Mariners Need a Shortstop

[HitInAPinch]

IDK.  I think Nunez is more of a valuable trade piece than most.  If I'm the guy trading him, I'd be looking for more than Zunino.  His K rates in 2014-15 in Seattle [in significant number of AB's] are AWESOME.

Only 2 games in the MLB so far this year. 

 

I'd be looking hard for the next Salvador Perez rather than this guy.

[DaveW]

 

 

Keep in mind that Zunino is hitting in the PCL.  His .891 OPS is solid but it's 9th among catchers in the PCL (and behind our old friend Josmil Pinto).  It isn't even in the top 40 if you count all hitters.  He's 25 and his strike out problem hasn't gone away. He also enters his arbitration years next year and only has three years of control left at the end of the year. The M's would trade him for Kepler in a heart beat.  We'd be foolish to do so.  

Catchers with 30+ HR power don't come around that often. I like Kepler, but he is a corner OF who will continue to have to rake to make himself valuable, plus Kepler doesn't have that super star upside IMO.

 

Kepler for Zunino would actually be a pretty even trade.

[jimmer]

 

IDK.  I think Nunez is more of a valuable trade piece than most.  If I'm the guy trading him, I'd be looking for more than Zunino.  His K rates in 2014-15 in Seattle [in significant number of AB's] are AWESOME.

Only 2 games in the MLB so far this year. 

 

I'd be looking hard for the next Salvador Perez rather than this guy.

And you would never get anywhere in trade talks if you were.  A 29 year old journeyman player having a career year (and is a drain defensively) isn't going to net a stud catching prospect.  But maybe call Dave Stewart and see if he is willing.  Always worth a shot :-)

[DaveW]

 

 

IDK.  I think Nunez is more of a valuable trade piece than most.  If I'm the guy trading him, I'd be looking for more than Zunino.  His K rates in 2014-15 in Seattle [in significant number of AB's] are AWESOME.

Only 2 games in the MLB so far this year. 

 

I'd be looking hard for the next Salvador Perez rather than this guy.

Zunino was clearly rushed, his k rate this year  (albeit in AAA) has bee cut in half.
He is only 25 as well, still plenty of time for him to reach his potential.

[nicksaviking]

 

The Mariners would have to be offered quite a bit to give up on Zunino, Nunez is not "quite a bit", the Twins would probably have to toss in a guy like Kepler at the very least or another top 5 prospect in the system as well.

 

Zunino is young, already has 25+ HR power and it appears he has put it togther so far in 2016 (.891 OPS in AAA) 2 HR in 2 games in MLB.

 

I would glady give up Kepler+Nunez for Zunino, but it may not be enough for him anyways. The Twins aren't getting Zunino.

 

I can't tell if you are extremely in love with Zunino for some reason, or extremely dissatisfied with Kepler for some reason.

 

In only 181 plate appearances, Kepler has a .8 WAR compared to Zunino's .3 in over 1000 PA. And Zunino plays a premium position so he gets huge positional adjustments.

 

I'll take a flyer on Zunino, but he is one more MLB flameout away from going the way of Oswaldo Arcia.

[Mike Sixel]

Ya, I struggle with being EXCITED about Zunino right now.....but he is a good buy low candidate. The Jake Arrieta of catchers, maybe. I would not give up Kepler for him right now, no chance.

 

I would see if the Mariners want Suzuki and either Escobar or Nunez though......

[nicksaviking]

 

Ya, I struggle with being EXCITED about Zunino right now.....but he is a good buy low candidate. The Jake Arrieta of catchers, maybe. I would not give up Kepler for him right now, no chance.

 

I would see if the Mariners want Suzuki and either Escobar or Nunez though......

 

If Seattle is serious about making a run, Suzuki is probably the safer bet over Zunino to give quality at bats and bump off Iannetta for playing time anyway.

 

Wow, that was really hard to say. I still mean it, but I can't believe I just typed that.

[Thrylos]

 

Catchers with 30+ HR power don't come around that often.

 

That's an understatement. 

 

Might be surprising but the last C with qualifying PAs as a C to hit 30 HRs was Jorge Posada in 2003 that did it in a single season only.  Piazza did it pretty much every season until 2002.   No C has hit 30 HRs in the post-steroid era.  Even Mike Lieberthal hit 31 HRs in 1999

 

For me, "30+ HR power"  indicates a guy that in 5+ seasons he will average 30+ HRs, not a guy who would hit 30 HRs in one season and then 10-20 in the rest.  Even Pudge Rodriguez (5 highest HR seasons: 35, 27, 25, 21, 20) does not fit the bill.  Matter of fact only Johnny Bench. Mike Piazza and maybe Gary Carter and Lance Parrish fit the bill.

 

 

Do you think that Zunino is at that level of hitting?   I don't.

 

Then maybe a 25+ HR guy?

 

Then to the above names, add:

 

Yoggi Berra, Carlton Fisk, Pudge Rodriguez, Jorge Posada, Javy Lopez

 

still highly unlikely, because those guys are either Hall of Famers, or borderline Hall of Famers, other than Lopez who if not retiring early could have been in the conversation.

 

Then maybe a 20+ HR guy?

 

Maybe, but a strikeout prone 20+ HR guy this era might be close to what Tim Laudner (who would likely had 20+ HRs for the Twins in '87 and '88 if he played more than the 11x games he played each season) was for the Twins back then...  How valuable is that?

 

[King]

No way I'd be doing Kepler + for Zunino. 

[tobi0040]

Ya, I struggle with being EXCITED about Zunino right now.....but he is a good buy low candidate. The Jake Arrieta of catchers, maybe. I would not give up Kepler for him right now, no chance.

 

I would see if the Mariners want Suzuki and either Escobar or Nunez though......

You beat me to it. Nunez and Suzuki for Zunino. That is exactly what a 50 win team should be doing. Maybe add our 20th best prospect if you need to.

[jimmer]

This fascination for Zunino baffles me as much as many people's fascination for Muphy after TR got him.  Murphy was, supposedly, a future all star, already an above average hitter and a good defensive guy, and was going to take over the starting job from Suzuki, relegating him to backup, THIS season.

 

Didn't happen and Suzuki hasn't exactly set the bar high or anything.

[tobi0040]

That's an understatement. 

 

Might be surprising but the last C with qualifying PAs as a C to hit 30 HRs was Jorge Posada in 2003 that did it in a single season only.  Piazza did it pretty much every season until 2002.   No C has hit 30 HRs in the post-steroid era.  Even Mike Lieberthal hit 31 HRs in 1999

 

For me, "30+ HR power"  indicates a guy that in 5+ seasons he will average 30+ HRs, not a guy who would hit 30 HRs in one season and then 10-20 in the rest.  Even Pudge Rodriguez (5 highest HR seasons: 35, 27, 25, 21, 20) does not fit the bill.  Matter of fact only Johnny Bench. Mike Piazza and maybe Gary Carter and Lance Parrish fit the bill.

 

 

Do you think that Zunino is at that level of hitting?   I don't.

 

Then maybe a 25+ HR guy?

 

Then to the above names, add:

 

Yoggi Berra, Carlton Fisk, Pudge Rodriguez, Jorge Posada, Javy Lopez

 

still highly unlikely, because those guys are either Hall of Famers, or borderline Hall of Famers, other than Lopez who if not retiring early could have been in the conversation.

 

Then maybe a 20+ HR guy?

 

Maybe, but a strikeout prone 20+ HR guy this era might be close to what Tim Laudner (who would likely had 20+ HRs for the Twins in '87 and '88 if he played more than the 11x games he played each season) was for the Twins back then...  How valuable is that?

Mauer Power basically did it the one year if you factor in that he missed April. Just don't bring up the 8 HR average for the other 12 seasons.

[tobi0040]

This fascination for Zunino baffles me as much as many people's fascination for Muphy after TR got him.  Murphy was, supposedly, a future all star, already an above average hitter and a good defensive guy, and was going to take over the starting job from Suzuki, relegating him to backup, THIS season.

 

Didn't happen and Suzuki hasn't exactly set the bar high or anything.

Murphy’s excitement has fallen pretty quickly here. But Zunino’s potential is on another level.

 

He had great numbers at Florida and was the 3rd pick overall. He was ranked between 17-33. His OPS in the minors is .918, with 44 HR in 180 games. And as bad as he has been in the majors, he does have 40 HR in 300 games.

[Mike Sixel]

 

You beat me to it. Nunez and Suzuki for Zunino. That is exactly what a 50 win team should be doing. Maybe add our 20th best prospect if you need to.

 

I wasn't actually proposing that, specifically, just that the Twins should be offering them to the Mariners for something that the Twins value.

[old nurse]

 

Catchers with 30+ HR power don't come around that often. I like Kepler, but he is a corner OF who will continue to have to rake to make himself valuable, plus Kepler doesn't have that super star upside IMO.

 

Kepler for Zunino would actually be a pretty even trade.

You would give up a 50+ HR OF for a 30+ HR  catcher?

[SwainZag]

 

Murphy’s excitement has fallen pretty quickly here. But Zunino’s potential is on another level.

He had great numbers at Florida and was the 3rd pick overall. He was ranked between 17-33. His OPS in the minors is .918, with 44 HR in 180 games. And as bad as he has been in the majors, he does have 40 HR in 300 games.

 

Zunino's history of course makes him intriguing.  What isn't intriguing is the fact he will be out of options after this year and arbitration eligible and has still never hit in the majors.  LIke Dave said he has looked better in AAA this year, really cut down on the K rate and his his batting average and OBP are up which is a great sign.  I'm not giving up Kepler for him though.

[dxpavelka]

 

Dozier can play short..... and Plouffe!

Wouldn't put Dozier or Plouffe at short in a million years but I'd pull the trigger on this deal in a heartbeat.

[Badsmerf]

Nunez and walker. Not going any more than that!

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

Zunino's history of course makes him intriguing.  What isn't intriguing is the fact he will be out of options after this year and arbitration eligible and has still never hit in the majors.

Zunino will still have one option left after this season.  He was added to the 40-man roster when he was called up in 2013, and stayed in MLB (or on the MLB DL) until August 2015.  So 2015 was his first option year, and 2016 his second.

 

He also may not be arbitration eligible this winter, depending on if and when he is recalled yet in 2016.  He currently sits at 2 years and 90 days service time. The "super 2" threshold is usually around 2 years, 120-140 days.

 

Still, with his record, his first year arb salary won't be that high (what do you think Arcia will get this winter?).  And as a "super 2" player, he will still offer 4 more years of team control, same as if he wasn't arb eligible.

 

I can't dispute your last point about him never hitting in the majors, though.

[SwainZag]

 

Zunino will still have one option left after this season.  He was added to the 40-man roster when he was called up in 2013, and stayed in MLB (or on the MLB DL) until August 2015.  So 2015 was his first option year, and 2016 his second.

 

He also may not be arbitration eligible this winter, depending on if and when he is recalled yet in 2016.  He currently sits at 2 years and 90 days service time. The "super 2" threshold is usually around 2 years, 120-140 days.

 

Still, with his record, his first year arb salary won't be that high (what do you think Arcia will get this winter?).  And as a "super 2" player, he will still offer 4 more years of team control, same as if he wasn't arb eligible.

 

I can't dispute your last point about him never hitting in the majors, though.

 

Thanks for the clarification, the site I was looking at was wrong.  What's a good site to look at for things like options?  I used an M's site.  An extra option year is really nice thing to have.  

[tobi0040]

Zunino's history of course makes him intriguing.  What isn't intriguing is the fact he will be out of options after this year and arbitration eligible and has still never hit in the majors.  LIke Dave said he has looked better in AAA this year, really cut down on the K rate and his his batting average and OBP are up which is a great sign.  I'm not giving up Kepler for him though.

I would not either, for the record. Kurt, Nunez/Escobar, and a non-core prospect would be the offer.

[bluechipper]

 

Catchers with 30+ HR power don't come around that often. I like Kepler, but he is a corner OF who will continue to have to rake to make himself valuable, plus Kepler doesn't have that super star upside IMO.

 

Kepler for Zunino would actually be a pretty even trade.

Zunino has hit .193 in over 1000 ABs, and he's only hitting ok in the PCL this year. He was a top 20 prospect 4 years ago. Max Kepler was a top 30/40 prospect this year. There's no way that's an even trade.

[diehardtwinsfan]

 

Nunez and walker. Not going any more than that!

 

I just doubt Zunio's stock has fallen that much.  If it has, by all means, sign that deal.  Heck, I'd probably send Suzuki over there too.  Just don't see Seattle selling low.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

Thanks for the clarification, the site I was looking at was wrong.  What's a good site to look at for things like options?  I used an M's site.  An extra option year is really nice thing to have.  

I just google the player name plus "milb" which takes me to their player page at MILB.com.  Then I click to "View More Transactions" (they are pretty complete going back to 2009 or so) and search the page for the text "optioned".  It's pretty easy at that point to see what years a player was optioned in (and if they were optioned for at least 20 days of the season).  It's not a simple resource, but it is usually a pretty straightforward calculation for most players.

 

http://www.milb.com/player/index.jsp?player_id=572287

[Brandon Warne]

I'd aim higher.

 

Or at least.....different. 

[gunnarthor]

 

Zunino will still have one option left after this season.  He was added to the 40-man roster when he was called up in 2013, and stayed in MLB (or on the MLB DL) until August 2015.  So 2015 was his first option year, and 2016 his second.

 

He also may not be arbitration eligible this winter, depending on if and when he is recalled yet in 2016.  He currently sits at 2 years and 90 days service time. The "super 2" threshold is usually around 2 years, 120-140 days.

 

Still, with his record, his first year arb salary won't be that high (what do you think Arcia will get this winter?).  And as a "super 2" player, he will still offer 4 more years of team control, same as if he wasn't arb eligible.

 

I can't dispute your last point about him never hitting in the majors, though.

Both b-r and Cots have him arb eligible after this year and a free agent after the 2019 season.  Obviously, if he stays in the minors all this year, that may affect those numbers.

[DaveW]

Any thoughts on Santana to the Mariners as well?

 

Suzuki+Nunez+Santana for Paxton+ a couple toss in nobodies could make sense, it also opens up roster spots for Berrios and Polanco.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

Both b-r and Cots have him arb eligible after this year and a free agent after the 2019 season.  Obviously, if he stays in the minors all this year, that may affect those numbers.

Yeah, that was from before the season, and was based on him spending the whole season (as well as successive seasons) in the majors, which obviously hasn't happened.  B-Ref also still says Alex Meyer will be arb eligible after 2018, and a free agent after 2021.

 

It is actually impossible at this point for Zunino to reach 6 years service time (and thus free agency) by the end of 2019, even if he was recalled today and never spent another day in the minors.

 

Since they haven't called him up yet, it seems quite possible the Mariners could delay his next promotion until around early September and avoid super-2 with him this winter too.  It obviously would be much more difficult to justify that on a team acquiring him now in trade, but again, his first arb award is likely to be negligible anyway.

[Brandon Warne]

 

Any thoughts on Santana to the Mariners as well?

 

Suzuki+Nunez+Santana for Paxton+ a couple toss in nobodies could make sense, it also opens up roster spots for Berrios and Polanco.

 

I don't have any idea why the Twins would want to do that deal. 

[DaveW]

 

I don't have any idea why the Twins would want to do that deal. 

 

High upside pitcher (Change of scenery candidate) with 3 more years of team control, plus you get a couple prospects along with him in this scenario.

 

You move Suzuki (who is a FA), sell high on Nunez, and save $13 mil a year by trading Santana.

Most importantly you open up roster spots for the rest of 2016 to see what you "have"

The money saved on Santana can allow them to fill in additional holes heading into 2017.