Weiters Off the Table

[mudcat14]

I'm not sure if he was a reasonable possibility anyway, but Matt Weiters is accepting his qualifying offer from the O's.  Since I doubt Suzuki is going anywhere, Murphy must be our 'Big Move' to address the backstop position.  Who gets more AB's in 2016, Zuke or JR?

[Pardon My Dinger]

Suzie.

[Brock Beauchamp]

Interesting. I wonder if Ryan talked to Wieters' agent - I assume he talked to Pierzynski's - and decided to go the Murphy route because the catcher market was closing down so quickly.

 

It's pretty strange. Three catchers moved or signed and it's not even November 15th yet.

[Vanimal46]

Tis the season to accept QO's.... Don't blame him for doing so. Zuke is the clear answer for getting more AB's. Hope that Murphy takes away enough to prevent Suzuki's 2017 vesting option. 

[Thrylos]

 

Interesting. I wonder if Ryan talked to Wieters' agent - I assume he talked to Pierzynski's - and decided to go the Murphy route because the catcher market was closing down so quickly.

 

It's pretty strange. Three catchers moved or signed and it's not even November 15th yet.

 

Not really, since the deadlines of exclusive negotiation with your previous team and of accepting a QO are today   

 

 

[diehardtwinsfan]

Bit surprised Weiters took it.  That's rare as usually position players reject the QO, especially ones in a weak market. 

[Mike Sixel]

Wow, never before, now more than 1 guy this year......

[Vanimal46]

This is a little off topic, but I have a question about QO. Is it similar to the franchise tag in the NFL where you can only offer it to a player 2 years in a row? Or could the Orioles theoretically offer a QO to Weiters every off-season if a long-term deal can't be reached?

[DJL44]

Wieters becomes the 3rd highest paid C in baseball and gets to try again next year.

[Dman]

 

Bit surprised Weiters took it.  That's rare as usually position players reject the QO, especially ones in a weak market. 

 

I agree.  Isn't that a bad or at least dangerous move on his part.  He had a fantastic chance at a four year deal for mad money.  Well he must have his reasons.  Not sure what they are but what he is doing is rare.

[PseudoSABR]

If Murphy doesn't work out, and Suzuki coming off the books, the Twins would be in a position, perhaps a better position to go after him.   

 

As for Weiters, he gets to rebuild value in pursuit of a big money deal he seemed destined for.  As others have pointed out, the AAV of QO is nothing to sneeze at.

[sane]

 

.  Who gets more AB's in 2016, Zuke or JR?

Suzuki gets more at-bats because you can't that that guy off the field with an injury.

Murphy will be better but I doubt if he is tougher.

[Winston Smith]

He was never on the Twins table.

[Rosterman]

You don't know if he had MAD MONEY inquiries. At least he can enter the marketplace again next season, without the draft pick tied to his signing. And he can have a full season to rebuild even more value. Plus A.J. got a nice amount of change from the Braves...the upfront mill, the contract, and a decent incentive package good for both parties. Ryan went knocking on some doors (particularly the Yankees) before other teams had the chance. Applaud him for that. Like said, seems the catching market is getting grabbd up sooner rather than later.

[Brock Beauchamp]

Not really, since the deadlines of exclusive negotiation with your previous team and of accepting a QO are today

Oh, I know, I'm just surprised Wieters took the QO. I felt he was almost a lock to explore FA.

[Loosey]

 

This is a little off topic, but I have a question about QO. Is it similar to the franchise tag in the NFL where you can only offer it to a player 2 years in a row? Or could the Orioles theoretically offer a QO to Weiters every off-season if a long-term deal can't be reached?

I was wondering the same thing?  Is he a free and clear FA next year?  So if he goes crazy liek .295/350/.500 with 20+ HRs can the Orioles offer it again to get draft pick comp or do they have to really offer him what he would be worth?

[Brock Beauchamp]

I was wondering the same thing? Is he a free and clear FA next year? So if he goes crazy liek .295/350/.500 with 20+ HRs can the Orioles offer it again to get draft pick comp or do they have to really offer him what he would be worth?

A team can offer a QO indefinitely. That's why the resulting salary is so high.

[Loosey]

 

This is a little off topic, but I have a question about QO. Is it similar to the franchise tag in the NFL where you can only offer it to a player 2 years in a row? Or could the Orioles theoretically offer a QO to Weiters every off-season if a long-term deal can't be reached?

 

A team can offer a QO indefinitely. That's why the resulting salary is so high.

 

Really makes you wonder then why this is the first year ever anyone has accepted a QO.  If you are essentially a 2 WAR player you are worth about $16M a year.  If you play near that you would be getting QO's every year.  The risk of injury or if the player is really worth $20M+ per year is the only reason I could see turning one down when when their is the risk of not getting paid that value on the market.  I would think that any team willing to sign a QO guy is going to dilute their offer due to the draft pick comp they have to give up on the front end.  Example Wieters declines the QO: Signs with Team X for 3 years at $13M/yr. Or he signs the QO gets $15.3M (Already up $2.3M), signs again the next year now up $4.6 and in year 3 doesn't get a QO and signs a 3 year deal for $8M/Yr.  Assuming no injury this is the better financial option. 

[Brock Beauchamp]

Really makes you wonder then why this is the first year ever anyone has accepted a QO. If you are essentially a 2 WAR player you are worth about $16M a year. If you play near that you would be getting QO's every year. The risk of injury or if the player is really worth $20M+ per year is the only reason I could see turning one down when when their is the risk of not getting paid that value on the market. I would think that any team willing to sign a QO guy is going to dilute their offer due to the draft pick comp they have to give up on the front end. Example Wieters declines the QO: Signs with Team X for 3 years at $13M/yr. Or he signs the QO gets $15.3M (Already up $2.3M), signs again the next year now up $4.6 and in year 3 doesn't get a QO and signs a 3 year deal for $8M/Yr. Assuming no injury this is the better financial option.

Assuming no injury is the problem there.

 

Plus, do you really care that much about an extra $2m a year if you get to relocate your family to one city for a half decade with $60m in your pocket? There's a lot to be said about certainty and diminishing paycheck returns when one is already filthy rich. $2m a year doesn't seem like a lot if you're making a guaranteed $13m a year for four years.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

This is a little off topic, but I have a question about QO. Is it similar to the franchise tag in the NFL where you can only offer it to a player 2 years in a row? Or could the Orioles theoretically offer a QO to Weiters every off-season if a long-term deal can't be reached?

As Brock says, there is no limit to how many times a player can receive a QO, and that is regardless of whether they accept it or not.  That's why it has taken this long to have a player accept one -- if the teams were limited, I am sure someone would have already tried accepting it (or accepting a series of one-year deals) to eventually hit the market free and clear.

 

Kuroda actually received consecutive qualifying offers from NY, declining but settling on a one-year contract both times, and was eligible to receive a third last winter.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

Really makes you wonder then why this is the first year ever anyone has accepted a QO.

Teams are extending more qualifying offers now, that's why.

 

# of qualifying offers per year

2012: 9

2013: 13

2014: 12

2015: 20

 

Guys like Rasmus, Weiters, and Estrada weren't getting qualifying offers before.  This year teams have really pushed it as a negotiating tool, and maybe it is finally starting to even out in the market.

[Winston Smith]

How can the guy feed his kids for $15.8m?

[nicksaviking]

A guy who no one would have thought would accept the QO does, and his agent is Scott Boras.

 

My mind automatically jumps to diabolical conclusions, even if they are baseless and ludicrous. 

[Vanimal46]

 

How can the guy feed his kids for $15.8m?

 

"I have no idea..."

- Latrell Sprewell

[DocBauer]

I honestly don't know why more guys don't accept it. Now, if you had a nice year and every indicator tells you that a guaranteed market exists for you to be X years and X dollars, then you have to explore all of your options. If nothing else, it forces the home team to re-think things and up their strategy, bumping their commitment, even if they are hoping for a home town discount.

 

But there have been more than a few players the past few seasons that have rejected their offers, banking on a big payday only to be left in the cold. Wieters has been a bit down due to injury and recovery...gets to stay home and keep his wife and kids home...gets a huge payday...and can up his value to the Orioles or anyone else with a solid year. To me it's a win win.

 

IMO...this seems to indicate the big 4 year deals for $16M clearly didn't appear to be there.

[Mike Sixel]

If I had to guess, they got pressure from the union not to accept it early on. Now that teams use it to get a pick, and the union has realized this suppresses contract value, they probably encouraged a few guys to accept them.

 

Also, athletes are, by nature, extremely confident in their abilities. They are usually, imo, going to bet on themselves. It is one reason most hang on too long.....

 

So, two factors there

[Shane Wahl]

He was never going to be signed by the Twins.

 

But . . . why the hell did he take it?

[TheLeviathan]

16M to stay in a place you know to rebuild value seems like a no brainier to me.

[Pius Jefferson]

He probably had limited options on the market. The free big market teams either don't need a C or didn't feel it was enough of an upgrade to pay a 30 year old catcher a long-term deal.

[mnfireman]

I guess the trade for JP Murphy may not be so bad now that Wieters accepted Baltimore's QO.

 

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2015/11/three-players-accept-qualifying-offers-16-decline.html

 

Boras must have seen the FA market dry up, not that C was that strong anyway, and figured this was the best he'd get (but it will be spun that he signed it to build value).

 

This off-season may be get kinda boring really quick!