Outside the Box idea: Trade for Puig

[DaveW]

Reports are that the Dodgers are aggressively shopping Puig who has struggled quite a bit this year, not only off the field with coaches etc but on the field as well.

While Puig certainly has had his issues, few can  doubt the absolute raw talent that he possess.

The Twins obviously have some solid OF depth with Rosario-Buxton-Kepler currently, Kepler appears to be the real deal and Rosario has turned a corner it appears (but is a bit of an unknown still) but you can never have enough guys with upside IMO.

 

The Dodgers desperately need some catching help and could prob use some OF depth as well. I doubt Suzuki+Grossman would be enough for Puig, but if they could toss in a 20-25 prospect I think it would be worth seriously considering the move.

 

IMO at 25 Puig has the potential still to be a game changing type player, perhaps a change of scenary would be what rights his ship a bit? In 2013 and 2014 Puig put up 4.9 and 5.3 WAR, the arm is one of the best in the game, he can field anything (when he is focused) and has the ability to be a game changer at the plate as well.

If you can get him without giving up any long term assets I think you have to consider it, if he can turn it back around he becomes a huge impact player. If Rosario continues to hit (and Puig does) then you can turn around and trade one of them for a nice package in the off-season or sometime in the next year or so. (I still think Rosario has a lot of value to another team as a CF)

 

Obviously the flip side is that Puig could continue to struggle and ultimately becomes Delmon 2.0 for us. However that wouldn;t be a tough pill to swallow if Suzuki was the biggest name given up for him.

 

Thoughts?

[Mike Sixel]

I think he can declare himself a free agent this year...... If true, nope, don't want him.

[Post-Concussive Blues]

He can become arbitration eligible after this year, if he wants, which he will. I say make the trade. Ervin Santana is valuable to us, but might be a reasonable swap.

[dgwills]

I'd pass. His talent is undeniable, but he has had 2 bad years in a row. He very likely could have a few more before he turns it around, if ever. We have young outfielders who need plate appearances. No reason to take a risk on Puig.

[DaveW]

 

I think he can declare himself a free agent this year...... If true, nope, don't want him.

That's not correct. He is able to make himself arb eligible (versus going with the guaranteed dollars owed to him)

[DaveW]

 

 

I'd pass. His talent is undeniable, but he has had 2 bad years in a row. He very likely could have a few more before he turns it around, if ever. We have young outfielders who need plate appearances. No reason to take a risk on Puig.

To be fair though, Puig prob has the highest ceiling of the players not named Buxton or Sano on the current 25 man roster.

Kepler looks like the real deal, but I am still hesitant on Rosario.

[darin617]

Why would you want to bring in a player like Puig to this team? He has done nothing since his rookie year and it does not sound like he is a good clubhouse guy either. No way, would I give up anything for him and ruin this team. The worst part if some team actually trades for him is that he does not opt out and the team owes him like $17.5M for the next 2 years.

[DaveW]

 

Why would you want to bring in a player like Puig to this team? He has done nothing since his rookie year and it does not sound like he is a good clubhouse guy either. No way, would I give up anything for him and ruin this team. The worst part if some team actually trades for him is that he does not opt out and the team owes him like $17.5M for the next 2 years.

You are actually wrong on two of your major points you are trying to make:

 

He actually was a damn good player in his rookie year and his second year.

4.9 WAR rookie season, 5.5 WAR 2nd season.

 

Even last season with his injuries/issues he still managed to post a 110 OPS+, is that ideal? No, but it's not exactly like he was Drew Butera at the dish.

 

He isn't owed 17.5 million the next two seasons, he is owed 14 million total the next two season (6.5, 7.5), and also is under team control in 2019 to boot. If he chooses arb this year (which he likely will) than he isn't guaranteed anything for 2018, so if he completely flames out (which is pretty damn unlikely) than you can move on after 2017 anyways. If however he bounces back/plays up to even a portion of his potential then he becomes a bargain.

As far as attitude issues, the kid certainly has some room to grow, but let's not pretend he is Jeff Kent. The Dodgers org/management the past few years has been a disaster anyways (Mattingly was a terrible manager) a trade to quiet Minnesota could be just the wake up call he needs, not to mention the Twins have a lot of young spanish speaking players that could mesh better with Puig instead of a veteran team like the Dodgers. I actually think the Twins could be a perfect fit for him and he could thrive here.

[Badsmerf]

Grossman, suzuki and Adam Brett walker. Sign it and send it before the ink dries

[darin617]

 

You are actually wrong on two of your major points you are trying to make:

 

He actually was a damn good player in his rookie year and his second year.

4.9 WAR rookie season, 5.5 WAR 2nd season.

 

Even last season with his injuries/issues he still managed to post a 110 OPS+, is that ideal? No, but it's not exactly like he was Drew Butera at the dish.

 

He isn't owed 17.5 million the next two seasons, he is owed 14 million total the next two season (6.5, 7.5), and also is under team control in 2019 to boot. If he chooses arb this year (which he likely will) than he isn't guaranteed anything for 2018, so if he completely flames out (which is pretty damn unlikely) than you can move on after 2017 anyways. If however he bounces back/plays up to even a portion of his potential then he becomes a bargain.

As far as attitude issues, the kid certainly has some room to grow, but let's not pretend he is Jeff Kent. The Dodgers org/management the past few years has been a disaster anyways (Mattingly was a terrible manager) a trade to quiet Minnesota could be just the wake up call he needs, not to mention the Twins have a lot of young spanish speaking players that could mesh better with Puig instead of a veteran team like the Dodgers. I actually think the Twins could be a perfect fit for him and he could thrive here.

Don't know where you get your information, baseball reference states 2017 $8,214,000 & 2018 $9,214,000. So please check your facts before calling someone out. http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/p/puigya01.shtml#contracts

[DaveW]

 

Don't know where you get your information, baseball reference states 2017 $8,214,000 & 2018 $9,214,000. So please check your facts before calling someone out. http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/p/puigya01.shtml#contracts

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/yasiel-puig

http://www.spotrac.com/mlb/los-angeles-dodgers/yasiel-puig/

 

Signed to a seven-year, $42MM contract out of Cuba prior to the 2012 season, Puig’s deal allows him to opt into arbitration upon accruing three years of Major League service, which he’s done this year. He’s slated to earn $6.5MM in 2017 and $7.5MM in 2018

 

He got a 12 million dollar signing bonus when he signed, for payroll purposes that is paid out yearly, but that is all paid out by the Dodgers, thus whoever would trade for him would be on the hook for $14 million over the next two years.

 

[Otwins]

If the price is what has been discussed on this thread then I think we should go for it. I can't imagine it is really this low. If Antony is auditioning could be a make or break move.  SInce I think he is a long shot for the permanent job why not take a shot. Puig is as talented as Buxton.  

[ShouldaCouldaWoulda]

I don't see this as being a move the Twins would be involved in. I am not sure they would give up Puig for anyone other than guys we are not interested in giving up. That, and us already having young OF's and the whole Twins Way player personality thing.

[The Wise One]

Grossman and Suzuki with a low level prospect for Puig

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fjwWjx7Cw8I

[diehardtwinsfan]

So we are going to bring in a guy that needs development on a team that cannot develop players

 

Honestly, bringing him in doesn't bother me if the cost is reasonable. I don't think a Suzuki/Grossman combo would do it... maybe it would, and if so I might take the flier, but there's already a lot of guys in the OF looking for time and we'd be adding one more to that mix.

[Eris]

No thank you.  I'll pass on Puig.  The talent is undeniable.  His attitude will bring a toxic environment to the club house.  See Delmon Young and Jonathon Papelbon for examples.

[alarp33]

I have absolutely no idea what type of return the Dodgers could get for Puig, but if it is nothing major sign me up.  

 

Puig >>> Rosario.  I would even throw Rosario in the deal if needed.  

 

His "improvement" since coming back includes 18 k's and 1 BB and a .386 babip

[DaveW]

No thank you. I'll pass on Puig. The talent is undeniable. His attitude will bring a toxic environment to the club house. See Delmon Young and Jonathon Papelbon for examples.

Papelbon has a ring and is on a first place team, clearly his attitude isn't toxic enough to effect much.

 

Young was an idiot but his main problem was he just wasn't very good at baseball.

[DaveW]

I have absolutely no idea what type of return the Dodgers could get for Puig, but if it is nothing major sign me up.

 

Puig >>> Rosario. I would even throw Rosario in the deal if needed.

 

His "improvement" since coming back includes 18 k's and 1 BB and a .386 babip

Agreed, color me very concerned when it comes to not steady Eddie.

[HitInAPinch]

In a MLB Trade Rumors article, there doesn't seem to be a lot of interest in Puig.  Still has good defensive metrics, but offense has disappeared.  Injuries?

 

Not sure I'd want to spend a lot of time on "a player who has had his ups and downs both on and off the field."  Mets are known to be looking for more offense and don't have any interest in Puig.

 

For me, the price would have to be pretty dirt cheap before I'd consider Puig.  As in: Grossman, only.

OK, OK.  Maybe include one of the veteran RP's that have helped to keep the bullpen operating.

[Everyday Eddy]

If the Twins ever had a chance to trade Suzuki and Grossman or Rosario for Puig and didn't do it they would be insane.  You don't pass up on that kind of talent

[diehardtwinsfan]

This is a scenario where I'm really curious what the scouting book says on him. Kind of wonder if 'lack of interest' has more to do with every team in baseball knowing that there are certain pitch(s) he cannot hit and then add other issues into things and no one wants the risk. Given that his defense is good, if he's fixable, I might be willing to pony up Rosario, but that would be as high of a price I'd pay. I think you need to move away from adding to the OF at one point without doing some removing of the OF. We have two hitting prospects in AAA right now in Palka and Walker, and while they have questions, they are blocked at the major league level by Rosario and Kepler. Kepler shouldn't go anywhere.  Rosario on the other hand may be expendable.

[Mike Sixel]

Well, then yes, I would do a couple low level or medium guys for Puig. 

[DaveW]

I wouldn't worry about making from for Walker, he is 24 in AAA and hardly tearing it up. He is striking out in 45% of his at bats (38% of his PA). I don't think he is a viable major leaguer unless he does a complete 180, or at least a starting major league ball player.

 

Palka is ok, his OPS is certainly nice, but the guy has no home run power and he is striking out in about 35% of his plate appearances.

 

Basically I wouldn't worry about keeping roster spots free for them, let them force the issue with improved play or an injury at the major league level.

[Major League Ready]

We keep talking about the competence of this FO.  How would it be competent to bring in a young guy who is a known problem in the clubhouse when you have a plethora a young talent and more on the way?  Right now, despite being terrible for the first three months, this team has a good attitude, plays hard, and had a pretty darn good month in June.  He would have to be really good to take on that problem, not a guy who might regain his form from 2014.  Adding him to a team that was primarily veterans would be a different situation.  I guess just how bad an idea it would be here is a product of the other factors involved with Puig.

What can we project?    His 2015 OPS/wRC+ os 758/111   2016 OPS/wRC+ is 706/95.   Yes, he was good once but its been a year and a half since he performed well.  Did the league simply figure him out?

Is there an appreciable difference is his defense vs Rosario?

Could we use the extra $13M more wisely elsewhere?

Will be take playing time away form other players we could develop for the long-term like Rosario/Grossman and Palka next year?

Between his attitude and the fact he won’t be here when this team starts contend, I would not give this more than about 2 minutes thought.  Granted, we might be in contention by 2018 but he still is not part of our long-term future, so why take on a problem?  That is not competent management in my estimation. 

 

The biggest problem with this team is the refusal to look be beyond the present and do the thing necessary to build a contender.  Case in point, look how the Padres have handled their roster this year.  They cleared the decks, good the best return they could on the players that are not part of their future.  Puig would be a short-term upgrade IF, and it’s a BIG if, he returns to his 2014 form.

[Winston Smith]

Make the trade and include Nolasco then the money is next to nothing. Surprised how many people are concerned about team chemistry on a team that has lost 90+ games 5 of the last 6 years, I'm not sure the team chemistry is working all that well.

They could  get Tony O to mentor the guy, Tony speaks perfect Cuban.

[DaveW]

How on earth would Puig be a short termed asset at best when he would be under team control until 2020?

Trading for Puig is about contending in 2018/2019 when this team may have a shot. His salary is pretty much the same as Mike Pelfrey's was, I'd much rather spend that money on a guy who is only 1.5 years removed from being one of the most dynamic players in baseball then a never was like Pelfrey (or the plethora of other mediocre players the Twins pay for)

[nicksaviking]

Forget about the fans concerned about team chemistry, they guy making the trade is trying to keep his job, and surely he remembers the last guy who usurped Ryan made his first big splash by trading for Delmon Young. That trade was held over his head for a long time.

 

If Anthony is concerned about a clubhouse cancer, that's really all that matters, because he's not going to get chance to redeem himself should he make a glaring mistake. Any off field screw up or clubhouse confrontation by Puig would likely cost Anthony his job. If any of us were in his position, I'm guessing the possibility of future benefit wouldn't come close to the risk of the loss of our jobs.

[ghegge]

I think if you get the chance for this deal, you have to do it. We do not know how long it will take Buxton to realize his potential, not to mention he seems injury prone. I wouldn't be giving up Rosario either

 

[DaveW]

 

 

Make the trade and include Nolasco then the money is next to nothing. Surprised how many people are concerned about team chemistry on a team that has lost 90+ games 5 of the last 6 years, I'm not sure the team chemistry is working all that well.

They could  get Tony O to mentor the guy, Tony speaks perfect Cuban.

Olivia could be a great potential mentor. And like I previously mentioned, the Twins may be a better fit for him anyways. The Dodgers are full of proven and aged superstars, the Twins have a ton of young talent (many of them foreign/spanish speaking) that could gel better with Puig. Have him work with a patient Joe Mauer on pitch selection, have him work with Sano on pitch selection etc.

NTM the Minnesota media/expectations/backlash are significantly less than that of LA.