Nick Nelson Site Manager Posted November 16, 2016 Posted November 16, 2016 Earlier this week, we analyzed the payroll implications of signing one of the top free agent catchers available. But if the Twins miss out on the most prized names and have to set their sights a bit lower, what kind of values might they find? Which names in the lower tier make the most sense?It sounds as though the Twins are legitimately interested in acquiring an impact starter at the position. They are known to have interest in Jason Castro, and it would be no surprise if they at least reached out to the reps of Wilson Ramos and Matt Wieters. However, even if they're very serious about going after these players, it may be a trivial pursuit. If the trio of Ramos, Wieters and Castro are all steadfastly interested in playing for contending teams, they'll probably have that opportunity. Plenty of quality teams have needs at catcher, and will be ready to pony up the required dollars to place a winning bid. This would leave the Twins – who undoubtedly need to at least add SOMEONE at catcher – in a position to peruse the remaining ranks. With this segment, Minnesota might actually be at a relative advantage. Established contenders wouldn't look at the majority of these players as candidates for regular playing time, but the Twins can afford to feed reps to a marginal talent while they try to turn around John Ryan Murphy and develop Mitch Garver. In our Offseason Handbook free agency rankings, the next name we have listed after the aforementioned top three is Kurt Suzuki. Of course, it is pretty well established at this point that both sides are ready to move on. Suzuki is also the only other player in the group who seems likely to receive a multi-year deal, so going with a lesser option would mean less risk and more future flexibility. If they're not going to be able to land a true difference-maker, then the Twins should focus on targets with upside who fit for particular reasons. With this in mind, here's a look at three names I would consider pursuing: Alex AvilaFormer Team: White SoxAge: 30 | B/T: L/R2016 Stats: 57 G, .213/.359/.373, 7 HR, 11 RBI, 19 R Why He Makes Sense Avila batted only .213 this year but still got on base at an above-average clip. In 2015 his ugly .191 average came along with a respectable .339 OBP. This has been a consistent trend for the lefty-swinging backstop because he draws enough walks to keep getting on base even when his bat sags. His platoon splits make him a very logical complement to Murphy or Garver, who both swing from the right side. Why He Doesn't He has played only 124 games combined over the past two years due to injuries and uninspiring play. Opponents ran all over him this season, stealing 25 bases on 32 attempts in just 52 starts behind the plate. StatCorner ranked him as the 10th-worst pitch framer in baseball. And as arguably the best free agent catcher beyond Ramos, Wieters, Castro and Suzuki, he might be in for an overpay. Chris IannettaFormer Team: MarinersAge: 33 | B/T: R/R2016 Stats: 94 G, .210/.303/.329, 7 HR, 24 RBI Why He Makes Sense If experience is a primary concern for the Twins – and it may be given the shortcomings of Murphy and Garver in that area – Iannetta looks like a logical and inexpensive plug. He has accrued more than 7,500 career innings behind the plate and is reputed to be a solid defender. He owns a .743 career OPS, which is 60 points higher than the average AL backstop posted this season. Why He Doesn't While his career numbers are fairly impressive, Iannetta hasn't hit much over the past two years, accumulating a .198/.298/.332 slash line with the Angels and Mariners. He might not have much left in the tank offensively and he is particularly rough against right-handed pitching. Geovany SotoFormer Team: AngelsAge: 34 | B/T: R/R2016 Stats: 26 G, .269/.321/.487, 4 HR, 9 RBI Why He Makes Sense He's coming off another injury-riddled campaign, which has sadly become par for the course, but when Soto is on the field he hits. The former Rookie of the Year owns a .767 career OPS and has put up a .240/.313/.431 line over the past four years despite being limited to 567 total plate appearances. He's not a bad gamble on a low-money guarantee or minor-league deal, and may be enticed by the opportunity to take over Minnesota's starting gig if he can get healthy. Why He Doesn't The Twins are seeking some level of assurance behind the plate, and Soto hardly provides it. He was limited to 26 games this year by ailments affecting his thumb and both knees. Hardly ideal for a catcher in his mid-30s. The aging veteran hasn't played 100 games in a season since 2011. Do any of these names catch your eye? How about the rest of the crop, which includes such names as Drew Butera, Jeff Mathis, A.J. Ellis, Ryan Hanigan, Dioner Navarro, Nick Hundley and Jarrod Saltalamacchia? Share your thoughts in the comments section! Remember, you can download the 2017 Offseason Handbook for free (or donation) and get a full in-depth breakdown of all the free agents at this position, and others! Click here to view the article
Kwak Verified Member Posted November 16, 2016 Posted November 16, 2016 Yuck. Play who you have if one of the best three aren't signed. Signing a future injury makes no sense. theBOMisthebomb 1
High heat Verified Member Posted November 16, 2016 Posted November 16, 2016 Why crape the bottom of the scrap heap? Would rather just role with Murphy,Garver and Turner. The only one on this you could make a case for is Avila because he is left handed. theBOMisthebomb, Monkeypaws and Thrylos 3
Thrylos Old-Timey Member Posted November 16, 2016 Posted November 16, 2016 The "lower tier" of free agent catchers.AKA bottom feedingbeen there, done that, Ryan was fired because of that (and some) Next. Turn the page. notoriousgod71 1
gSutter Provisional Member Posted November 16, 2016 Posted November 16, 2016 I have to believe that you could find a minor league free agent with good defensive chops that could be as good a choice as any one of these guys. If not, I'd call the Mets. With d'Arnaud, Plewecki on the roster I would see if they would be willing to part with Rene Rivera. A former Twin who has long been known for his glove behind the plate. Also call the Padres, and ask about Austin Hedges. Seems like he's been called one of the best defensive prospects at the catcher position for years. He finally started hitting last year, and the Padres still haven't given him much of a chance in the bigs. Vanimal46 and olivia11 2
Monkeypaws Verified Member Posted November 16, 2016 Posted November 16, 2016 Garver is better already than any of these guys. theBOMisthebomb 1
DocBauer Old-Timey Member Posted November 16, 2016 Posted November 16, 2016 The more I see, hear and read about Garver, the more I like and believe in him. I've been saying for a while now that I'm not sure the Twins best move wouldn't be to sign the very best AAAA level catcher they could find, preferably who hits LH, maybe someone either squeezed out elsewhere or has disappointed somewhat, and just roll with what we have. I'm not saying don't sign Castro, or that I wouldn't be happy to have him, or that he couldn't help the staff as well as impart knowledge and experience to Garver/Murphy. But would the team simply be better going the direction of youth? Or maybe a 1 year deal on someone like Avila? I understand his limitations, but he could provide knowledge and experience, some contact and OB, while working with Garver and or Murphy.
theBOMisthebomb Verified Member Posted November 16, 2016 Posted November 16, 2016 Count me on the JRM/Garver bandwagon if our choices are this bottom tier.
Cory Engelhardt Verified Member Posted November 16, 2016 Posted November 16, 2016 If we look at JUST pitch framing stats (something I think Falvey will say is important for his catchers) of this tier, Jeff Mathis is the only one who ranked as above average last year with the Marlins. He, at 4.4, is pretty well above average, and I'd be ok throwing him a 1 year deal if the Twins miss out on Castro and/or don't trade for someone else. http://www.statcorner.com/CatcherReport.php Mathis is pretty poor offensively. His 3% walk rate last year makes even Eddie Rosario look good. But, as a backup catcher (are we comfortable having Garver/Murphy be the starter?) he would help mentor on pitch framing at least. That said, I'm still on the sign-Castro train. Hopefully that works out. operation mindcrime and Vanimal46 2
Nick Nelson Site Manager Posted November 16, 2016 Author Posted November 16, 2016 I think they need to sign someone who can hold their own as a credible starter for a while, so Mathis doesn't work. If they enter next season with JRM or Garver as Option A from the get-go, I'd consider that a significant failure for the new regime, PseudoSABR, Vanimal46, Cory Engelhardt and 1 other 4
Vanimal46 Old-Timey Member Posted November 16, 2016 Posted November 16, 2016 Concur with Nick. The Twins need a starting caliber C this off-season... Not sold on JRM or Garver as Option A to start the season. That being said, this list is gross. They need to aim much higher than this. Castro is the guy we all seem to have our eyes on. gSutter brought up some good potential trade targets with Plawecki / d'Arnaud in New York, or one of the 3 C in San Diego. If Castro can't be had, call up San Diego, who's in tear down mode, and toss a prospect or 2 their way for Hedges, Norris, or Bethancourt. Richie the Rally Goat and Cory Engelhardt 2
Cory Engelhardt Verified Member Posted November 16, 2016 Posted November 16, 2016 I think they need to sign someone who can hold their own as a credible starter for a while, so Mathis doesn't work. If they enter next season with JRM or Garver as Option A from the get-go, I'd consider that a significant failure for the new regime, But even if a catcher can hold their own offensively, if pitch framing and defense are the most important aspects of the catcher position, then are you really ok with one of these guys being the starter? I mean, Geovany Soto was almost league average (-1.0) but even JR Murphy was higher than that, in terms of pitch framing. Avila and Iannetta were far worse than even Suzuki was in that regard.
HitInAPinch Verified Member Posted November 16, 2016 Posted November 16, 2016 In the NWO of rating catchers, do we really care that much about offense? #1 is defense, especially with Twins pitchers. Give me a nice OBP and an occasional clutch hit to go with solid defense and I'm pretty good with that. Just need to have someone with experience to help Garver/Murphy along. Cory Engelhardt and Vanimal46 2
Winston Smith Verified Member Posted November 16, 2016 Posted November 16, 2016 Butera, Butera where are you sweet Drew? Nick Nelson 1
Andrew Luedtke Verified Member Posted November 16, 2016 Posted November 16, 2016 Best option I believe is to sign a vet guy on a cheap one-year deal in the hopes that Garver will be ready to make the jump. Looks like his bat is there judging by his AA/AAA numbers and his defense has been above average in the minors. Having a name like Castro, Wieters, or Ramos would be fun, sure. But how much will they really help vs. an internal option? If the FO has no faith in our current players then definitely invest now. Maybe Ramos will be cheap coming off injury
whosafraidofluigirussolo Verified Member Posted November 16, 2016 Posted November 16, 2016 Fangraphs recently posted an article about the current minor league free-agent position players projected to perform best next year under a particular statistical projection system that I'm not "under the hood" enough to care to read about. 4 of the top 10 are catchers. Take it for what it's worth. Maybe one of them can be what people seemed to hope the catcher Hicks would be last year. Cory Engelhardt 1
Mike Sixel Old-Timey Member Posted November 16, 2016 Posted November 16, 2016 Fangraphs recently posted an article about the current minor league free-agent position players projected to perform best next year under a particular statistical projection system that I'm not "under the hood" enough to care to read about. 4 of the top 10 are catchers. Take it for what it's worth. Maybe one of them can be what people seemed to hope the catcher Hicks would be last year. I'd certainly sign one of them for AAA, with a shot to make it out of spring training. Turner can be in AA if both Garver and another minor league FA are in AAA.
mikelink45 Old-Timey Member Posted November 16, 2016 Posted November 16, 2016 No, No, No. Work with what we have. If they are not good enough sign someone when there are better options and we are a better team.
Brandon Warne Verified Member Posted November 16, 2016 Posted November 16, 2016 Nick Hundley is more interesting than any of those guys, I think.
Mike Sixel Old-Timey Member Posted November 16, 2016 Posted November 16, 2016 No, No, No. Work with what we have. If they are not good enough sign someone when there are better options and we are a better team. Centeno and Murphy? Or promote Garver after around 20 games in AAA, or what? Do nothing from the outside to make the team better, or just this position?
Shaitan Verified Member Posted November 16, 2016 Posted November 16, 2016 Is Garver/Murphy a safe enough back-up plan for if Soto?
mikelink45 Old-Timey Member Posted November 16, 2016 Posted November 16, 2016 Centeno and Murphy? Or promote Garver after around 20 games in AAA, or what? Do nothing from the outside to make the team better, or just this position? Bring in Garver and move on. Did you see the list and their stats and profiles. What improvement do any of them bring. They are hardly better hitters than Murphy was last year. Get our young catchers in and let them mature. It is not like the young players that we have are teenagers - their clocks are ticking too. But the bottom rung of catchers is too far down the list to waste any time in my estimation.
operation mindcrime Verified Member Posted November 17, 2016 Posted November 17, 2016 Let's not and say we did! \m/
Miraclebat Verified Member Posted November 18, 2016 Posted November 18, 2016 Garver and Murphy will both hit considerably better than Castro will this year (Castro's stats the last three years are terrible.) That being said, if Garver and Murphy's defense is bottom 1/4 in the league....then that will be an issue.
USAFChief Twins Daily Contributor Posted November 18, 2016 Posted November 18, 2016 Garver and Murphy will both hit considerably better than Castro will this year (Castro's stats the last three years are terrible.) That being said, if Garver and Murphy's defense is bottom 1/4 in the league....then that will be an issue.Castro's 2016 major league OPS (.684) was over 70 points higher than Murphy's AAA OPS (.609). I don't think it's a given Murphy will even be the Twins backup catcher in 2017. Vanimal46, TheLeviathan, Richie the Rally Goat and 1 other 4
TheLeviathan Old-Timey Member Posted November 18, 2016 Posted November 18, 2016 I really don't see Garver being a factor to consider until late 2017, probably 2018. Seems like plenty of time to have a capable defensive stud back there helping out pitchers in the meantime. USAFChief and Vanimal46 2
Kepler Verge Verified Member Posted November 18, 2016 Posted November 18, 2016 Am I the only one who would kinda like to have Butera back if we don't get one of the top three? His Mendoza Line BA is right in line with these guys and he always called a good game with a good arm.... *ducks*
Richie the Rally Goat Community Moderator Posted November 19, 2016 Posted November 19, 2016 Am I the only one who would kinda like to have Butera back if we don't get one of the top three? His Mendoza Line BA is right in line with these guys and he always called a good game with a good arm.... *ducks*he has already signed a 2 year deal with the Royals. Tongue in cheek sure, but not so far-fetched.
Mike Sixel Old-Timey Member Posted November 19, 2016 Posted November 19, 2016 Buteras offense is worse than historically bad....
Kyle DeBarge Wichita Wind Surge - AA 2B/CF On Sunday, DeBarge went 3-for-3 with a walk and a double. It was his second multi-hit game in his past three games. Explore Kyle DeBarge News >
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