Dear Pohlads: Don't Do This

4 minutes ago, Vanimal46 said:

2022. That turned out quite bad for the Twins. 

I was gonna say 2009 or 2010 but forgot about 2022.  Although the aforementioned years (09-10) were savvy moves vs pushing chips in. 

Not my money and I understand the financial constraints with the lack of a RSN and the resulting needing to slash payroll.  Even though the younger players coming up had just as much to do with the budget going down as much as not spending.  But they're not mutually exclusive (little of column A, little of column b if you will).

It's just frustrating when you have the momentum of a talented roster, having a good year, winning first playoff game/series in 18+ years.  That you would want to build upon that equity with the fans, get them excited about the team, etc...  Instead, put this out there saying "Jeez, sorry guys.  Gotta balance that budget dontchaknow".  Just like once, push those chips in.  

Sorry about the rambling/incoherent-ness of this post.  It's 20+ years of frustration boiling over.

49 minutes ago, Trov said:

I was listening to sports talk show the other day, national show, forget which one off top of head.  They talked about that in sports, most owners actually lose money in the day to day operation of a team, but make it up on the sale of the team. 

There are huge tax benefits to showing a paper loss. Think. Why would the value of a business keep increasing if it is not making money?

My very focused take from this article is how close the Twins and Brewers are in revenue. Living here in Wisconsin I thought it to be close, but almost identical??!! What's 20 million to these guys??!! Anyway as both are very involved in the playoff race - albeit in AL / NL respectively - it will be fascinating to compare & contrast their organizational moves over the next 32ish hours. 

5 minutes ago, Puckett34 said:

I was gonna say 2009 or 2010 but forgot about 2022.  Although the aforementioned years (09-10) were savvy moves vs pushing chips in. 

Not my money and I understand the financial constraints with the lack of a RSN and the resulting needing to slash payroll.  Even though the younger players coming up had just as much to do with the budget going down as much as not spending.  But they're not mutually exclusive (little of column A, little of column b if you will).

It's just frustrating when you have the momentum of a talented roster, having a good year, winning first playoff game/series in 18+ years.  That you would want to build upon that equity with the fans, get them excited about the team, etc...  Instead, put this out there saying "Jeez, sorry guys.  Gotta balance that budget dontchaknow".  Just like once, push those chips in.  

Sorry about the rambling/incoherent-ness of this post.  It's 20+ years of frustration boiling over.

I think you've said it perfectly.  I'm not expecting, and I don't think most Twins fans are expecting ownership to push every season to win a championship, but the Twins have a very good team this season.  They have a chance to do something, and won't they make a lot more money if the Twins go deeper in the playoffs? 

The Twins desperately need a quality left-handed reliever and could use another starter.  They don't know what they're going to get from Paddock the rest of the season, Varland hasn't been good this year.  Are they planning to rely on Festa and maybe Matthews to fill out the 5th starter spot for the remaining two months?

I wonder what the market is for Duran...

2 minutes ago, JD-TWINS said:

As an illustration, the Cardinals attendance in 2023 (a losing season) was 40,013 per game & it was down 900 people per game from previous year. That’s 3.24 million per year in attendance. EVERY YEAR.

Gray has given up 5 runs in 4 consecutive starts………Arenado is not performing to contract this year nor any other with St Louis…….Goldschmidt has not performed for past couple years. Their youth is driving their season offensively, generally.

Fans come out regardless - am assuming their games are on local TV but this goes beyond just 2024. Their attendance hasn’t wavered since 2006.

Excuses to not go to games and blah attendance when a Team won a playoff series a year ago and is in the mix in ‘24 isn’t helping the spending issue. Not the only problem …..but get out & support the players, IMO.

St. Louis also lost in the World Series in 2004, won the World Series in 2006 and 2011, and the lost again in 2013.  Before last season the Twins hadn't been past the 1st round since 2004 I think?

I'm a bit of a sentimentalist, so I'd be sad to see Max go even though he's not in the team's long-term plans. Crazy to think that he's the only one left from the Bomba squad in 2019. Team fizzled out in October but that regular season was a blast.

5 minutes ago, SF Twins Fan said:

I think you've said it perfectly.  I'm not expecting, and I don't think most Twins fans are expecting ownership to push every season to win a championship, but the Twins have a very good team this season.  They have a chance to do something, and won't they make a lot more money if the Twins go deeper in the playoffs? 

The Twins desperately need a quality left-handed reliever and could use another starter.  They don't know what they're going to get from Paddock the rest of the season, Varland hasn't been good this year.  Are they planning to rely on Festa and maybe Matthews to fill out the 5th starter spot for the remaining two months?

Exactly this.  I'm not expecting them to make it rain cash every year.  I would, however, like them to capitalize on seasons like this one.

And maybe I'm wrong on this year. But man, maybe don't put out that statement about trading away from the MLB roster to match salaries.

I don't care about what they spend, or what they do at the deadline.  I just want to be able to watch the damn games.  Pretty low bar to clear.

Would Kepler be enough to land us a set up type relief pitcher? We need at least one lefty, preferably two. I think that's a bigger priority than adding rotation depth imo...

25 minutes ago, nicksaviking said:

Falvey's hands are kind of tied if ownership let him give out legit contracts to guys like Correa and Buxton one year and then tell them to cut budget the next. 

The off field management of this team is much more bumbling than the on field management.

The Twins marketing seems less than ideal and the public relations related to "unfortunate" comments last offseason added to some poor optics regarding the off field management (owners). The two big contracts (Buxton and Correa) were surprising to many Twins fans. Those contracts likely do lend some credence to what monies are left for other players though, eventually.

I don't know the Pohlads, although I met Carl years ago, and have zero interest in getting deep into how wealthy business people manipulate their clients (think public paying for stadiums). Nevertheless, Falvey has had sufficient resources to put together a competitive roster. I really struggled to understand how last offseason unfolded, but that is now well past.

Currently, the Twins have numerous good players under contract and/or control via the rules tying players to a team. The organization seems to have a decent level of talent within their minor leagues. Now would be an optimal time to make a couple of trades using good players who are deep on the depth charts. I would guess that Walker Jenkins and Zeb Matthews, among players in the minor leagues, are not in consideration to trade. Maybe Luke Keaschall has risen to that status as well. There should be deals available and that duty falls to Falvey and Levine. 

For all the crap we read about Baldelli and his coaches, it sure seems like you nail it with your last statement. 

17 minutes ago, JD-TWINS said:

As a fellow fan (I like activity & spending too) after winning a Playoff Series for first time over 18 years ……THAT should bring equity with the fans & excitement should be there! Not the latest deal.

The Team signed Correa - traded for Lopez & extended - drafted Buxton & Lewis & Lee……,seems to me they are doing things to add to fan excitement and success! The Fan perspective is continually, “….what have you done lately”. IMO, not realistic view of how the Team should be run, regardless of how much money the owners have.

Look at 2023 METS v. 2024 METS….,a very good contrast of Wild spending and then a conservative approach while still EATING the salaries they had going into last year.

I get this is a downer attitude or point of view. I just think realism needs to be part of the equation and not just what the Fans want today being the gospel.

I thought my comment was rooted in realism.  I'm just saying, from a PR perspective, maybe don't say anything at all, through the media anyway.   That likely isn't the best strategy either.

Dunno why I'm complaining anyway.  Not like I'm going to take my fandom elsewhere.  I'll get up in arms once or twice a year like I am now and be right back here next season.  Shoot I got tickets to games in September. I'm a part of the problem.

17 minutes ago, chpettit19 said:

These franchises aren't the same. The Cards drawing well during their first losing season in 16 years, and 2nd in 23 years, is so far from comparable to the Twins situation. "Their fans come out regardless" is ignoring a whole lot of context.

The markets aren't the same either. The NFL is #1 in the Twin Cities market and the NBA/WNBA are gaining in popularity. The Cardinals have the St. Louis market basically to themselves with just NHL hockey in the offseason and a brand-new MLS expansion team during the season.

2 hours ago, Trov said:

I was listening to sports talk show the other day, national show, forget which one off top of head.  They talked about that in sports, most owners actually lose money in the day to day operation of a team, but make it up on the sale of the team.  I get annoyed with all these post and articles about how the Twins can, and need to spend more.  It has been going on for years, since the 90's.  Then even when we spend the fans still complain because team comes out and says sorry we are spending too much now and some of our long term revenue is shrinking.  

I would read article about how much money the Padres spent, but yet they did nothing and they had to take out a loan to pay their payroll and had to sell Soto for pennies on the dollar because they could not afford him. If fans are upset at payroll, then stop watching and stop supporting team.  Supporting team and complaining about how it is ran will not affect anything. 

I 100% disagree with this take.

We are not just the fans, we are the customers.  We are the ones that "buy" the product.  Silence and apathy are ways to let ownership now how we feel, but screaming at them from the rooftops is also another way.  Sometimes businesses need to be told directly that they are alienating their customer base, otherwise they may not see the level of distress they are causing

1 hour ago, JD-TWINS said:

Excuses to not go to games and blah attendance when a Team won a playoff series a year ago and is in the mix in ‘24 isn’t helping the spending issue. Not the only problem …..but get out & support the players, IMO.

Get out and support the players?  That is like saying you are going to shop at Macys over Walmart because you like the cashier.

1 hour ago, USAFChief said:

The '87 Twins added Joe Niekro, Dan Schatzeder, Steve Carlton and Don Baylor via in-season trades in 87.

Two of those worked out pretty well IMO.

The thing about attempting to make your team better: it is as much the process than the results.  Over the last few off-seasons, the Twins made move after move in an effort to improve the on-field product.  I can respect that and want to follow that effort.  When they publicly and systematically make every effort to WORSEN the team, a team that was arguably a top 5 team in baseball, don't expect the fans to be all sunshine and lollipops.

The effort matters!

1 hour ago, CCHOF5yearstoolate said:

The billionaires would LOVE for you to believe they are losing money. There's a reason none of them open their books until they are forced to.

The Mets and the Padres are the only teams in recent memory that have been run without profitability as the top priority and that's because Steve Cohen couldn't spend all his money if he tried and Peter Seidler wanted to win one before he died. Those are extreme outlier cases in all the history we have of MLB team spending. 

The overall Twins franchise - inclusive of all entities - has supposedly been annually losing over $10MM on a cash basis for several years.   Please note the word “cash”. I use “supposedly” because I can’t prove it per se, but have a really good idea.  Regardless, no one on this site can prove it otherwise, so just for kick’s sake, open your mind a bit and assume it’s true.

I get it - it’s not your cash.  And yes, they are certainly making it up on increases in annual equity value. (As an aside, are we all so positive that equity values are rising as much as we all assume? Should a market like that in which the Twins operate have the same equity value growth opportunity and potential upside as others? - The answer to that is no - each of the markets is different, even though a rising or falling tide impacts all ships to some degree).  But cash is cash and you still have to fund the business.  

What is your suggestion? Borrow? Who knows what the current balance sheet looks like or existing leverage. Take cash from the other Pohlad entities?  Who knows how complicated that could be on so many different levels. Just write a check from their bank accounts and infuse cash? Is that the best use of their capital? What would you do given your wealth of business experience and acumen? 

Are the Twins a “community asset” that should be run for the benefit of the Twin Cities and/or state?  Many on this site would probably say yes, sadly and unrealistically. The Pohlads must be idiots the way they are running this team and franchise into the ground (which, of course, they are not doing).

Are the Pohlad’s perfect?  No.  Not even close.  Are the Twins actually a pretty well run, competitive organization that mostly does the right things in the right way?  Yeah, they are.

The owners bashing on this site is predictable, yet still nauseating. I understand it and expect it. The Pohlads don’t make all the right calls, but the deluded posters on this site wouldn’t either.

I really wish one of you would just take your own several billion dollars, buy the club and run it without a care in the world for the finances.  Then the world championships will stack up (yeah, right) and we all can complain about how the clown we paid $500MM over ten years can’t hit his way out of a paper bag,