Hughes to the DL

[DaveW]

Asking Hughes to retire is absurd.

 

It's not gonna happen. Hopefully he can come back strong, hopefully just a bit of fatigue?

[spanman2]

 

No hurry he is signed for two more years after this year. Plenty of time to rest and rehab!

An unfortunate IALTO.

[Doomtints]

Phil Hughes ERA+ 71, 72 last year. Frequent injuries to his bread & butter arm. If he is wise he will face the music and walk away from the game honorably.

[Doomtints]

 

No it isn't. He signed a contract and is entitled to that money. The Pohlads can afford it.

 

So you want a guy on the Twins roster whose ERA will probably be north of 6 for the rest of his career?

A-Rod, is that you?

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

Hopefully he can come back strong, hopefully just a bit of fatigue?

Doesn't look like fatigue.  His 2017 results look a lot like his 2015-2016 results.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

I'd give Wilk a couple starts. You never know. Maybe they have something with him.

Same thing was said about Pat Dean last year, and basically every other guy who survived his first mop-up appearance.  No thanks on Wilk.

[zenser]

Should have signed Fister when he was available.

[Vanimal46]

Meh, Fister is just an 87 MPH pitch to contact guy... Only reason he's signed is the Angels are more desperate for pitching than the Twins. 

[KirbyDome89]

Why the **** would he retire and give up the remaining years on his contract? I take it we don't have a lot of financial advisors on this board. 

[jud6312]

 

I'm happy with Duffey right where he is. I'd give Wilk a couple starts. You never know. Maybe they have something with him.

I was right in step with you for the first sentence. You lost me after that.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

Why the **** would he retire and give up the remaining years on his contract?

I don't believe Hughes should feel compelled to retire.  But it's possible that he may want to, if the alternative is more surgeries and rehab programs.  I recall that was the decision that Gil Meche faced, when he notably walked away.

 

More commonly, of course, the pitcher tries to finish his deal, but Hughes may run out of things to try soon.

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

I don't believe Hughes should feel compelled to retire.  But it's possible that he may want to, if the alternative is more surgeries and rehab programs.  I recall that was the decision that Gil Meche faced, when he notably walked away.

 

More commonly, of course, the pitcher tries to finish his deal, but Hughes may run out of things to try soon.

Hughes has made $54m in his career. He shouldn't feel obligated to retire but he may feel that's enough money and rehab isn't worth the frustration.

 

We're not talking about a fourth year player here. Phil Hughes is already filthy rich. He may want the rest of that contract and that's his right as a player in MLB. He may also feel that he has enough money and just quit.

[ashbury]

Doesn't look like fatigue.  His 2017 results look a lot like his 2015-2016 results.

It's not especially relevant to anything, but his rate stats this year and last are remarkably similar.

 

2016 2017

5.95 5.74 ERA

1.508 1.511 WHIP

1.7 1.9 HR/9

5.2 5.7 SO/9

 

If rest does not help, this may be the Phil Hughes we have, going forward.

[jud6312]

I was hoping Gibson would get more than a couple of AAA starts under his belt before he was needed again, but they're running short of options already.

 

Going forward (barring injury, of course) I hope they stick with Santana, Santiago, Berrios and Mejia for 1-4 - it's a nice mix of veteran "stability" and young upside.

 

For the 5th spot, hopefully something clicked in that brief demotion for Gibson and he becomes at least a serviceable back-of-the-rotation arm for the rest of the year.

 

If he's not, and since guys like Gonsalves, Jorge and Romero aren't yet ready, I'd be more interested in seeing guys like Sleggers and Turley get a shot. I've seen enough of Nick Tepesch to know I don't want to see any more, and I feel the Hurlbut/WIlk/Wheeler trio is simply Albers/Dean/Milone 2.0.

 

Here's to the health of that first wave, because the ripples that follow could lead to another long summer.

[KirbyDome89]

 

I don't believe Hughes should feel compelled to retire.  But it's possible that he may want to, if the alternative is more surgeries and rehab programs.  I recall that was the decision that Gil Meche faced, when he notably walked away.

 

More commonly, of course, the pitcher tries to finish his deal, but Hughes may run out of things to try soon.

That was more in response to the "He should," crowd. Sure, it's possible, and don't get me wrong, if he approaches the Twins about it they should take the money and run. That said, I have a hard time seeing a guy who isn't even 31 yet walking away from 26.5 million. Regardless of how much money he has made in his career that is a ton of money to walk away from.  

[laloesch]

 

I was hoping Gibson would get more than a couple of AAA starts under his belt before he was needed again, but they're running short of options already.

 

Going forward (barring injury, of course) I hope they stick with Santana, Santiago, Berrios and Mejia for 1-4 - it's a nice mix of veteran "stability" and young upside.

 

For the 5th spot, hopefully something clicked in that brief demotion for Gibson and he becomes at least a serviceable back-of-the-rotation arm for the rest of the year.

 

If he's not, and since guys like Gonsalves, Jorge and Romero aren't yet ready, I'd be more interested in seeing guys like Sleggers and Turley get a shot. I've seen enough of Nick Tepesch to know I don't want to see any more, and I feel the Hurlbut/WIlk/Wheeler trio is simply Albers/Dean/Milone 2.0.

 

Here's to the health of that first wave, because the ripples that follow could lead to another long summer.

 

This might be the beginning of the end for Hughes.  The fact that he has to hit the DL this soon after coming back from injury is a major red flag.  Will see how Gibson reacts in this start, but if he continues to falter it might be time to move on a see if Slegers can handle the biggs.

[prouster]

 

So you want a guy on the Twins roster whose ERA will probably be north of 6 for the rest of his career?

A-Rod, is that you?

 

Every team knows going into every contract that injury is a risk. The amount of money teams make off their players' labor compared to what the players earn in compensation for that labor makes it very difficult to feel bad for the Pohlads. They can afford it.

 

At any rate, a comparison to A-Rod is loony. Hughes is owed about $26 million over the next two years. The Yankees would have needed to pay about three times that amount if they didn't negotiate a way out with A-Rod. As well, my quick and dirty math says that Hughes has been worth (conservatively) about $56 million as a Twin. That's valuing one fWAR at $8 million, which is too low going forward. Between the original contract and the extension, Hughes will have earned a hair over $67 million as a Twin. That's about $11 million lost to injury, assuming he doesn't contribute anything in the future. Ideal? Absolutely not. A-Rod? Absolutely not. Will $11 million prevent the Twins from signing free agents and/or extending their younger players? Absolutely not.

[Taildragger8791]

 

That was more in response to the "He should," crowd. Sure, it's possible, and don't get me wrong, if he approaches the Twins about it they should take the money and run. That said, I have a hard time seeing a guy who isn't even 31 yet walking away from 26.5 million. Regardless of how much money he has made in his career that is a ton of money to walk away from.  

 

He doesn't have a legal nor moral obligation to give up the money. But he should retire for his own good if the prognosis is that the next 2 1/2 years are likely to be an endless cycle of surgeries and rehab with little chance of ever being an effective ballplayer again. He should go for the buyout first if the team will negotiate. But at some point there is a diminishing return to more money when it's at the expense of health and future ability to enjoy the fruits of that hard work. Why push it to the absolute limit? Take the money you've made and move onto the next phase of your life. You can always start new ventures or investments to make more money, but you can't rebuild a used-up body (yet).

[twins_89]

 

I don't believe Hughes should feel compelled to retire.  But it's possible that he may want to, if the alternative is more surgeries and rehab programs.  I recall that was the decision that Gil Meche faced, when he notably walked away.

 

More commonly, of course, the pitcher tries to finish his deal, but Hughes may run out of things to try soon.

 

I suspect that Hughes may want to retire, either now or in the near future when it becomes clear he isn't going to be able to pitch successfully at the major league level anymore. With that said, there is literally no chance that he walks away from the money the Twins owe him. He'll continue to try to get by as junk baller with frequent DL stints until Minnesota decides that the only option is to release him (probably sometime next season if there isn't a remarkable turnaround).

[jimbo92107]

 

Time to stretch out Duffey.  I don't need to see any more Nick Tepesch starts.

The Twins can backfill the bullpen a lot easier than they can promote starting pitchers right now. Gonsalves is coming off injury. Stewart and Jorge both have ERA's north of 4, in AA. Hurlbut or Slegers might be possible. 

 

Meanwhile, the system offers at least a few good bullpen candidates, but maybe one of the best options would be to bring back Gibson to the pen, and try starting Duffey again. Relief work seems to have helped Duffey improve specific areas of his game, especially his effectiveness against righties. Maybe the same could happen for Gibson, whose 'stuff' has never been in doubt, but whose approach seems somehow lacking. 

[Ben Noble]

I was surprised and disappointed when Hughes didn't start the season on the DL. But as much as I wanted to see Berrios join Mejia in the rotation opening day, the FO obviously didn't feel the same way.

 

As poorly as Hughes has pitched overall, he's had a few good starts that I doubt Tepesch turns in if Hughes is on the DL opening day and the FO decides Tepesch takes Hughes spot in the rotation to start the season.

[Brandon]

Hughes arm felt dead meaning no umph to his pitching. I think some time off could help. He's close to 50 innings after being out most of last year. Could just be too much too soon for him.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

Hughes arm felt dead meaning no umph to his pitching. I think some time off could help. He's close to 50 innings after being out most of last year. Could just be too much too soon for him.

But his rate stats are pretty much exactly the same for 2017 as 2016.  (And not far off from 2015 either.)

 

Which suggests this is possibly the new health/performance norm for Hughes.

[yarnivek1972]

 

I was surprised and disappointed when Hughes didn't start the season on the DL. But as much as I wanted to see Berrios join Mejia in the rotation opening day, the FO obviously didn't feel the same way.

 

As poorly as Hughes has pitched overall, he's had a few good starts that I doubt Tepesch turns in if Hughes is on the DL opening day and the FO decides Tepesch takes Hughes spot in the rotation to start the season.

 

 

If Hughes had started the year on the DL - or more accurately if it looked in ST that it was likely he would - Duffey most likely would have been in the rotation.

[Guest]

Gibson, Slegers, Tepesch, Turley, Jake Peavy, Colby Lewis, C.J. Wilson, Gonsalves, Duffey, Wilk.

 

Or trade Dozier and backfill with Escobar, Adrianza, Gordon or Vielma.

[Ben Noble]

 

If Hughes had started the year on the DL - or more accurately if it looked in ST that it was likely he would - Duffey most likely would have been in the rotation.

 

You're probably right...that said, the FO has come off as pretty intentional when it comes to how they view specific players, and if they see Duffey as best suited for the BP/likely to fail as a starter, I could see them keeping him in the pen no matter who it meant putting in the rotation until they viewed Berrios as ready. Not saying that's what I would do, but I could see the FO handling it like that.

 

Duffey in the pen vs Duffey in the rotation has been argued enough times in enough other places...I'm still glad Hughes was able to make the starts he was, because the alternative could've been a lot worse.

[TheLeviathan]

 

The Twins can backfill the bullpen a lot easier than they can promote starting pitchers right now. Gonsalves is coming off injury. Stewart and Jorge both have ERA's north of 4, in AA. Hurlbut or Slegers might be possible. 

 

Meanwhile, the system offers at least a few good bullpen candidates, but maybe one of the best options would be to bring back Gibson to the pen, and try starting Duffey again. Relief work seems to have helped Duffey improve specific areas of his game, especially his effectiveness against righties. Maybe the same could happen for Gibson, whose 'stuff' has never been in doubt, but whose approach seems somehow lacking. 

 

You make a lot of excellent points.  Moving Duffey comes down to a numbers game at this point, we simply don't have enough numbers of capable major league starters for him to continue to be used in low-leverage bullpen situations.

[yarnivek1972]

You make a lot of excellent points. Moving Duffey comes down to a numbers game at this point, we simply don't have enough numbers of capable major league starters for him to continue to be used in low-leverage bullpen situations.

Of course, that isn't how he is being used. Someone posted numbers the other day showing Duffy was being used in high leverage situations, moreso than any Twins reliever, including Kintzler.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

Of course, that isn't how he is being used. Someone posted numbers the other day showing Duffy was being used in high leverage situations, moreso than any Twins reliever, including Kintzler.

That was an optimistic mischaracterization.  Duffey is only 4th on the team in average game-entering leverage index, behind not only Kintzler, but also Belisle and Rogers.  7 of his 14 appearances have come with the team trailing.

 

I wouldn't exactly call it "low leverage" but they're not really leveraging Duffey to any great degree.  If they can promote an effective reliever from the minors (Burdi?), and someone like Pressly earns some trust back, that would pretty much cover Duffey's contributions in the pen.

[Thrylos]

 

Time to stretch out Duffey.

 

That's one of the worst things that can happen for the Twins.  They tooked a failed starter and turned him into a decent reliever.  No reason to go back there again.

 

I think that it is time for Gibson to show that he can step up.