor said. “They decided to try to keep what he had left. They thought that was the best course of action for him as far as prolonging his career and productivity.”

I got wrong too, but my stance hasn’t changed.

 

Per the article, repair has the best long term health prognosis but has a higher rate of short term issues. With the luck the Twins have had lately, he’ll have a setback.

 

https://www.arthroscopyjournal.org/article/S0749-8063(11)00412-9/abstract

[jorgenswest]

I hope the Twins don’t need to call Gordon up to find out what they have in him. They see him every day. The see his command of the strike zone and should be able to identify the holes major league pitchers will exploit. They see his play at shortstop and better be able to determine whether that will work at the major league level.

 

If Gordon were to struggle like many or do well like Danny Santana it shouldn’t really tell them more long term than they already see if the minors.

[Squirrel]

 

I hope the Twins don’t need to call Gordon up to find out what they have in him. They see him every day. The see his command of the strike zone and should be able to identify the holes major league pitchers will exploit. They see his play at shortstop and better be able to determine whether that will work at the major league level.

If Gordon were to struggle like many or do well like Danny Santana it shouldn’t really tell them more long term than they already see if the minors.

I really disagree. There is a jump to be made from AAA to major leagues and some get stuck in the AAAA category. I think there have been 'can't miss' prospects who have missed, and 'so so' prospects who didn't. Prospects, until they are major leaguers are still a crap shoot, to some extent. While I think they do have an idea of what they have in Gordon, I still want him up and getting his feet wet before we decide on Dozier. I want to see how he makes the transition. I don't want to find out next year, after we've let Dozier and/or Escobar walk, that Gordon can't make that final jump or needs a year to adjust. Get him up now so we know how to proceed in the off season. Again ... I think we can wait a month ... but I think he needs to be up before September call ups.

[Vanimal46]

I think Gordon needs to be up and playing not to save us but to find out if we need a back up plan for next year and what kind. I don’t want to let Dozier go and then find out what we have is inadequate. That’s how we get burned because we wait too long to find out what we have doesn’t cut it. I want Gordon up getting his feet wet and getting major league experience so he knows what will be expected and what to work on this off season and so we can find out if he’ll be adequate as either a starter or a back up. We don’t know either right now.

 

And how is our established veteran Dozier doing so far this year?

 

This season isn’t lost ... yet ... but I want Gordon up and getting reps as soon as it is so we have an idea of what we need to do this off season ... re-sign Dozier or let him walk.

I don't mind Gordon getting his feet wet. But are we going to know one way or the other if he's going to be a full time starter from 250 PAs? I think we would need an established veteran regardless if he bats .350 or .050 in those 250 PAs this season.

 

As far as Dozier, I still believe the 2nd half binge is coming. And his numbers at the end of the year will look similar to the last 2 seasons.

[Doctor Wu]

 

Twins are on pace for a 68-94 season and a top 7 pick. They're 6.5 games out of first and 10 GB of the wild card. And it's only June 1st.

Ugh, what a sobering realization that is. Me thinks it's time to crack open another beer and contemplate the meaning of life once again.

[Mike Sixel]

I hope the Twins don’t need to call Gordon up to find out what they have in him. They see him every day. The see his command of the strike zone and should be able to identify the holes major league pitchers will exploit. They see his play at shortstop and better be able to determine whether that will work at the major league level.

 

If Gordon were to struggle like many or do well like Danny Santana it shouldn’t really tell them more long term than they already see if the minors.

So we knew Buxton would be a bad hitter so far based on his minor league performance? It just doesn't work that way.

[gocgo]

Stop! Stop! Stop!  Please stop all the ridiculous trade talk.  Trade Dozier you say...think back a year.  Dozier was having an OK first half and what were we offered for him?  Nothing worth trading for.  What would make you think that we should trade him this year?  What would make you think...using your brain rather than your emotions...that anyone would give us anything for him this year?  He's having a bad year and you think we will get something of value for him.  Why?  There is a better chance of him catching fire again and having a fantastic 2nd half and leading us to the playoffs than there is of him getting us anything of any value at the trade deadline.  So please, take off your GM hat...it doesn't fit you and looks bad on you anyway.

[yarnivek1972]

Playoffs? Are you kidding me?!

 

PLAYOFFS?!!

[Mike Sixel]

 

Stop! Stop! Stop!  Please stop all the ridiculous trade talk.  Trade Dozier you say...think back a year.  Dozier was having an OK first half and what were we offered for him?  Nothing worth trading for.  What would make you think that we should trade him this year?  What would make you think...using your brain rather than your emotions...that anyone would give us anything for him this year?  He's having a bad year and you think we will get something of value for him.  Why?  There is a better chance of him catching fire again and having a fantastic 2nd half and leading us to the playoffs than there is of him getting us anything of any value at the trade deadline.  So please, take off your GM hat...it doesn't fit you and looks bad on you anyway.

 

weird, I thought this was a site to discuss baseball. 

 

I do agree, they won't get much for Dozier right now....