Alex Meyer

[DaveW]

 

Another shakier outing vs the Yankees: 4.2 IP, 5 H, 5 BB, 5 K. Although only 2 runs charged to Meyer (helped by a reliever who stranded 2 inherited runners to end the 5th). All 5 hits he allowed were singles.

Meyer struck out the mighty Aaron Judge twice before walking him in his final inning (Judge later homered off an Angels reliever).

Yankees are a tough out for anyone these days, and I think this outing shows us what Meyer currently is: A #4

He may be able to develop into more than that, but needs to cut down on the walks big time!

[Parker Hageman]

The Angels had Alex Meyer go from the standard windup to the modified stretch that we've seen so many tall pitchers do in the last few years. Keeps the moving parts under control and driving everything north-south inside of east-west.

 

https://twitter.com/ParkerHageman/status/870707265635983360

[Brandon Warne]

I might be the only one, but I'm still not losing sleep over this. He's only starting for the Angels because they have so many guys hurt. With his walk rate, it sure seems like his future is in the bullpen. Can he help them there? Maybe. 

[Taildragger8791]

 

He may be able to develop into more than that, but needs to cut down on the walks big time!

 

Exactly what everyone has said about him his entire career. Going on several years now that he hasn't really made any significant progress that has ever stuck. I wish he could figure it out, because he'd be a hell of a lot of fun to watch otherwise.

[Shaitan]

 

I might be the only one, but I'm still not losing sleep over this. He's only starting for the Angels because they have so many guys hurt. With his walk rate, it sure seems like his future is in the bullpen. Can he help them there? Maybe. 

I see posters say this a lot. Walks hurt at any point in the game, but I feel like control is even more essential late in the game.

[Steve Lein]

 

I see posters say this a lot. Walks hurt at any point in the game, but I feel like control is even more essential late in the game.

 

If you have the ability for a high strikeout rate to offset it, you can still be a very effective reliever. 

 

Meyer would still need to improve that, though.

[Rosterman]

Maybe the Angels will trade him to the A's for Trevor Plouffe?

 

[Mike Sixel]

 

Maybe the Angels will trade him to the A's for Trevor Plouffe?

 

I believe Plouffe was just cut...

[Dr. Evil]

Yeah Meyer, Hicks etc shows a real lack of patience with prospects/youngsters. It's bad enough when that happens, but on a rebuilding team? That is inexcusable.

Hicks and Meyer were both a mess when they were here. If they were still here they would maybe still be messes. There's way more to it than patience.

[Brandon Warne]

 

I see posters say this a lot. Walks hurt at any point in the game, but I feel like control is even more essential late in the game.

 

I see that issue as two-fold. In fewer inning bursts, it's possible that it crops up less. To your point, however...yes, that would prevent him from working later innings, which is all the more reason not to wring our hands about it, I guess?

[Otto von Ballpark]

Saturday night vs the Royals: 6 IP, 2 H, 0 R, 1 BB, 9 K, 94 pitches (62 strikes)

[The Wise One]

 

Saturday night vs the Royals: 6 IP, 2 H, 0 R, 1 BB, 9 K, 94 pitches (62 strikes)

Against  one of the weaker offenses in the league playing their backups about all Meyer needed to do was throw it towards the center of the plate

[The Wise One]

 

Hicks and Meyer were both a mess when they were here. If they were still here they would maybe still be messes. There's way more to it than patience.

Multiple causes for situations.

 

Aaron Hicks had almost 1000 PA as a Twin   I guess that was not not enough.  Should have had  more. 

 

Some players do not work with some coaches. Bruno screwed up Hicks. It took a few off seasons and a year for Hicks to figure things out, after bouncing around with the Twins for  3 years. Other factors for Hicks doing well  might include Hicks benefiting from being in a better lineup. Many different factors, No the only reality is the Twins were not patient enough. 

 

The patience if played out as some would it with other players . With the Patient Dave approach  Arcia still should be in the outfield here because he is going to hit someday. Liriano should still be starting here. The turnaround with the Pirates had nothing to do with coaching, see his results in Toronto. Valencia, Hendriks.  So many the Twins were not patient enough with. Every 3 years when Worley pitch well in Dave world there should be an outcry  of the ineptitude of the FO that let him go      . 

 

[Otto von Ballpark]

Against one of the weaker offenses in the league playing their backups about all Meyer needed to do was throw it towards the center of the plate

The Royals have problems for sure, but entering last night they had won 6 in a row, 5 times scoring 7 or more runs. They were also 5-0 vs the Angels on the season. I am sure the Angels appreciated this pitching performance.

 

(The Royals also had 5 straight guys in their lineup with 100 OPS+ or better on the season.)

[HitInAPinch]

Fair warning to DaveW:  this may make your head explode:

 

From RotoWorld:

 

"Alex Meyer allowed two hits with a walk over six scoreless innings with nine strikeouts in a win against the Royals on Saturday.

 

Meyer evened his record at 3-3 after the quality start. He has three quality starts over four June outings, lowering his ERA from 5.79 to 3.52 just since May 20. Meyer has also rolled up 19 strikeouts over the past 16 2/3 innings, although he is still a risky play in most mixed formats. Jun 18 - 12:54 AM"

 

Apparently, a better curveball is making a difference. 

 

http://www.gifimagesdownload.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/best-head-explode-gif-511.gif

[Riverbrian]

I am not talking about everyone on Twinsdaily but we had quite a few TD posters passionately asking to get rid of Nolasco. 

 

Rob Antony did just that. 

 

Ricky Nolasco and 4 million in cash for Hector Santiago 

 

Nolasco finished with better numbers in 2016 and Nolasco has better numbers so far in 2017. So it looks like we got less immediate MLB Pitcher. 

 

Both will be free agents next year assuming that the Angels buy out Nolasco's contract for 1 million. 

 

I'm guessing that Nolasco will be paid around 18 million by the Angels since the trade and I'm guessing that the Twins will pay Santiago around 10 Million. The Twins also kicked in 4 million in cash which makes means there was no payroll increase or decrease. It was a money neutral trade. 

 

Basically... It doesn't matter... Neither Nolasco or Santiago have performed well enough to declare a winner even if Nolasco has been a little better.  Neither pitcher should be making anyone happy right now.

 

 

We could have saved 8 million by not signing Santiago but once we signed him... The money in the deal was neutral.

 

 

 

So we traded Alex Meyer for Alan Busenitz and took a small step back in immediate MLB performance in order to do so.

 

Now how does everyone feel?  

 

 

 

 

[Squirrel]

 

I am not talking about everyone on Twinsdaily but we had quite a few TD posters passionately asking to get rid of Nolasco. 

 

Rob Antony did just that. 

 

Ricky Nolasco and 4 million in cash for Hector Santiago 

 

Nolasco finished with better numbers in 2016 and Nolasco has better numbers so far in 2017. So it's look like we got less immediate MLB Pitcher. 

 

Both will be free agents next year assuming that the Angels buy out Nolasco's contract for 1 million. 

 

I'm guessing that Nolasco will be paid around 18 million by the Angels since the trade and I'm guessing that the Twins will pay Santiago around 10 Million. The Twins also kicked in 4 million in cash which makes means there was no payroll increase or decrease. It was a money neutral trade. 

 

Basically... It doesn't matter... Neither Nolasco or Santiago have performed well enough to declare a winner even if Nolasco has been a little better.  Neither pitcher should be making anyone happy right now.

 

 

We could have saved 8 million by not signing Santiago but once we signed him... The money in the deal was neutral.

 

 

 

So we traded Alex Meyer for Alan Busenitz and took a small step back in immediate MLB performance in order to do so.

 

Now how does everyone feel?  

Yep ... case of ... be careful what you wish for.

[KirbyDome89]

 

Nolasco finished with better numbers in 2016 and Nolasco has better numbers so far in 2017. So it's look like we got less immediate MLB Pitcher. 

 

Both will be free agents next year assuming that the Angels buy out Nolasco's contract for 1 million. 

 

Neither pitcher should be making anyone happy right now.

 

The money in the deal was neutral.

 

So we traded Alex Meyer for Alan Busenitz and took a small step back in immediate MLB performance in order to do so.

 

Now how does everyone feel?  

The same way I felt when the trade was announced. They traded a bad pitcher for one who was supposed to be slightly less bad. I was all for that move. The issue I had was that they gave up a guy who before the Twins got a hold of him was a top pitching prospect in order for the Angels to agree to a cash neutral deal. 

 

Hoping the Twins would move on from Nolasco didn't mean I wanted them to give away pitching talent to make it happen.  

[The Wise One]

 

The Royals have problems for sure, but entering last night they had won 6 in a row, 5 times scoring 7 or more runs. They were also 5-0 vs the Angels on the season. I am sure the Angels appreciated this pitching performance.

(The Royals also had 5 straight guys in their lineup with 100 OPS+ or better on the season.)

OPS + of 100 means they are league average for their position. So what.  They have only one batter that has a wpa of any significance.  Now wpa measures batting contributions towards winning. Why is OPS+ a better stat than that?

[jimbo92107]

 

Against  one of the weaker offenses in the league playing their backups about all Meyer needed to do was throw it towards the center of the plate

I watched all the innings Alex Meyer pitched. He's legit. He keeps his mid- to upper-90's fastball knee high, with movement. His curve ball is a vicious 85 mph vertical drop that's harder to hit than his fastball. The few hits off him came from hitters that guessed fastball and got lucky. Plus, as the announcers said, it's not just his stuff that's difficult, it's that his release point is a couple feet closer to the plate than most pitchers, which makes it even tougher. 

 

Meyer has also improved holding runners, tho Cain managed to steal 2nd on him, but with far more difficulty. Make no mistake, Alex Meyer is a front line starter. Too bad the Twins didn't think of having him pound the glove. 

[The Wise One]

 

I watched all the innings Alex Meyer pitched. He's legit. He keeps his mid- to upper-90's fastball knee high, with movement. His curve ball is a vicious 85 mph vertical drop that's harder to hit than his fastball. The few hits off him came from hitters that guessed fastball and got lucky. Plus, as the announcers said, it's not just his stuff that's difficult, it's that his release point is a couple feet closer to the plate than most pitchers, which makes it even tougher. 

 

Meyer has also improved holding runners, tho Cain managed to steal 2nd on him, but with far more difficulty. Make no mistake, Alex Meyer is a front line starter. Too bad the Twins didn't think of having him pound the glove. 

Pound a glove so you can pitch with command.  Sounds like a winner.

[Platoon]

I had no problem with getting rid of Nolasco. He wasn't good here, and based on a few comments he made, did not seem like he had any intention of trying to be good here. Add in the fact he had no discernible upside it was a meh deal. Meyer was a different matter. A key piece of an earlier trade, a much needed velocity arm with miss the bats talent. Tall pitchers seem to mature later. There was something to wait for there. It's not like the MLB roster was loaded with studs. I don't know if he will completely figure it out or not. But if he does, someone has a very good pitcher. We were not the orginisation to toss him. It's not like he was at the bottom of a long list of high end prospects. As for the money involved. That's horse bleep. It would only matter if your payroll was so high it strained your resources and impeded further movement. I doubt we have reached that point.

[Riverbrian]

 

I am all hindsight on this thing now and I think its justified considering the need.  I gave them the benefit of the doubt when the trade happened. 

 

His metrics were usually sub par. 

 

Was he hurt? 

He was out of options... did they feel they had no room for him? 

Was he hopelessly not correctable in their opinion? 

 

In consideration of our starting pitching situation.

 

This was one of those trades where they had to be right. 

 

Alex Meyer absolutely could not turn into anything resembling successful. 

 

 

[nicksaviking]

The last crew made lots of mistakes and I used to be a huge Meyer backer, but I was ready to give up last year, partly because I'd seen enough and thought the odds of a turn around were to the point of unrealistic expectations and partly because Paul Molitor had been making it pretty clear that he was never going to give Meyer a legit shot if he was on the roster.

 

But it looks like the unrealistic expectations might actually be plausible and now with the state of the pitching staff, Molitor would have had no choice but to give Meyer the ball every 5th day and leave him in as long as possible.

 

So Anthony was wrong, though so was I. I'm not going to let it taint my hope that Busenitz can become a high leverage reliever though. Despite the homer, he looks like he can stick.

 

And one thing of note, the Angles have all but scrapped Meyer's changeup, making him a two pitch pitcher. It seems to have worked, and perhaps the Twins should have thought to do it. However there's a pretty high chance that means this is still a house of cards ready to collapse similar to Tyler Duffey, putting Meyer in the pen where so many predicted he'd be all along.

[markos]

 

I am all hindsight on this thing now and I think its justified considering the need.  I gave them the benefit of the doubt when the trade happened. 

 

His metrics were usually sub par. 

 

Was he hurt? 

He was out of options... did they feel they had no room for him? 

Was he hopelessly not correctable in their opinion? 

 

In consideration of our starting pitching situation.

 

This was one of those trades where they had to be right. 

 

Alex Meyer absolutely could not turn into anything resembling successful. 

I'm sure this was mentioned by someone at the time (I only put this together for the first time today), but who authorized the trading of Meyer in the first place? Antony, right? Ryan was already gone at that point. Meyer's future with the Twins organization seems like exactly the type of thing that should have been left to the new regime. He was a very high-risk, high-reward asset who was kind of at a crossroads. But there was nothing forcing the issue. Trading Meyer seems even more reckless from that perspective.

[markos]

 

And one thing of note, the Angles have all but scrapped Meyer's changeup, making him a two pitch pitcher. It seems to have worked, and perhaps the Twins should have thought to do it. However there's a pretty high chance that means this is still a house of cards ready to collapse similar to Tyler Duffey, putting Meyer in the pen where so many predicted he'd be all along.

Interesting. I looked Meyer up on Brooksbaseball, and two changes stand out.

1. The Angels have him throwing a two-seamer/sinker along with his usual 4-seam fastball.
2. He is throwing harder than he did last year (approximately 1mph faster...)

[Mike Sixel]

 

Against  one of the weaker offenses in the league playing their backups about all Meyer needed to do was throw it towards the center of the plate

 

He can only face the teams he faces. He doesn't get to choose. Odds Turley, Tepesch, or others the Twins have rolled out would have done that?

[Otto von Ballpark]

OPS + of 100 means they are league average for their position. So what. They have only one batter that has a wpa of any significance. Now wpa measures batting contributions towards winning. Why is OPS+ a better stat than that?

OPS+ is position agnostic. So a batter with a 100 OPS+ is a league average hitter, regardless of position.

 

WPA is very dependent on context, a very different stat. I've never really seen it employed in this manner.

[Otto von Ballpark]

He was out of options... did they feel they had no room for him?

Meyer was not out of options. He has been optioned by the Angels already in 2017.

[gunnarthor]

He's looking good. Good for him.