Out with the Old? Twins Embrace Youth Movement on Pitching Staff

Love the additions made on pitching staff!!! Season starts tomorrow/bring it on!!!

If the Twins stay relatively healthy they should have a good chance of winning the division.  If with this roster turnover and another record Twins payroll the results should be there.  Not win ing the division or not making the playoffs with this team is not an option.  If they fail, the FO and manager must be held accountable.  Let's all hope for a fun summer of Twins baseball.

The Twins are close in their system to having many higher caliber if not simply star type players available in their farm system. The team roster is fairly loaded with complete veteran players which allows the next gen players currently in the minors to get added time to prepare to join the major league team. The last time we had so many possible star players almost ready was in 2014/15. Most of those players did not get completely developed and their careers did not pan out for the most part. Also the team didn't have any developing pitching at that time.

Now with pitching in the minors also developing, these guys may get the chance to pitch 150-175 innings this year.  They can prove they are ready to assume a full time major league starting position later this year and next when several positions in the starting rotation will probably be available. They may all turn out to be 3-5"s in the rotation but I think we have players  developing for 2024-26 who may turn out to be the rotation #2's or possible #1. Again we have staff st the big league level for the young guys to learn off of. We shouldn't (I hope) have to go dumpster diving for a number of years.

It's been a long time since the team had a complete roster coming through the system, even though we will likely be short in some areas.

Regarding Maeda:   

First off, I'm a Maeda fan, and I hope he competes for Cy Young again this year.  Not holding my breath.

However ...

The Dodgers signed Maeda to that incentive-laden, starts-based contract when he came across the pond.  Even though the Twins traded for him and knew what the contract was, does it really hurt them in future negotiations with FAs, if they relegate him to the bullpen?  I think the circumstances are a bit of an outlier [TJ, better-performing/higher-upside option, wanting to (cough,cough) WIN (cough, cough)]   If he isn't effective in April, Ober should get the spot and Maeda should go to the pen and be the long guy until he, hopefully, gets back into form.  If an agent comes along and says "look what you did to Maeda" when answering a call about their clients, they're just being obtuse.  

If the Twins were the Pittsburgh Pirates, I could see this in a different light.

My Prediction: Sands becomes a quality long-reliever, Emilio Pagan’s struggles continue and Maeda struggles in starts but succeeds in a reliever role, resulting in: Sands and Maeda in the pen as long-relievers, Ober to the majors as the #5 starter, Pagan likely DFA’d

I like the blend of veterans and younger players on this year's team.  It's much better than going hard on aging vets or young prospects.

32 minutes ago, terrydactyls said:

This should not be a problem at all. if the Twins decide to move Maeda to the bullpen, they should immediately negotiate a new contract that contains incentives based on being a reliever.  That should have two effects.  First, it should make the transition palatable to Maeda.  And second, it would send a message to agents that the Twins are willing to make changes that are not just beneficial to them, but also to the player who is impacted.

I don't know if there is precedent for that on a mid-season expiring contract without it being an extension, but that's a good idea.  Someone has to trailblaze, I guess.  

12 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

Not one young starter is in the rotation. This is an odd stance, imo. 

In a binary world 26,26, and 27 are not old. Therefore they are young. First 2 likely reinforcements are 26 and 24. 

6 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

Nm.

1 nm is about how far anyone’s opinion gets changed here

I feel like Cole could use a little more time in the minors.  They should have kept 1 of Coulombe or Hoffman but as the 8th pitcher I doubt it’s that concerning.  
I agree that Maeda should have a 6 or so start leash.  If Ober is performing and Maeda isn’t then a trip to the pen at Pagan’s expense makes sense.

There really isn’t much to quibble about on this roster though.  That’s real nice for a change.

12 minutes ago, old nurse said:

In a binary world 26,26, and 27 are not old. Therefore they are young. First 2 likely reinforcements are 26 and 24. 

I’m taking Sixel to mean no rookies or starters still trying to get established on the roster.  But going by age you are correct old nurse.

41 minutes ago, Cody Pirkl said:

I don't think moving Maeda to the bullpen would have much of an effect on future free agents. The move would have been understandable with his velo being down and coming off injury but I think the simple answer is that the Twins still think he could be a serviceable starter. We could always see a move to the bullpen later in the season if needed.

Agree with this

Maeda should pitch where he is the greatest benefit to the team without regard to his contract. We need to field the team that gives us the best chance to win. 

Even if you were taking his contract into consideration...

- The Twins didn't sign him to that contract

- The Dodgers did & used him out of the bullpen in every season from 2017 - 2019 & they don't seem to have any issues attracting free agents

- The part of the contract being talked is an incentive bonus. Aren't you supposed to earn a bonus? If you can't make the starting rotation you don't deserve it.

If he pitches well enough to deserve the spot that's great for everyone. If not he should be moved to the bullpen.

2 hours ago, Mike Sixel said:

Not one young starter is in the rotation. This is an odd stance, imo. 

Came here to say the same thing. 

The Twins tendered contracts to 32 year old Emilio Pagan and 36 year old Caleb Thielbar. That was it for bullpen additions. Moran and Sands are the only "young," arms trying to carve out a role, and they're both 26. This is more of a last gasp than a youthful audition for them. Winder probably fits into that group as well. Idk what to do with Henriquez; he's young, but it's not like he's someone you want in the bullpen at this point. 

Lopez at 27 is an improvement in every way over Archer at 33. Idk if people realize Bundy was only 29 last year. Gray is 33. Mahle will turn 29 by the end of the year. Ryan is the youngest SP entering the year and he'll be 27 in a couple months. Going with 35 year old Kenta Maeda over Ober kinda blows up the youth movement notion by itself, but Ober is 28 years old. Then, as you pointed out, 3/5 (Gray, Mahle, and Maeda) of the rotation are UFAs after this year, with Lopez following suit the year after. 

The article didn't really get into position players, but adding a 33 year old C, a 33 year old utility IFer, a 32 year old 4th OFer, and a 35 year old 1B/DH doesn't exactly scream youth either. Obviously health/production from Lee, Lewis, and Kirilloff wipes out a lot of that, but at least for now, this team isn't betting heavily on youth. 

6 hours ago, Mike Sixel said:

Not one young starter is in the rotation. This is an odd stance, imo. 

Yeah, I don't think the front office sat around a conference table and said, "hey, let's start a youth movement." They've simply built up some numbers, slowly and hardly impressively.

I think they're more likely a third place team than a division winner, but that said, there's certainly room for hope, and lots of it.  Right now, MLB has them #15 in their power rankings. (Cleveland is #11). They're also roughly #15 in the prospect rankings. BUT...

Larnach, Buxton, Kepler, Gallo, Kirilloff, Polanco, Correa, Lewis, Jeffers, and even Miranda. These are all players whose production could very easily be better than in 2022, although of course not all will do so. Even if half or so do better, I'd place the odds pretty high that they're a top 10 (barely) in the power rankings at year end.

Same with the minors, based on two things: 1) They have a large group very close to ready, and free from injury (knock on wood). A half season of these players showing good numbers does a lot; and 2) It seems to be that, especially among a bunch of international prospects, not just ERod, we'll see a few breakouts, plus that #5 pick. And if we can snag a Jose Salas as a secondary piece for Arraez, we can probably land at least a couple real prospects if the FO can find takers for the likes of Kepler, Polanco, and Gallo if a few of Larnach, Kirilloff, Julien, Wallner, Martin, Lewis, and maybe even Lee prove to be upgrades.

Now, THAT would be a youth movement.

5 hours ago, nicksaviking said:

But you know he was referring to controllable starting pitchers, and not specifically their ages. They can't keep trading for starters with two years of control left every year. At some point they have to let their own young arms have a real run at roster spots.

And I think we WILL see at least Ober and a couple more get long runs this year. We can pretty much count on one or two starters going down for most or a large part of the season. Plus, a couple more will miss a few starts each. The likely replacements stand a good chance of being serviceable, which would be a very nice change.

8 hours ago, MMMordabito said:

Regarding Maeda:   

First off, I'm a Maeda fan, and I hope he competes for Cy Young again this year.  Not holding my breath.

However ...

The Dodgers signed Maeda to that incentive-laden, starts-based contract when he came across the pond.  Even though the Twins traded for him and knew what the contract was, does it really hurt them in future negotiations with FAs, if they relegate him to the bullpen?  I think the circumstances are a bit of an outlier [TJ, better-performing/higher-upside option, wanting to (cough,cough) WIN (cough, cough)]   If he isn't effective in April, Ober should get the spot and Maeda should go to the pen and be the long guy until he, hopefully, gets back into form.  If an agent comes along and says "look what you did to Maeda" when answering a call about their clients, they're just being obtuse.  

If the Twins were the Pittsburgh Pirates, I could see this in a different light.

Did it hurt the Dodgers to relegate Maeda to the bullpen?  I would say definitely not.  It may have helped.  It showed they’re not screwing around and want to win.

If a player’s priority is not losing their spot to a superior player, I don’t want them for multiple reasons anyway.

Good players want to win.  That’s what hurts the Twins in free agent negotiations.  They’ve largely stunk for 20+ years, with a ceiling of being utterly non-competitive in the playoffs.   Free agents have seen very good teams hamstrung by being passive.  They have seen HOF caliber talents like Mauer and Santa squander their career.  They’ve seen the AL central teams playing in barren stadiums, televised on obscure networks that switch out due to bankruptcy every 3-4 years.

That’s why nobody wants to come here.  The Twins have cornered the market on yawn inducing apathy and hopelessnes.  I’m a huge fan, but I can recognize that they’re one of the lamest professional sports franchises in any sport.

That’s just my take on it.  I don’t know if it’s Maeda I’d move to the pen, but I certainly wouldn’t be scared to.  I do know that burning any of Ober’s innings in AAA is an absolute abomination of roster management.  We’ll be lucky if throws 100 innings this year, and he could very easily wind up being our most effective starter while he’s healthy.