To trade or not to trade Plouffe this offseason.

[TheLeviathan]

Just because teams know we need a catcher doesn't mean we hide trade interest. And just because the market for him looks scarce by us checking team rosters doesn't mean that's true this offseason.

 

The smart thing to do is shop him for what we need and find interest along the way. Teams that want him will call and teams that have what we want will call. Then you sort it out and make it work.

[Brock Beauchamp]

I think it's pretty simple: you target a catcher but don't hesitate to move on to another player if nothing materializes.

[Danchat]

I'd either trade Plouffe or extend him. I wouldn't let him walk.

 

If the Twins can get a good deal, go ahead and trade him. If not, keep him. Either option will work and I am fine with either.

[Shane Wahl]

Target a catcher.

 

From there you see what is required to get that catcher. I think Plouffe would likely be a key piece in that (I could be wrong). Plouffe, Milone, Garver, and Batts for X catcher.

[Winston Smith]

I'm not convinced that Terry thinks that catcher is a problem area.

[Eris]

 

Repeat after me:

1. We are not trading Mauer, nobody would take him anyways.
2. Mauer is not going to be moving back to catcher.
3. Mauer is going to be the 1b next year
4. Mauer is not going to be a backup.

Did I miss any?

 

Maybe.  The best chance to win is to put your best players on the field.  We have been seeing a lot more of Plouffe at 1st base during the past month.  This is a indication that Molitor sees what we all see--Plouffe is a superior first baseman to Mauer.  Moving forward, baring a significant increase in Mauer's performance, I would expect to see a lot more of Plouffe or Sano or maybe Kepler (next year) at first and Mauer at DH.  The contract is sunk cost and should not guarantee Mauer playing time, especially if there are better first basemen on the team.  

 

[nytwinsfan]

Repeat after me:

 

1. We are not trading Mauer, nobody would take him anyways.

2. Mauer is not going to be moving back to catcher.

3. Mauer is going to be the 1b next year

4. Mauer is not going to be a backup.

 

Did I miss any?

 

I believe the Twins have to trade someone this offseason as there are not enough roster spaces available. Arcia cannot play OF well, so he is a DH ideally, as long as this season was a fluke. Vargas, adequate backup 1b, DH ideally. Sano will be in the lineup everyday, either as 3b or DH. Plouffe could also play OF, but only backing up Buxton, Hicks and Rosario. Plouffe is a proven commodity under team control for a couple of years, roll the dice and see what you can get I say.

 

As for C, I am intrigued by Turner and his bat has seemed to pick up somewhat. Great defensively, and viable if he can hit .240

Pretty much agree with everything. Only things I would add is that Kepler should be in the picture for OF, at least by mid-season next year, if not before and that Turner is certainly a possibility, but his bat has not shown enough YET to be anything more than a backup, even with his plus defense.

[mudcat14]

You absolutely trade Plouffe for the best return you can get, regardless of position.  Clearly catcher & pitching depth are our primary needs, but they don't necessarily have to be addressed in a Plouffe trade.  Additional moves can certainly be made to fill those holes.  Perhaps even using the proceeds of a Plouffe deal. 

 

The biggest mistake they could make would be to leave any room for doubt that 3B belongs to Sano next year.  Escobar & Nunez should certainly be retained as defensive insurance at 3B.  But the job must belong to Miguel, no matter what.  He is a franchise player. Plouffe, at his absolute best is league average. 

[nytwinsfan]

Some things:

 

More talk about Plouffe and the corner outfield. When have the TWINS mentioned this, and why on earth would we even consider messing with the future outfield?

 

Plouffe has good value, and I bet the list of teams who might be interested  = 8 or more.

 

The Twins must get a catcher.

 

Sano should be playing 3B as much as possible.

 

I am not giving up on Kennys Vargas.

100% agree with all of this. Took the words out of my mouth.

[DuluthFan]

 

Maybe.  The best chance to win is to put your best players on the field.  We have been seeing a lot more of Plouffe at 1st base during the past month.  This is a indication that Molitor sees what we all see--Plouffe is a superior first baseman to Mauer.  Moving forward, baring a significant increase in Mauer's performance, I would expect to see a lot more of Plouffe or Sano or maybe Kepler (next year) at first and Mauer at DH.  The contract is sunk cost and should not guarantee Mauer playing time, especially if there are better first basemen on the team.  

 

I have to disagree with this. Plouffe has been playing first base so that Sano can play in the field at his better position 3B, not because Plouffe is better than Mauer. Plouffe is better than Sano at 1B.

 

The move of Mauer to DH while Sano gets field time rather than moving Plouffe to DH is questionable, but if Molitor is trying to rest or protect Mauer from lingering effects of the concussion it makes more sense. If Sano could play 1B better than Plouffe you would not see the multi-player roster shuffle. While 1B may not be as difficult to learn as 3B, it is a more important position since there are more plays made at 1B per game than at 3B.

 

Plouffe should be getting the DH time when Sano plays 3B, rather than Mauer. It offers more defensive continuity and stability over moving several players out of position. If the SS-2B double play combo is important, then so should a consistent presence at 1B be important.

[ShouldaCouldaWoulda]

 

I have to disagree with this. Plouffe has been playing first base so that Sano can play in the field at his better position 3B, not because Plouffe is better than Mauer. Plouffe is better than Sano at 1B.

 

The move of Mauer to DH while Sano gets field time rather than moving Plouffe to DH is questionable, but if Molitor is trying to rest or protect Mauer from lingering effects of the concussion it makes more sense. If Sano could play 1B better than Plouffe you would not see the multi-player roster shuffle. While 1B may not be as difficult to learn as 3B, it is a more important position since there are more plays made at 1B per game than at 3B.

 

Plouffe should be getting the DH time when Sano plays 3B, rather than Mauer. It offers more defensive continuity and stability over moving several players out of position. If the SS-2B double play combo is important, then so should a consistent presence at 1B be important.

However, giving Plouffe time at 1B raises his trade value to many teams due to the defensive flexibility.

[DuluthFan]

 

However, giving Plouffe time at 1B raises his trade value to many teams due to the defensive flexibility.

 

A team who WANTS Plouffe is going to want him and value him for his ability to play 3B.

His ability to play 1B will not factor into the their offer if he is being sought to fill 3B.

 

A team looking for someone to play 1B will pay more for an actual 1B rather than a 3B. You lose trade value in this case since Plouffe is a 3B rather than a 1B. He would be competing against all the available 1B as well.

 

A team looking for a utility player who can play both 3B and 1B will not offer top dollar. Because it is a UTILITY player. These are the players that are easy to find. Most teams have this type of player available. You will not get as much in a trade if you are trading a utility player vs a player with an established position.

 

Most teams when looking to acquire a player, are looking to fill ONE position. They are not looking to fill two positions with one player. If they were looking to fill two positions, they would look for two separate players.

 

Plouffe will have more trade value as an everyday 3B, not as a utility player, or part time any thing else.

 

[LaBombo]

Before Aaron Hicks had a single game's worth of experience above AA, the Twins made two trades to plow the road to the majors for him.

 

Sano has 200 plate appearances in the majors that project to, among other things, 40 home runs in a full season.    If the Twins are truly convinced that Sano can play even a passable third, then it would seem wildly inconsistent at best for them to not pursue a Plouffe trade for a fair return as aggressively as they did for Span and Revere.

 

Yes, there are differences.   The upcoming 2013 roster was nearly a blank slate when Ryan shopped Span & Revere, and Hicksie's defense was a plus instead of a minus.  And nobody on the current roster is viewed as a 'can't miss' DH.

 

Even so,  I'm hoping that Ryan rolls the dice with Plouffe.   Like Dozier, he's been a late-blooming bright spot during a long down streak for the Twins.   But Ryan should take his best shot at turning Plouffe into a player more able to help them contend again in 2016 and, ideally, beyond.

[Twins7]

Before Aaron Hicks had a single game's worth of experience above AA, the Twins made two trades to plow the road to the majors for him.

 

Sano has 200 plate appearances in the majors that project to, among other things, 40 home runs in a full season.    If the Twins are truly convinced that Sano can play even a passable third, then it would seem wildly inconsistent at best for them to not pursue a Plouffe trade for a fair return as aggressively as they did for Span and Revere.

 

Yes, there are differences.   The upcoming 2013 roster was nearly a blank slate when Ryan shopped Span & Revere, and Hicksie's defense was a plus instead of a minus.  And nobody on the current roster is viewed as a 'can't miss' DH.

 

Even so,  I'm hoping that Ryan rolls the dice with Plouffe.   Like Dozier, he's been a late-blooming bright spot during a long down streak for the Twins.   But Ryan should take his best shot at turning Plouffe into a player more able to help them contend again in 2016 and, ideally, beyond.

 

I don't think that TR was aggressively shopping span and revere purely to open up a spot for hicks... I think it's more likely that other teams approached him with an interest, and he went for some young, talented arms because our pitching depth was so terrible. Doesn't seem like TR is very aggressive in the trade market.

 

Agreed, though, I think trading plouffe for the right package would be a good idea, to open up some roster spots.

[Brock Beauchamp]

Before Aaron Hicks had a single game's worth of experience above AA, the Twins made two trades to plow the road to the majors for him.

 

Sano has 200 plate appearances in the majors that project to, among other things, 40 home runs in a full season. If the Twins are truly convinced that Sano can play even a passable third, then it would seem wildly inconsistent at best for them to not pursue a Plouffe trade for a fair return as aggressively as they did for Span and Revere.

 

Yes, there are differences. The upcoming 2013 roster was nearly a blank slate when Ryan shopped Span & Revere, and Hicksie's defense was a plus instead of a minus. And nobody on the current roster is viewed as a 'can't miss' DH.

 

Even so, I'm hoping that Ryan rolls the dice with Plouffe. Like Dozier, he's been a late-blooming bright spot during a long down streak for the Twins. But Ryan should take his best shot at turning Plouffe into a player more able to help them contend again in 2016 and, ideally, beyond.

Sano and Hicks are a pretty terrible comparison. The 2013 Twins weren't interested in winning games, they were interested in restocking a depleted farm system.

 

However, if you change 2013 to 2004 and Hicks to Mauer...

[LaBombo]

 

 

A team looking for a utility player who can play both 3B and 1B will not offer top dollar. Because it is a UTILITY player. These are the players that are easy to find. Most teams have this type of player available. You will not get as much in a trade if you are trading a utility player vs a player with an established position.

 

I'm hoping that the Twins work hard at exploring Plouffe trades, but not if the kind of return that it nets is in line with the sort of return associated with utility players not named Zen Bobrist or Phony Tillips

[Shaitan]

Trade Plouffe if you get a good return. Don't trade him for the sake of making a trade.

 

I would like to see Sano at 3B and next year's DH as a combination of the winner in a 3-way battle between Arcia, Vargas, and a free agent veteran signed to ideally be a PH option(/backup plan if the other 2 play like they did this year).

 

[LaBombo]

 

 

I don't think that TR was aggressively shopping span and revere purely to open up a spot for hicks... I think it's more likely that other teams approached him with an interest, and he went for some young, talented arms because our pitching depth was so terrible. Doesn't seem like TR is very aggressive in the trade market.

Agreed, though, I think trading plouffe for the right package would be a good idea, to open up some roster spots.

An All Star and a very promising major leaguer were traded away from the same position.  At almost the same time

 

Sometimes lightning does strike twice, but usually when you're on top of a high rise, rubbing a balloon in your hair with one hand and pretend fencing with a radio antenna in the other.   But it's Terry Ryan, so we'll never know.

[Rosterman]

You do shop him but.....

 

(1) He is far from a premiere third baseman. If the Twins aren't willing to pay him, say, $10 million in his final arbitation years, or tie him up to a longterm contract themselves, that speaks volumes about histrade value.

 

(2) Teams know we have Sano. That means they expect the Twins to want to deal him. He may be more value in a package.

 

(3) SIgn him to a longterm contract and hope you can dangle him mid-season to a team that ahs lost a third baseman. The kicker is that Plouffe has to produce. How much do you pay. At what point does he become an average third baseman.

 

(4) Would love to have him as the overall swing man, bench guy. Sorta like a Michael Cuddyer who could play outfield, first base, third base and DH when needed. But, again, what is his worth for a longterm contract. 

 

(5) You don't want to give him away or let him walk. That's a no-no. Plus, we have to see Sano at third base. And if Plouffe is gone, and Sano goes down, who plays third?

[Dr. Evil]

He is one of our top six players. Keep him.

[Twins7]

An All Star and a very promising major leaguer were traded away from the same position.  At almost the same time

 

Sometimes lightning does strike twice, but usually when you're on top of a high rise, rubbing a balloon in your hair with one hand and pretend fencing with a radio antenna in the other.   But it's Terry Ryan, so we'll never know.

Fair enough, it's possible that the trades were done to make room for hicks. I just interpreted them differently. We were in rebuilding mode, and span and revere were among our top assets. We needed young pitching desperately, so Ryan pulled the trigger.

[CampQ]

If Plouffe were hitting like Ben Zobrist I doubt there would be much discussion about trading him

[diehardtwinsfan]

You have to dangle him for some help.  If you cannot get what you want, don't trade him, but I think there will be some package (whether it's an ML ready C, part of an SP swap, or prospect trade) worth taking.  I think they have to at least look.  Next year, Arcia is out of options, and there's plenty of replacement opportunities in Kepler, Walker, and Vargas.  I think you have to open up that DH spot.  Mauer isn't going anywhere, so as much as we might like to see something happen there, it's not.

[DaveW]

Plouffe + Nolasco for Shields, Kimbrel a B+ prospect and 10 million in cash.

[DaveW]

You do shop him but.....

 

(1) He is far from a premiere third baseman. If the Twins aren't willing to pay him, say, $10 million in his final arbitation years, or tie him up to a longterm contract themselves, that speaks volumes about histrade value.

 

(2) Teams know we have Sano. That means they expect the Twins to want to deal him. He may be more value in a package.

 

(3) SIgn him to a longterm contract and hope you can dangle him mid-season to a team that ahs lost a third baseman. The kicker is that Plouffe has to produce. How much do you pay. At what point does he become an average third baseman.

 

(4) Would love to have him as the overall swing man, bench guy. Sorta like a Michael Cuddyer who could play outfield, first base, third base and DH when needed. But, again, what is his worth for a longterm contract.

 

(5) You don't want to give him away or let him walk. That's a no-no. Plus, we have to see Sano at third base. And if Plouffe is gone, and Sano goes down, who plays third?

if Sano goes down for any extended period of time, 3rd base defense is the least of their problems at that point.

[Mike Sixel]

tough call. I'd prefer to keep him, but with Sano and Mauer on this roster, not sure they'll do that long term. I probably would try to keep him if all you can get is some low A guy(s) that aren't in the top 50 prospect list. I think Plouffe could play RF given some time to work on it, 3B, 1B, DH. And hit at a decent clip. I'd rather keep him than deal him to make room.....I'd want real value in return. So, ya, not an easy question to answer.

[Vance_Christianson]

 

Repeat after me:

1. We are not trading Mauer, nobody would take him anyways.
2. Mauer is not going to be moving back to catcher.
3. Mauer is going to be the 1b next year
4. Mauer is not going to be a backup.

Did I miss any?

I believe the Twins have to trade someone this offseason as there are not enough roster spaces available. Arcia cannot play OF well, so he is a DH ideally, as long as this season was a fluke. Vargas, adequate backup 1b, DH ideally. Sano will be in the lineup everyday, either as 3b or DH. Plouffe could also play OF, but only backing up Buxton, Hicks and Rosario. Plouffe is a proven commodity under team control for a couple of years, roll the dice and see what you can get I say.

As for C, I am intrigued by Turner and his bat has seemed to pick up somewhat. Great defensively, and viable if he can hit .240

I said almost the exact same thing in another blog 4-6 weeks ago. Plouffe becomes our Utility player, and allows rest for 1b, 3b, and OF. He allows our starters to rest without hurting the lineup! When he isn't playing a position he can be the DH that day. I think Suzuki and Pinto will do good enough 1 more year until Turner is ready, and who knows, maybe Turner goes to AFL and really blossoms like Rosario did.

Kepler, ABW, Polanco, Michael, and Harrison will probably all go to AAA next season. Vargas moves up to the 25 man next year and DH's 2-3 times a week and provides a nice bench bat. Arcia needs to be traded! No room him. We don't need 5 DH's!

2016 Positional Players:

1. Buxton - CF

2. Rosario - LF

3. Mauer - 1b

4. Sano - 3b

5. Dozier - 2b

6. Plouffe - DH/Utility - he could sub at 3b/1b/OF and then insert Vargas on those days at DH

7. Hicks - RF

8. Escobar - SS

9. Suzuki - C

Bench: Santana, Pinto, Vargas, Hunter (assuming we resign him) otherwise Shane Robinson/Nunez

 

[MileHighTwinsFan]

Right now he is a solid 3B and Sano is an outstanding DH.  Until the Twins have someone step up to DH (Vargas and/or Arcia), there is little reason to make any kind of change.

 

The real question is whether the Twins extend him or sign him to a one-year deal. 

 

The team will listen to offers and wait for something that is to their liking.

 

It is really that simple. 

[nicksaviking]

In past years, I had never been too impressed with Plouffe, mostly because when I thought of a thirdbaseman, I thought of guys with high offensive ceilings.  It took me awhile to realize that league-wide the position was down, Plouffe was better than average.

 

It's starting to pick up though.  Josh Donaldson is going to win the MVP and Kris Bryan and Miguel Sano are looking like they will be competing for HR titles for years.  Trade Plouffe now before the expectations for 3B get much higher.

 

Besides, his OPS+ of 100 is the definition of average, and I don't like the idea of a guy who can barely keep his OBP above .300 being anywhere but the bottom of the lineup.  Trade him now, he's a free agent in two years and he shouldn't be an extension candidate.  He'll fetch more now than he will as a rental later.

[LaBombo]

 

 

Sano and Hicks are a pretty terrible comparison. The 2013 Twins weren't interested in winning games, they were interested in restocking a depleted farm system.

However, if you change 2013 to 2004 and Hicks to Mauer...

 

Hey, Brock.   Welcome back from diplomacy summer camp.

 

And you're right,  AJ for Mauer is probably a better comp in some ways.

 

But the 2003/2004 Twins were a small market team whose new stadium wasn't even a gleam in their eye, and AJ was about to receive literally a tenfold raise in salary when the Twins traded him.

 

And although the '03/04 Twins were much more likely contenders than the '13 version, the haul they netted for AJ included just one major leaguer, Joe Nathan, who had been just an indifferent middle reliever up to that point in his career.