Has Time Run Out For These Two Twins?

I think Julien is a bust. He doesn't seem to have the instincts to be an everyday player. Miranda might have a better chance of getting back to the majors, but he needs to stay healthy, learn to be more selective at the plate and find his swing again. I think both these guys have dropped a long way down on our depth chart. Sure is a good thing we aren't relying on Miranda as our starting first baseman this year like was being discussed!

Never say never, but the deck is stacked against both of them right now. Both have been surpassed by other prospects in the depth chart.

They are in the "might be time for a fresh start in a different organization" discussion.

In the majors, when a player has problems with A) hitting consistently B) Fielding consistently C) base running consistently it does not bode well. Problems in one of the areas is a warning sign. Problems in two of these is a serious warning sign. Problems in all three is a recipe for career minor league.

4 minutes ago, Fire Dan Gladden said:

They are in the "might be time for a fresh start in a different organization" discussion.

I agree that either or both might be good trade bait - much better than the silly notion floated on the Athletic by Jim Bowden that the Twins trade Joe Ryan to the Orioles for similarly unpromising players - and who have less successful track records, too.

I have more faith in Miranda finding his way back. Julien is just a butcher in the field. I don't see any way for him to become playable.

14 minutes ago, Melissa said:

I agree that either or both might be good trade bait - much better than the silly notion floated on the Athletic by Jim Bowden that the Twins trade Joe Ryan to the Orioles for similarly unpromising players - and who have less successful track records, too.

Trade bait? To whom? And for what? 

You can get a AAA relief pitcher or a 4th OF I suppose.

Neither is terribly likely to become the next Brent Rooker or LaMonte Wade, but both appear to rather desperately need a chance with a new organization.  Whatever the Twins coaches have tried hasn't worked very well.

Neither will bring a lot in a trade at this point, but hopefully the Twins can find another organization that has some similar slightly broken parts they would be willing to exchange, lottery ticket for lottery ticket.

30 minutes ago, Melissa said:

I agree that either or both might be good trade bait - much better than the silly notion floated on the Athletic by Jim Bowden that the Twins trade Joe Ryan to the Orioles for similarly unpromising players - and who have less successful track records, too.

There is a reason why Jim Bowden is working for the media and not an MLB team.

4 minutes ago, Fire Dan Gladden said:

There is a reason why Jim Bowden is working for the media and not an MLB team.

I don't see why a media figure writing a think piece is cause for scorn. Throwing out stupid trade proposals is the only fun part of watching a bad team. 

Mets Receive: 

Pablo Lopez

Twins Receive:

Brandon Sproat

Jett Williams

Ryan Clifford

Now thrown me in CECOT. 

31 minutes ago, Fire Dan Gladden said:

silly notion floated on the Athletic by Jim Bowden that the Twins trade Joe Ryan to the Orioles for similarly unpromising players

Has a national media person ever - in any sport - suggested a trade proposal that benefits the MN team? I can't recall one. 

It's a safe rule of thumb that any trade proposal not suggested by local MN media is intended to move assets out of MN or liabilities to MN. Or both. Often both. 

44 minutes ago, NYCTK said:

Trade bait? To whom? And for what? 

You can get a AAA relief pitcher or a 4th OF I suppose.

You can get a projected AAA relief pitcher or 4th OF I suppose  

Tidied that up for you... but agree with your point. Any interest in either would be something in the area of "sign him to a minor league FA contract after he clears waivers" as opposed to giving up anyone they see as having a real future.  In other words you're "trading" Edouard Julien for another team's version of Eddie...

17 minutes ago, shimrod said:

Has a national media person ever - in any sport - suggested a trade proposal that benefits the MN team? I can't recall one. 

It's a safe rule of thumb that any trade proposal not suggested by local MN media is intended to move assets out of MN or liabilities to MN. Or both. Often both. 

I often wonder when these sorts of articles (i.e. Lopez for reclamation project), if the national media has heard that this isn't the Minneapolis Millers, and it isn't the 1950's.... the Twins play in the same league as the Yankees, Dodgers et al.

44 minutes ago, NYCTK said:

I don't see why a media figure writing a think piece is cause for scorn. Throwing out stupid trade proposals is the only fun part of watching a bad team. 

Mets Receive: 

Pablo Lopez

Twins Receive:

Brandon Sproat

Jett Williams

Ryan Clifford

Now thrown me in CECOT. 

15 minutes ago, shimrod said:

Has a national media person ever - in any sport - suggested a trade proposal that benefits the MN team? I can't recall one. 

It's a safe rule of thumb that any trade proposal not suggested by local MN media is intended to move assets out of MN or liabilities to MN. Or both. Often both. 

Most of the time it is just blowhards throwing garbage out there for clicks and trolls (looking at you SAS). Bowden should know better as he was an actual FO and GM for multiple MLB teams.

Then, of course, I see the trades mention the Orioles and the Mets, and remember that pandering to the coasts is status quo for national media.

At this point, a serious discussion about moving Miranda / Julien would either be straight up for a Class A lottery ticket, or a small part of a much bigger move.

I'd say they have about 144 days to figure it out and hope for another chance.  

See which brings a better return in a change of scenery trade and have the other focus on first and getting it together. Last chance for the remaining guy. Sad that it came to this 

I think both are in trouble but of the two Miranda has the better chance. He has to learn the strike zone which is in his control theoretically. Julien just can’t hit MLB pitching which is outside his control. Given that both are liabilities in the field and bad baserunners I’m not sure there is much point in waiting around. 

Miranda has a chance. But not likely with the Twins.  He’s gonna have to be injury depth (really deep) until he is a trade “throw in” piece.  If agree the issue seems to be in his mind more than talent.  Could he be trained?  Sure.  Maybe.  Naaah?  
 

Julien is a different case.  He never ever hit the bender.  At first, throw him a juicy FB and bye bye baseball.  But then teams saw this adapted by throwing sliders. and he adapted by swinging at the them rather than the occasional FB.  He was so focused on hitting the sliders (but never figured out how) that he completely stopped hitting the FB.  He looked just silly last season as he stared at that down the middle FB on strike 3! He was totally backwards.  

Miranda could become a Brent Rooker but the odds are low. He has fair talent but for some reason lacks consistency.  Another team is gonna get a chance to try.  Julien might finish the season (and career) in AAA. 
 

It makes me really nervous that Em Rod has a similar hitting profile to Julien. I think his bust potential is higher than people around here would like to admit. He does bring something with the glove so that helps. 

8 minutes ago, Linus said:

It makes me really nervous that Em Rod has a similar hitting profile to Julien. I think his bust potential is higher than people around here would like to admit. He does bring something with the glove so that helps. 

Been saying that. I'd have traded him away this offseason for that reason. Best case scenario appears to be Joey Gallo, who lots of people refuse to admit was good but was always extremely frustrating. 

3 hours ago, Melissa said:

I agree that either or both might be good trade bait - much better than the silly notion floated on the Athletic by Jim Bowden that the Twins trade Joe Ryan to the Orioles for similarly unpromising players - and who have less successful track records, too.

The Twins should be aggressively seeking to trade both players before a DFA is the end result. There are players in the DSL and GCL (rookie rosters) who may pay off as a lottery chance. The Twins are unlikely to use either Julien or Miranda on any consistent basis going forward unless there are 4+ infield injuries.

Players like Tyler Fitzgerald, Jeferson Morales, Armando Alvarez, Will Holland and Anthony Prato are all  options to use if any of France, Lee, Castro, Lewis, Bride, Clemens, and Gasper are injured or fail. Both Julien and Miranda need a fresh start with a different organization and trading them does not hinder the Twins at all. Set them free.

3 hours ago, Melissa said:

I agree that either or both might be good trade bait - much better than the silly notion floated on the Athletic by Jim Bowden that the Twins trade Joe Ryan to the Orioles for similarly unpromising players - and who have less successful track records, too.

Both were good trade bait, But again that ship has sailed. Julien has been given every opportunity & have been propped up to succeed but has failed. With the hype still connected to Julien we could still get someone of value if used with another player. I agree, I'd never say never for Julien but for him to come back he'll have to reinvent himself, both as a different hitter & 1Bman.

The deck has been stacked against Miranda. He can come back very easily as a 1Bman but not with this organization. Hopefully the next. Right now his trade stock is very low, not worth trading him.