Outside the Box idea: Trade for Puig

[ghegge]

 

Olivia could be a great potential mentor. And like I previously mentioned, the Twins may be a better fit for him anyways. The Dodgers are full of proven and aged superstars, the Twins have a ton of young talent (many of them foreign/spanish speaking) that could gel better with Puig. Have him work with a patient Joe Mauer on pitch selection, have him work with Sano on pitch selection etc.

NTM the Minnesota media/expectations/backlash are significantly less than that of LA.

I think the biggest concern would be: would he want to play in MN? I feel as if he loves the spotlight

[DaveW]

 

 

Forget about the fans concerned about team chemistry, they guy making the trade is trying to keep his job, and surely he remembers the last guy who usurped Ryan made his first big splash by trading for Delmon Young. That trade was held over his head for a long time.

 

If Anthony is concerned about a clubhouse cancer, that's really all that matters, because he's not going to get chance to redeem himself should he make a glaring mistake. Any off field screw up or clubhouse confrontation by Puig would likely cost Anthony his job.

The problem with Delmon Young wasn't the fact that they brought in Delmon Young, it's that they traded a young highly regarded pitcher and a young starting SS for him in Garza and Bartlett.

 

Just like the problem with Capps wasn't that they brought in Capps, it's that they gave up Ramos for him.

If they would have traded a FA to be (Suzuki)+ a 4th OF for Young, the backlash would be minuscule.

[DaveW]

The Dodgers have won 92+ games a year and won the division in each year Puig has been with them. The "Clubhouse" cancer thing is overblown.

During that time the Twins will have had 4 years with 0 playoff appearances and 90+ losses in 3 of the 4 years.

 

Maybe it's time to stop worrying so much about chemistry and actually worry about putting talented baseball players on the field.

[DaveW]

 

 

I think the biggest concern would be: would he want to play in MN? I feel as if he loves the spotlight

I think all things considered he would prefer to play for a team willing to play him every day (and want him there) instead of a team like the Dodgers who perpetually mishandle him/bench him/refuse to mentor him etc

[alarp33]

 

How on earth would Puig be a short termed asset at best when he would be under team control until 2020?

Trading for Puig is about contending in 2018/2019 when this team may have a shot. His salary is pretty much the same as Mike Pelfrey's was, I'd much rather spend that money on a guy who is only 1.5 years removed from being one of the most dynamic players in baseball then a never was like Pelfrey (or the plethora of other mediocre players the Twins pay for)

 

I know people who frequent this site are Twins fans, so this may seem like a foreign concept.  But you are allowed to think outside the box on occasion, take a risk... a team that is out of the race and unlikely to contend next year has nothing to lose, this is absolutely the type of move they should be looking into.  

 

No thanks on Puig because Grossman, Rosaio and Walker need spots? I mean give me a break.  Enjoy the 90 loss seasons as they continue to pile up

 

[Pardon My Dinger]

 

I think all things considered he would prefer to play for a team willing to play him every day (and want him there) instead of a team like the Dodgers who perpetually mishandle him/bench him/refuse to mentor him etc

Oh man...He's going to love it here, then. 

[Everyday Eddy]

 

I know people who frequent this site are Twins fans, so this may seem like a foreign concept.  But you are allowed to think outside the box on occasion, take a risk... a team that is out of the race and unlikely to contend next year has nothing to lose, this is absolutely the type of move they should be looking into.  

 

No thanks on Puig because Grossman, Rosaio and Walker need spots? I mean give me a break.  Enjoy the 90 loss seasons as they continue to pile up

Exactly.    Make a bold move.    Who cares if we block some marginal prospects

[alarp33]

http://www.baseball-reference.com/register/player.cgi?id=jagiel001eri

 

http://www.baseball-reference.com/register/player.cgi?id=davis-024wil

 

"Outside the Box"

 

Above are the 2 main prospects the Reds received for Chapman from the Yankees.  The Yankees paid Chapman a few million, and flipped him for a top 20 prospect in all of baseball.  

 

The Twins were looking for bullpen help, they could've been in on this... but it would've been way outside the box considering how they operate.  "But we've gotta save spots for Chargois and Burdi"

[Mike Sixel]

Or they didn't trade for Chapman because they didn't want an alleged domestic abuser on their roster.....let's not pretend that was all about something else. It was 100% about that in terms of the price the Yankees paid. At the time, we didn't even know how long the suspension would be. They Yankees gambled, and won, I guess.

[diehardtwinsfan]

 

Olivia could be a great potential mentor. And like I previously mentioned, the Twins may be a better fit for him anyways. The Dodgers are full of proven and aged superstars, the Twins have a ton of young talent (many of them foreign/spanish speaking) that could gel better with Puig. Have him work with a patient Joe Mauer on pitch selection, have him work with Sano on pitch selection etc.

NTM the Minnesota media/expectations/backlash are significantly less than that of LA.

 

I like the way you're thinking here Dave, but I do think you're going to have to part with someone. I agree with your statement above on Walker (he's quickly moving into that trade chip category, doesn't have a ton of value presently, and probably will see that reduce if there isn't a huge change in his K total within the next year).  But you do have a real problem with Rosario and Kepler in the corners as well as 3 guys playing 1B/DH.  There's really nowhere to put him unless you're sending Rosario packing. I'm not against that per se, as his 'improvement' really looks like more of the same from last year.

 

But... Rosario is probably (at least the way he's hitting now) a better play right now than Puig, and Puig has gotten worse after every year. I'd be interesting in getting Puig, especially if it's for a song, but I'd want a real good idea as to why it is that he hasn't done well. If the issue isn't talent, then by all means go for it.

[Vanimal46]

I remember reading this article on Fangraphs about how similar Yasiel Puig's career is starting off nearly identical to Jeff Francoeur. Do you want Jeff Francoeur on this team?

EDIT: Fixed broken link. 

[nicksaviking]

 

The problem with Delmon Young wasn't the fact that they brought in Delmon Young, it's that they traded a young highly regarded pitcher and a young starting SS for him in Garza and Bartlett.

 

Just like the problem with Capps wasn't that they brought in Capps, it's that they gave up Ramos for him.

If they would have traded a FA to be (Suzuki)+ a 4th OF for Young, the backlash would be minuscule.

 

http://laist.com/2014/01/07/yasiel_puigs_arrest_videos_are_full_of_drama_and_pink_shorts.php

 

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/book--disdain-for-yasiel-puig-by-dodgers-teammates-no-longer-a-secret-212239227.html

 

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2597460-is-there-anybody-left-in-los-angeles-whom-yasiel-puig-hasnt-alienated

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UzrwjEsgLXM

 

http://mlb.nbcsports.com/2014/09/24/bill-plaschke-once-again-says-that-yasiel-puig-will-be-the-death-of-the-dodgers/

 

Anthony could give up nothing and sign him after being DFA'd. If Puig came here and got arrested for driving 100 MPH again, started on-field brawls, started fights with teammates or one of the most prominent local sports writers prints a headline saying that Puig will be the death of the Twins, Anthony has no chance at keeping his job.

 

What he gives up won't matter. If we at all think that Pohlad is upset with the negativity surrounding the team, we can't possibly think another Puig error of judgment wouldn't impact his decision on GM.

 

Personally, I'd be fine taking a chance on Puig and I'm generally in favor of a good gamble, however none of us are actually putting anything on the line to do so. If Anthony wants to keep his job, this doesn't seem like a smart decision, therefore I don't think he'd go for it.

 

 

[wsnydes]

This notion makes slightly more sense to me than the Braves adding Matt Kemp.  Even if the Braves flip him, that moves seems nonsensical at best.  Even at Puig's age and talent, I don't think dealing for him makes a lot of sense for a team in the position that the Twins are in.

[alarp33]

 

Or they didn't trade for Chapman because they didn't want an alleged domestic abuser on their roster.....let's not pretend that was all about something else. It was 100% about that in terms of the price the Yankees paid. At the time, we didn't even know how long the suspension would be. They Yankees gambled, and won, I guess.

 

I never pretended it was about something else.  The Yankees took a risk by buying extremely low on a top notch player, and it paid off extremely well.  

[DaveW]

 

Or they didn't trade for Chapman because they didn't want an alleged domestic abuser on their roster.....let's not pretend that was all about something else. It was 100% about that in terms of the price the Yankees paid. At the time, we didn't even know how long the suspension would be. They Yankees gambled, and won, I guess.

Oh please, the Twins built a statue and named a street after an alleged domestic abuser. I loved Puckett as much as anybody, but the fact that the Twins never used his issues to educate the fan base or try to raise awarness for domestic abuse is a shame and a black mark on this franchises history.

 

Let's not pretend that was the reason why they didn't go after Chapman, they didn't go after him because it would have been complete outside the box idea. Something steady Ryan and company wouldn't consider.

[DaveW]

 

http://laist.com/2014/01/07/yasiel_puigs_arrest_videos_are_full_of_drama_and_pink_shorts.php

 

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/book--disdain-for-yasiel-puig-by-dodgers-teammates-no-longer-a-secret-212239227.html

 

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2597460-is-there-anybody-left-in-los-angeles-whom-yasiel-puig-hasnt-alienated

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UzrwjEsgLXM

 

http://mlb.nbcsports.com/2014/09/24/bill-plaschke-once-again-says-that-yasiel-puig-will-be-the-death-of-the-dodgers/

 

Anthony could give up nothing and sign him after being DFA'd. If Puig came here and got arrested for driving 100 MPH again, started on-field brawls, started fights with teammates or one of the most prominent local sports writers prints a headline saying that Puig will be the death of the Twins, Anthony has no chance at keeping his job.

 

What he gives up won't matter. If we at all think that Pohlad is upset with the negativity surrounding the team, we can't possibly think another Puig error of judgment wouldn't impact his decision on GM.

 

Personally, I'd be fine taking a chance on Puig and I'm generally in favor of a good gamble, however none of us are actually putting anything on the line to do so. If Anthony wants to keep his job, this doesn't seem like a smart decision, therefore I don't think he'd go for it.

I think Antony realizes the writing is on the wall and anything baring a miracle means he won't be GM heading into 2017.

What is a good way to "make a miracle" happen?
Make an amazing trade for an amazingly talented player and hope it's the kick in the rear that he needs.

 

As far as him starting brawls or what-not, we complain all the time that the Twins are to boring. Maybe this team needs someone with a little attitude/what not.

[Everyday Eddy]

 

I remember reading this article on Fangraphs about how similar Yasiel Puig's career is starting off nearly identical to Jeff Francoeur. Do you want Jeff Francoeur on this team?

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/yasiel-puig-or-jeff-francoeur/ 

No, i do not want Francoeur.    Still want Puig

[insane16]

 

"it would have been complete outside the box"

Outside THE box, but INSIDE Pandora's box

[DaveW]

 

 

I remember reading this article on Fangraphs about how similar Yasiel Puig's career is starting off nearly identical to Jeff Francoeur. Do you want Jeff Francoeur on this team?

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/yasiel-puig-or-jeff-francoeur/ 

Francoeur had a .742 and .782 OPS in his first two full seasons (87 OPS+ and 102 OPS+)

Puig put up a .925 and .863 OPS

 

 

 

[Vanimal46]

 

No, i do not want Francoeur.    Still want Puig

For the name, right? Their stats are more similar than you think. 

[alarp33]

 

I remember reading this article on Fangraphs about how similar Yasiel Puig's career is starting off nearly identical to Jeff Francoeur. Do you want Jeff Francoeur on this team?

EDIT: Fixed broken link. 

 

Seems like an odd comparison.  They aren't comparing careers, they are comparing Puig in 2016 to Francoeur's career.  I mean couldn't we find tons of players who have had a few month sample that might be similar to Francouer's career numbers?

[Everyday Eddy]

 

For the name, right? Their stats are more similar than you think. 

Sure, Puig is a nice name.    But in all seriousness i'm not worried about one possible comparison.    I bet there's a player comparison that puts him in the hall of fame too

[DaveW]

 

For the name, right? Their stats are more similar than you think. 

Except for the fact that Francouer never came close to the success Puig did in his first two years when he averaged over 5.0 WAR a season.

 

Puig's speed and defense also makes him a much better player than Francouer as well.

 

Also Puig would only need to be better than Rosario/Walker/Palka to make it a decent move.

[notoriousgod71]

Watching this organization attempt to reign in Puig would be worth the trade alone.

 

That said, Robbie Grossman and Kurt Suzuki are not getting it done.

 

Regarding Oliva mentoring him, I think that is irrelevant. Puig doesn't appear to want a mentor or any outside help. He didn't even want to talk to Luis Gonzalez.

 

 

[alarp33]

 

For the name, right? Their stats are more similar than you think. 

 

Puig has a career OPS+ of 132, Francoeur never had a single season higher than 126 (only 70 game rookie year).  Puig has a career OBP of .362, Francoeur had a single season career high of.338.  Their numbers really aren't similar in the least.  

[ThejacKmp]

 

You are actually wrong on two of your major points you are trying to make:

 

He actually was a damn good player in his rookie year and his second year.

4.9 WAR rookie season, 5.5 WAR 2nd season.

 

Even last season with his injuries/issues he still managed to post a 110 OPS+, is that ideal? No, but it's not exactly like he was Drew Butera at the dish.

 

He isn't owed 17.5 million the next two seasons, he is owed 14 million total the next two season (6.5, 7.5), and also is under team control in 2019 to boot. If he chooses arb this year (which he likely will) than he isn't guaranteed anything for 2018, so if he completely flames out (which is pretty damn unlikely) than you can move on after 2017 anyways. If however he bounces back/plays up to even a portion of his potential then he becomes a bargain.

As far as attitude issues, the kid certainly has some room to grow, but let's not pretend he is Jeff Kent. The Dodgers org/management the past few years has been a disaster anyways (Mattingly was a terrible manager) a trade to quiet Minnesota could be just the wake up call he needs, not to mention the Twins have a lot of young spanish speaking players that could mesh better with Puig instead of a veteran team like the Dodgers. I actually think the Twins could be a perfect fit for him and he could thrive here.

 

The issue for the Twins is you're moving him right back into a position where he's a 4th/5th OF fighting for plate appearances with Buxton/Kepler/Rosario/Grossman. And there's no chance he gets into the DH game since the Twins have Vargas raking and Park making a strong push from AAA. If Grossman is included (or Rosario in a larger deal) that eases it up a bit but it's still not an ideal spot.

 

Better fit for him is the White Sox since Abreu is a Cuban vet and they have some space in the OF with Austin Jackson hurt (J.B. Shuck is not going to demand every day playing time) and a generally old-man OF going forward (Jackson-Eaton-Melky). I don't think Chris Sale is going anywhere but if he goes to the Dodgers, I imagine that Puig will be one of the guys involved in that.

[ThejacKmp]

 

Except for the fact that Francouer never came close to the success Puig did in his first two years when he averaged over 5.0 WAR a season.

 

Puig's speed and defense also makes him a much better player than Francouer as well.

 

Also Puig would only need to be better than Rosario/Walker/Palka to make it a decent move.

 

Puig is definitely a better player, no questions. But Francouer is generally considered one of the better teammates around - there's a reason that the rebuilding Braves are considering keeping him even though he won't be a big part of the future. Puig at best is a mild distraction and at his worse can derail a team's focus.

 

I'm with you on making a Puig deal if it isn't too costly (I don't think the Dodgers will sell as low as you think though) but there are reasons no contending team wants Puig now and many of them will check in on Francouer.

[Mike Sixel]

 

The issue for the Twins is you're moving him right back into a position where he's a 4th/5th OF fighting for plate appearances with Buxton/Kepler/Rosario/Grossman. And there's no chance he gets into the DH game since the Twins have Vargas raking and Park making a strong push from AAA. If Grossman is included (or Rosario in a larger deal) that eases it up a bit but it's still not an ideal spot.

 

Better fit for him is the White Sox since Abreu is a Cuban vet and they have some space in the OF with Austin Jackson hurt (J.B. Shuck is not going to demand every day playing time) and a generally old-man OF going forward (Jackson-Eaton-Melky). I don't think Chris Sale is going anywhere but if he goes to the Dodgers, I imagine that Puig will be one of the guys involved in that.

 

I'd be shocked if he's "fighting" against Grossman or Rosario......shocked.

[Vanimal46]

Puig has a career OPS+ of 132, Francoeur never had a single season higher than 126 (only 70 game rookie year). Puig has a career OBP of .362, Francoeur had a single season career high of.338. Their numbers really aren't similar in the least.

Yeah it probably is a stretch between the 2. Just saw the article on Fangraphs, and I'm not that passionate about the subject to go back and forth on it.

[Everyday Eddy]

 

Puig is definitely a better player, no questions. But Francouer is generally considered one of the better teammates around - there's a reason that the rebuilding Braves are considering keeping him even though he won't be a big part of the future. Puig at best is a mild distraction and at his worse can derail a team's focus.

 

I'm with you on making a Puig deal if it isn't too costly (I don't think the Dodgers will sell as low as you think though) but there are reasons no contending team wants Puig now and many of them will check in on Francouer.

Look at the Twins record the last five years with all the "good teammates" - Dozier, plouffe, suzuki, Hunter, Pelfrey etc. - and compare it to the Dodgers with Puig.    That stuff is media driven and overblown