Castro's pitch framing

[gunnarthor]

Royals Review were a bit upset about some calls today.

 

 

[d-mac]

 

Royals Review were a bit upset about some calls today.

 

 

[Taildragger8791]

Looks like the ump didn't want to be late for happy hour.

[prouster]

Some of these must be swings and misses. I watched almost the entire game, and I saw nothing egregious. A few on the bottom of the zone that I thought were balls, but those went both ways.

[GP830]

I saw some harping on the royals board last night about Twins-biased calls. It blew my mind as a Minnesota sports fan as to why any any officiant would have any reason to give MN the edge.

[ashbury]

Some of these must be swings and misses. I watched almost the entire game, and I saw nothing egregious. A few on the bottom of the zone that I thought were balls, but those went both ways.

Either that or a phantom HBP. "Sorry, son, that was a strike. Get back in the box."

[DaveW]

I still think pitch framing is super over rated. More importantly Castro is HITTING well, which is nice.

 

And the Twins rotation looks solid so far, but.....the Royals have a AAAA lineup IMO.

[gil4]

 

Either that or a phantom HBP. "Sorry, son, that was a strike. Get back in the box."

I've called that one before. The pitch started out up and in and you could see him tense up to "take one for the team." It was a curveball, and he followed it out over the plate with his arm, just above the elbow.  "Dead ball. The pitch is a strike. Come on back, batter."  He was incredulous - "The ball hit me." I told him that it was in the strike zone when it did. When he came back out to his position (catcher), he apologized for arguing (which was very minor anyway) and said he just didn't know it could be a strike.  

[KirbyDome89]

Don't anger them....this is the same group that almost got Omar Infante into the ASG in 2015....

[EddieMatthews]

No discussion of KC strike calls would be complete without the Twins strike chart.  Anyone?  Comparing CALLED strikes between teams could indicate bias or incompetence (or normal variance in the process).

[Brock Beauchamp]

I saw some harping on the royals board last night about Twins-biased calls. It blew my mind as a Minnesota sports fan as to why any any officiant would have any reason to give MN the edge.

Keep that in mind next time you feel outraged about a call.

 

In the eyes of every fan, their team gets shafted by umps. It's so boring.

 

Yeah, individual calls suck. It happens. Phil Cuzzi is still an idiot. Those examples are few and far between.

[mikecgrimes]

 

Keep that in mind next time you feel outraged about a call.

In the eyes of every fan, their team gets shafted by umps. It's so boring.

Yeah, individual calls suck. It happens. Phil Cuzzi is still an idiot. Those examples are few and far between.

 

I'll watch sporting events I don't care about just to watch how bad officials and umpires can be.  As for pitch framing I think it's a game changing skill that goes far beyond what we can measure as it allows the pitcher to expand everything he's doing.  Suzuki is probably a below replacement level player when pitch framing is properly factored in, but Castro's WAS (wins over Suzuki) I figure to be a minimum of 20.

[LimestoneBaggy]

 

and I spit coffee on my computer screen....again. Thanks D-mac, now I need some paper towels and an IT guy

[jorgenswest]

Looking at early data from statcorner, both Perez and Castro exit the opening series a negative.

 

The data is umpire dependent and is good for comparison within a game or series early on but not across the league. In this series, Castro came out a -9 and Perez -16 (out of zone strikes - in zone balls). Castro gave the Twins an edge in this series.

 

To illustrate the umpires influence, you will see that two of the top three on the plus side came from the same series. I am not arguing that the data isn't meaningful. While umpire dependent, the sample becomes large and the umpires vary widely reasonably quickly.

 

Castro won the battle in the first series. Let's hope he wins more of these battles.

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

Looking at early data from statcorner, both Perez and Castro exit the opening series a negative.

The data is umpire dependent and is good for comparison within a game or series early on but not across the league. In this series, Castro came out a -9 and Perez -16 (out of zone strikes - in zone balls). Castro gave the Twins an edge in this series.

To illustrate the umpires influence, you will see that two of the top three on the plus side came from the same series. I am not arguing that the data isn't meaningful. While umpire dependent, the sample becomes large and the umpires vary widely reasonably quickly.

Castro won the battle in the first series. Let's hope he wins more of these battles.

Yep, framing can't really be used on a game-by-game basis in comparison to the league because the umpire has such a large influence on the outcomes.

 

I never really considered the importance of "winning the series" from a framing perspective but that's spot-on. The catcher can't control the tendencies of the umpire so in small samples, it makes sense to compare stats to the opposing catcher and "win" that battle.

 

Only after we're a few months into the season can we evaluate league-wide trends.

[tarheeltwinsfan]

Castro for MVP.

[d-mac]

 

Keep that in mind next time you feel outraged about a call.

In the eyes of every fan, their team gets shafted by umps. It's so boring.

Yeah, individual calls suck. It happens. Phil Cuzzi is still an idiot. Those examples are few and far between.

 

Unless you follow college sports. That s*** is real. It's unbelievable clustermuck of incompetence and favoritism. 

[gunnarthor]

 

Unless you follow college sports. That s*** is real. It's unbelievable clustermuck of incompetence and favoritism. 

What?  No way, man.  The refs - especially in the SEC - are known for their integrity.  

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mpPmmLVwUG0

[d-mac]

 

What?  No way, man.  The refs - especially in the SEC - are known for their integrity.  

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mpPmmLVwUG0

 

LOL. SSSSEEEEEECCCCC PAAWWWWLLLL!!!! 

[Trov]

 

Looking at early data from statcorner, both Perez and Castro exit the opening series a negative.

The data is umpire dependent and is good for comparison within a game or series early on but not across the league. In this series, Castro came out a -9 and Perez -16 (out of zone strikes - in zone balls). Castro gave the Twins an edge in this series.

To illustrate the umpires influence, you will see that two of the top three on the plus side came from the same series. I am not arguing that the data isn't meaningful. While umpire dependent, the sample becomes large and the umpires vary widely reasonably quickly.

Castro won the battle in the first series. Let's hope he wins more of these battles.

Main reason I am all for the electronic strike zone.  Why should who is catching, who is pitching, and who is umpiring change what is a strike?  I read an article a couple of years ago, sorry no link, about how umpires are more likely to call a border line pitch a strike if the count is 3-0, and more likely to call a ball if 0-2.  Also, more likely to call a ball if just called a strike as well.  The rules say what a strike is, if we have the ability to always make the call correct why not do it?  

 

I am not getting on the umpires, might be hardest job ever to decide if a pitch is a ball or a strike and hear they get over 90% correct, but why not get 100% correct if we can?  Baseball added instant replay to try and get all the calls correct, but yet they don't care about getting all the strikes and balls called correctly?  

 

Don't give me the tradition of baseball, or human error is part of the game.  If that is the case we should get rid of instant replay and let games be decided by wrong calls, only makes sense if you are okay with wrong pitch calls being made.  Some people say well it is only a few in the game and what is the big deal, well what if it is a 3-2 pitch that is called wrong way to end an inning or extend an inning then whole game is changed.  One wrong call of a pitch can change the whole game.

[jorgenswest]

Main reason I am all for the electronic strike zone.  Why should who is catching, who is pitching, and who is umpiring change what is a strike?  I read an article a couple of years ago, sorry no link, about how umpires are more likely to call a border line pitch a strike if the count is 3-0, and more likely to call a ball if 0-2.  Also, more likely to call a ball if just called a strike as well.  The rules say what a strike is, if we have the ability to always make the call correct why not do it?  

 

I am not getting on the umpires, might be hardest job ever to decide if a pitch is a ball or a strike and hear they get over 90% correct, but why not get 100% correct if we can?  Baseball added instant replay to try and get all the calls correct, but yet they don't care about getting all the strikes and balls called correctly?  

 

Don't give me the tradition of baseball, or human error is part of the game.  If that is the case we should get rid of instant replay and let games be decided by wrong calls, only makes sense if you are okay with wrong pitch calls being made.  Some people say well it is only a few in the game and what is the big deal, well what if it is a 3-2 pitch that is called wrong way to end an inning or extend an inning then whole game is changed.  One wrong call of a pitch can change the whole game.

I should agree with everything you say about electronic umpiring, but for some reason I stopped watching tennis. The passion of McEnroe and the human element of the judges was entertaining.

 

I think I would miss the human element of the called third strike and the passion of the pitcher, batter or manager after a call. I am likely in the minority, but the passion of humans makes the game entertaining and something will be lost in the sterile environment of electronic calls.

[Mike Sixel]

 

I should agree with everything you say about electronic umpiring, but for some reason I stopped watching tennis. The passion of McEnroe and the human element of the judges was entertaining.

I think I would miss the human element of the called third strike and the passion of the pitcher, batter or manager after a call. I am likely in the minority, but the passion of humans makes the game entertaining and something will be lost in the sterile environment of electronic calls.

 

for me? Tennis went from long volleys requiring thinking and strategy, to POWER. So, I lost interest. I think that's what was great about Borg/McEnroe.

 

[mikecgrimes]

 

Looking at early data from statcorner, both Perez and Castro exit the opening series a negative.

The data is umpire dependent and is good for comparison within a game or series early on but not across the league. In this series, Castro came out a -9 and Perez -16 (out of zone strikes - in zone balls). Castro gave the Twins an edge in this series.

 

 

While these #'s in the long run will give you a good indication of who the best pitch framers are this feels like as useful data as batting average pitcher wins or errors.  You would have to know where the pitchers intended to put every pitch to really measure the impact.  It really is a combination of pitch framing and game calling.  I also think this is more important when dealing with average to below average pitchers then good to great pitchers, although it could just come down to how a pitcher pitches more so then how good he is.  The key is knowing the advantage you have and using that knowledge to further benefit yourself.

[Oldgoat_MN]

 

Some of these must be swings and misses. I watched almost the entire game, and I saw nothing egregious. A few on the bottom of the zone that I thought were balls, but those went both ways.

I saw at least one that looked so far outside that no one could have reached it. It was called a strike. I was so surprised by what I saw I checked Gameday to see how they had it. Sure enough, Gameday showed it to be well outside, too.

 

There were some odd calls both ways. I would be all for an electronic strike zone. It's not the 'human error' or 'passion' I would miss, but the art of framing. As a former catcher, I have always enjoyed the catchers who can get an extra strike from an umpire now and then. I played whole seasons where that was my primary goal all game. Really fun. 

Never read about it in a book or a stat back then. I just figured that's what all catchers did.

[USAFChief]

Main reason I am all for the electronic strike zone.  Why should who is catching, who is pitching, and who is umpiring change what is a strike?  I read an article a couple of years ago, sorry no link, about how umpires are more likely to call a border line pitch a strike if the count is 3-0, and more likely to call a ball if 0-2.  Also, more likely to call a ball if just called a strike as well.  The rules say what a strike is, if we have the ability to always make the call correct why not do it?  

 

I am not getting on the umpires, might be hardest job ever to decide if a pitch is a ball or a strike and hear they get over 90% correct, but why not get 100% correct if we can?  Baseball added instant replay to try and get all the calls correct, but yet they don't care about getting all the strikes and balls called correctly?  

 

Don't give me the tradition of baseball, or human error is part of the game.  If that is the case we should get rid of instant replay and let games be decided by wrong calls, only makes sense if you are okay with wrong pitch calls being made.  Some people say well it is only a few in the game and what is the big deal, well what if it is a 3-2 pitch that is called wrong way to end an inning or extend an inning then whole game is changed.  One wrong call of a pitch can change the whole game.

Why stop there? Let's eliminate real baseball...much too human. Errors, bloops for hits and ropes for outs, bad base running, etc etc etc.

 

Let's just run a million computer sims and declare the WS winner!

[Trov]

 

Why stop there? Let's eliminate real baseball...much too human. Errors, bloops for hits and ropes for outs, bad base running, etc etc etc.

Let's just run a million computer sims and declare the WS winner!

I see no connection to having the call correct to taking away the players and their skill.  My argument is to have the correct call for the players so the correct outcome from their skill happens.  The errors is based on the skill of the player and they should factor in the outcome, but the skill of the umpire should not factor into the outcome.  If I was a player I want my skill to decide if I win, not, "oh sorry you should have won that game, but the umpire was not good enough, better luck next time."

[nytwinsfan]

Just read/watch this graphic/gif breakdown of how much of a better pitch framer Castro is than Perez. Simply incredible:  http://www.twinkietown.com/2017/4/9/15222762/pitch-framing-jason-castro-salvador-perez-best-catchers-minnesota-twins-kansas-city-royals-mlb

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

Just read/watch this graphic/gif breakdown of how much of a better pitch framer Castro is than Perez. Simply incredible:  http://www.twinkietown.com/2017/4/9/15222762/pitch-framing-jason-castro-salvador-perez-best-catchers-minnesota-twins-kansas-city-royals-mlb

Man, what a difference. Castro is smooth.

[Guest]

I should agree with everything you say about electronic umpiring, but for some reason I stopped watching tennis. The passion of McEnroe and the human element of the judges was entertaining.

I think I would miss the human element of the called third strike and the passion of the pitcher, batter or manager after a call. I am likely in the minority, but the passion of humans makes the game entertaining and something will be lost in the sterile environment of electronic calls.

A lot of people resented when the smelly and noisy car took over for the horses, with whom they had relationships; when the airplane replaced romantic boats and trains as the key method for travel; and when sloppy and impersonal emails made human interactions by letter and phone less common (and when the DH replaced the "strategy" involved with pitchers hitting).

 

However, the technological improvements nonetheless are preferred and considered better, even with the loss of the "human element." It is past time for human failure by a non-competitor to no longer make the difference between who wins and who loses, and which fans are happy and which are disappointed. Most umpires simply do not have the human capacity to accurately judge all strikes. (Many Twins fans would say Phil Cuzzi line calls should also be replaced, but that is a separate issue.) Now, the technology exists to correct this weakness. It is already being used to embarrass umpires; soon it will be used to replace them. The most satisfaction I've ever gotten from umpiring is not being disappointed. For me, pitching, hitting, running, fielding, throwing, teamwork, drafting, development and team-building are enough "human element" to be satisfied with baseball.