Article: Twins Trade Abad To Red Sox For RP Prospect

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

Pretty much no matter what he does, you criticize it. He got a good prospect for a RP that is a FA after this year (I think).......isn't that a good trade? I don't understand the line of thinking here at all. 

 

I agree with Seth, 2-2.

I'm not criticizing anything -- I think this and the Nunez trades are fine moves.  But they are pretty much bog standard moves in terms of evaluating an MLB GM or FO.  Expendable veteran role players, swapped to contenders at or just before the deadline for modest 40-man roster prospects.

 

Before I break out the applause for Antony or this Twins FO in general, I'd like to see some more creativity.  A trade for a non-40 man prospect might have been more creative; an Ervin Santana trade would almost certainly be creative; so would dealing Suzuki given the rest of our catching situation.

 

Now, there's nothing wrong with not accomplishing anything creative in the limited time frame that Antony has been at the GM desk.  So he won't get any demerits or criticism from me.  But he also won't get "bonus points" or the "perfect score" implied by Seth's "2-for-2" comment.

[Richie the Rally Goat]

We have to remember there is always still August for guys like Plouffe, Kintzler, Santana etc. I love that MLB has a trade deadline that is kind of a deadline but not really.

Suzuki isn't passing through waivers unclaimed which makes him most likely to bring a good return of players who are likely to be traded in the next 12 minutes

[Richie the Rally Goat]

We have to remember there is always still August for guys like Plouffe, Kintzler, Santana etc. I love that MLB has a trade deadline that is kind of a deadline but not really.

Suzuki isn't passing through waivers unclaimed which makes him most likely to bring a good return of players who are likely to be traded in the next 12 minutes

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

In 5 years we can judge the outcome, I would suggest Seth's 2-2 line was more about the idea of the trade.  We took a roster invite guy and turned him into a former 37th pick by selling high.

 

I don't care so much about the long term results at this point, I strongly agree with that philosophy of asset management/acquisition.

That's fine.  I agree.

 

I guess I was more irked about Seth's earlier comment, that the Nunez trade goes in the "plus" column in judging Antony's case for the permanent GM job.  I read his "2-for-2" comment here as another "plus" in making that case.  Which I think is going way too far -- I think they can be good trades without making a significant difference in Antony's GM bid.

[strumdatjaguar]

I hope this trade does not turn out to be Abad trade.   - Hey it's the last time that stupid pun can be used

[jimmer]

So we have traded four Twins (well, three Twins and a Red Wing).  Busy trade deadline for the Twins.  I like it.

 

Who had 4 players traded?

[ThejacKmp]

 

Yes that's true.. But most teams are looking to upgrade their rosters now rather than August.

 

Yeah but the July upgrades are often for the impact players while August is about aging vets and small pieces. As the Twins had no real impact players, I'm excited for August. Kintzler seems like the kind of guy who can move in August, Suzuki too.

[ThejacKmp]

 

Suzuki isn't passing through waivers unclaimed which makes him most likely to bring a good return of players who are likely to be traded in the next 12 minutes

 

Suzuki won't pass through but that doesn't mean he can't be traded. I'm no expert but if a team claims him, the twins can negotiate with them. No crappy team is going to take Suzuki so if a contender makes a claim, the Twins can go to work. Issue is that the Indians make the most sense and the Royals or Tiggers might have reason to make a claim to block them. Maybe they won't though since they might be afraid the Twins might just let Suzuki go on a claim and not have to pay him or worry in any small way about the vesting option?

[Darius]

Can't say anything bad about it. At least they're doing something. Nice return for a guy picked up off the scrap heap.

[Seth Stohs]

 

That's not really a useful way of looking at it.

 

First of all, by your definition, he almost can't go 0-for-1 on a player until the trade deadline actually passes (and even then, we'll probably hear how it wasn't really his fault that he couldn't move such-and-such player).

 

And it's not really a hit/no-hit situation -- there are tons of outcomes between going "0-for-1" and "1-for-1" on a trade.  I'd say getting an interesting 40-man depth piece for an obvious trade candidate is something like a "league average" performance in terms of trades -- not bad, but short of the perfection implied by "2-for-2".

 

I look at each trade on their own merit. I think the Twins are 3-3 in trades so far this year. I don't have the time or energy to think about if he was like 37-50 or 47-50 on these trades... Just looking at each trade as one trade and I like all three of them. 

[Thrylos]

To get a player with some potential for a guy who would not be with the Twins next season, is a plus.  On the other hand, here is a comparison you might find interesting:

 

Pat Light's career AAA numbers: 6.0 BB and 10.0 K/9 (51 games) Jim Hoey's: 5.4 BB and 9.3 K/9 (120 games)

[ashbury]

Well, on one hand it's Abad deal but on the other, not a bad deal.

I approve of the trade, simply on the grounds of never seeing posts like these anymore.

[ashbury]

I heartily endorse this approach.  Whether Light becomes a factor or not, this is a good trade.

You're not going to get very much for two months of a pitcher like Abad. It's the kind of trade I would do too, but it's also kind of a minor move in the great scheme of things. Close to inconsequential.

 

Looking more broadly, I am bothered by the strategy of signing a bunch of guys to minor league contracts, get a couple to perform well at the major league level, and trade one for a bullpen prospect with some warts. It's a lot of roster space invested for the convenience of the top teams to pick and choose. I am thoroughly sick of playing the role of the bottom feeder.

[twinssporto]

Anyone know what type of pitches this kid throws?  Obviously a fastball but the others?  Twins are doing a decent job of teaching and sharpening the changeup.  If he doesn't have a change up it could be a killer combo with the heat...Something to look forward too.

[jorgenswest]

A good trade. I honestly trust took the best offer they had for Abad. This is the kind of deal losing teams need to make.

[sftwinsfan]

Jim Hoey is exactly who I thought of with Pat Light, but not like they had much invested in Abad either so I don't really care.  Small chance he turns into something, but there's a chance.  

[Thrylos]

 

You're not going to get very much for two months of a pitcher like Abad. It's the kind of trade I would do too, but it's also kind of a minor move in the great scheme of things. Close to inconsequential.

 

Looking more broadly, I am bothered by the strategy of signing a bunch of guys to minor league contracts, get a couple to perform well at the major league level, and trade one for a bullpen prospect with some warts. It's a lot of roster space invested for the convenience of the top teams to pick and choose. I am thoroughly sick of playing the role of the bottom feeder.

 

In other words, you are really sick of being a Catfish Hunter...

[gil4]

 

...here is a comparison you might find interesting:

 

Pat Light's career AAA numbers: 6.0 BB and 10.0 K/9 (51 games) Jim Hoey's: 5.4 BB and 9.3 K/9 (120 games)

At least they didn't trade JJ Hardy to get him.

[ashbury]

In other words, you are really sick of being a Catfish Hunter...

He was a very good pitcher with World Series rings so I don't... oh, ISWYDT.

[gil4]

 

 

In other words, you are really sick of being a Catfish Hunter..

 

   Big groan

 

[Richie the Rally Goat]

Suzuki won't pass through but that doesn't mean he can't be traded. I'm no expert but if a team claims him, the twins can negotiate with them. No crappy team is going to take Suzuki so if a contender makes a claim, the Twins can go to work. Issue is that the Indians make the most sense and the Royals or Tiggers might have reason to make a claim to block them. Maybe they won't though since they might be afraid the Twins might just let Suzuki go on a claim and not have to pay him or worry in any small way about the vesting option?

you are correct, a trade could be had with the team that claims him, but Atlanta could claim just to stop the trade from going forward assuming they will not come to a trade agreement and the Twins will revoke waivers. Suzuki would never be waived being he's at the end of his guaranteed contract. He's more valuable to play the game than for his roster spot to be taken up by who? Murphy?

[gil4]

 

you are correct, a trade could be had with the team that claims him, but Atlanta could claim just to stop the trade from going forward assuming they will not come to a trade agreement and the Twins will revoke waivers. Suzuki would never be waived being he's at the end of his guaranteed contract. He's more valuable to play the game than for his roster spot to be taken up by who? Murphy?

Unless things have changed, teams usually don't put in claims to block a trade unless they have an idea that a specific rival is the intended recipient.  If teams get in the habit of making claims to block trades, other teams will start retaliating.

[Shaitan]

The only thing a non-deadline trade of Suzuki means is that his value is low. No surprise there.

[shs_59]

Pretty rock solid.

 

Light's impending career will always be compared to Alex Meyer for me, so far Meyer is hurt about 2-4 months out of 6 a yr every year, Light is out only about 1 or 2 months a yr every year.

 

So far so good.

[Boom Boom]

I suppose it's a good trade.

 

I'm still not going to say the Twins made a brilliant move in signing Abad. He wasn't signed to be trade bait, he was signed to help get the team to the playoffs.

[ThejacKmp]

you are correct, a trade could be had with the team that claims him, but Atlanta could claim just to stop the trade from going forward assuming they will not come to a trade agreement and the Twins will revoke waivers. Suzuki would never be waived being he's at the end of his guaranteed contract. He's more valuable to play the game than for his roster spot to be taken up by who? Murphy?

But what incentive does Atlanta have to do that? They won't want want the salary if the Pohldads go cheapo and let the braves have him so they can "play the young guys". It wouldn't be until a team with playoff hopes like the Tigers is up that you have incentive. And I'm not sure how worried those teams might be about Kurt Suzuki, he's not going to set the world on fire.

 

No reason to waive him, no one is arguing for that. Down the stretch you'll likely see more Murphy and content with suzuki being more of the backup.

[HitInAPinch]

Overall, yesterday was a great day for Twins Fans. 

 

Embrace it, revel in it and jump on the bandwagon     :-)

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

Unless things have changed, teams usually don't put in claims to block a trade unless they have an idea that a specific rival is the intended recipient.  If teams get in the habit of making claims to block trades, other teams will start retaliating.

True, although I think teams also try to be fairly selective about what guys it puts on August waivers.  For example, the Twins aren't going to put Buxton or Sano on waivers, or probably even Tonkin or Rogers.  Suzuki and Kintzler may not be in that class, but if we try to put them through waivers when they are performing well and offer affordable 2017 control, we might be pushing that boundary a bit, so I don't think it would be out of the question for a non-contender to put in a claim without fear of retaliation.  It wouldn't necessarily be about blocking at that point.

 

If they were both pending FA, or had a mildly prohibitive 2017 price tag, it would be a different story.

[jimmer]

there is zero risk to putting anyone on waivers at this point.  it's done to gauge interest most of the time, and they are easily pulled back. could put the whole team on there and there would be zero risk.

[SwainZag]

 

you are correct, a trade could be had with the team that claims him, but Atlanta could claim just to stop the trade from going forward assuming they will not come to a trade agreement and the Twins will revoke waivers. Suzuki would never be waived being he's at the end of his guaranteed contract. He's more valuable to play the game than for his roster spot to be taken up by who? Murphy?

 

I might be wrong here, but doesn't the AL teams have 1st shot at waivers, then it passes through the NL teams?  So Tampa would get first shot?