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Posted
3 minutes ago, DJL44 said:

Cost of the player’s salary should never figure into an MVP vote. I don’t want the best players disqualified because they’re paid fairly for their performance. It is most/least valuable, not most under/overpaid.

Whoever put a team together that included Lopez, Outman, Topa, and the rest of the bullpen - that's who should win LVP.

Posted
3 hours ago, DJL44 said:

Gotta go with Wallner who was expected to bat in the middle of the lineup and was equally terrible on defense and offense. 

Concur. He’s got my vote, with Tristan Gray a close 2nd place. 

And shout out to @The Great Hambinofor giving the honorable mention to Justin Lawrence. He is the worst pitcher I’ve ever watched in person wearing a Twins uniform. 

Old-Timey Member
Posted
6 minutes ago, Vanimal46 said:

And shout out to @The Great Hambinofor giving the honorable mention to Justin Lawrence. He is the worst pitcher I’ve ever watched in person wearing a Twins uniform. 

I looked up historic worst Twins pitchers for grins

JA Happ, Scott Klingenbeck, John Pacella, Jerry Fosnow, Sean Bergman, Matt Shoemaker, Terry Felton, Liam Hendriks

Cody Christie turned it into an article in 2024.

Posted
1 hour ago, Twins GFP said:

Not to be confused with most disappointing, I am not sure how anyone competes with SWR in this category. Arguably the biggest reason the Twins did not make the playoffs this year (don't go down that rabbit hole, another discussion for another thread).

You've said this many times and I just gotta know.  How did a #5/6 starter who made 10 starts in April and May and put up -1.2 WAR cause the Twins to miss the playoffs by 7 games?  

Old-Timey Member
Posted

Part of the MVP/LVP is the expectation that this guy is a Big Piece Of The Puzzle and that's a multiplier for how well or poorly fans end up feeling about them.  SWR was going to be a #3 or #4, looked to be on the upswing, and got a third of a season to prove who he was.  Wallner had hit well above average for a couple years and was penciled in as a starter based on a lot of good hitting, but he was sent out at the quarter season mark. We got a full season of Caratini, who was picked up with an extra year because he'd been seen as a league average hitter at a hard position to fill where Jeffers was a potential free agent. Lewis flashed incandescent hot streaks between deep, dark valleys of injury, poor hitting and unmet promise. He was sent down, was reborn, and then died again, which is sort of a tough metaphor for a guy that has been burdened with so many expectations since he draft day and early grand slam glory.

I go for Lewis because he's the best player. SWR just may not be that good, the new world where everyone throws 96+ means Wallner may just never hit again, and Cartini is a slow 33 and was not responsible for his appearances at 1B.  So just as I never hold hurt players accountable for poor performance, I won't get down on a guy for reading the lineup card, grabbing his glove and getting out there. Injuries and assignments are Shelton's job, or Zell's, not the players'. 

That said,  Zell isn't biting on that slider away, and Shelton is just standing there if you need someone to work with you on your defense. The players do have to address their weaknesses, and while those others may not be physically able to overcome age or high velo pitching, Lewis was seemingly able to right himself in St Paul almost immediately. He played 15 AAA games and hit 10 HR with a 1.303 OPS and then came back on June 5 and posted a .842 OPS for the rest of that month. He can absolutely play when he's right, so it was doubly rough when the rest of the year was a slow deflation that completely collapsed after the Field of Dreams game, where he only managed a .467 OPS in 136 PA. 

So in my mind these other guys just aren't that great and Lewis still might be. To whom much is given much is expected, and all that. And he was both healthy and on the field in 2026, so he gets to wear this paper crown.  Congrats, don't do it again.

Posted
47 minutes ago, MeleMouth said:

What you defined could "meat" (sic) the criteria for the most disappointing player, of course if you define it that way the award could go to the rally sausage. In contrast, the least valuable player, at least from an economics standpoint of value, is the player who provided the least benefit for his cost.

Really sorry my typo confused you.  I will lower my expectations of people’s comprehension and maybe even proofread.

Posted
33 minutes ago, DJL44 said:

I looked up historic worst Twins pitchers for grins

JA Happ, Scott Klingenbeck, John Pacella, Jerry Fosnow, Sean Bergman, Matt Shoemaker, Terry Felton, Liam Hendriks

Cody Christie turned it into an article in 2024.

I unfortunately witnessed Justin Lawrence enter the 7th inning of a 4-4 game against the Cardinals. Then within 10 minutes he gave up 4 hits, 4 ER, and 2 HRs launched in the upper deck. 

Old-Timey Member
Posted
1 hour ago, old nurse said:

The MVP is usually for the player who played most of the season with the team. The LVP shoud have to meet the same criteria. That should eliminate the injured for the year and jettisoned players from consideration. 

Position players who played. More than 100 games with an fwar less than 1 would be Lewis, Caratini, Bell, and Martin. They all have negative WPA for the season. Starters with at least 20 starts and an fwar less than one would be Zebby.  Relievers who managed to pitch 40 innings and you could question would be Orze,  and Adams,  Adams is a development project, Orze had a decent FIP, but poor results. Zebby is a development project. That leaves the 3 position players. And Bell. It is a pickem on the players. I would thing voting would be a tie for Lewis and Caratini 

I like this methodology and I vote for a tie as well. 

Posted
36 minutes ago, Woof Bronzer said:

You've said this many times and I just gotta know.  How did a #5/6 starter who made 10 starts in April and May and put up -1.2 WAR cause the Twins to miss the playoffs by 7 games?  

It would be really helpful if you read the entirety of my comments instead of just cherry picking words to fit whatever narrative you feel like.

At no point in my argument did I say that SWR was the SOLE REASON for missing the playoffs, just arguably the biggest reason.

As was quoted earlier by @old nurse, if SWR pitched at a level to previous seasons, we were probably looking at 4 wins out of his 10 starts. That doesn't even include what the Twins would have potentially gained with a full season of previous production.

Posted
59 minutes ago, Vanimal46 said:

Alan Jackson the country singer was on our roster the whole time? 

 

Well, he probably had more people turn out for his farewell tour than the Twins did for their season. 

Posted

My nominees for Least Valuable Player:

  • Hendry Mendez.  He was added to the 40-man roster in the off-season and the front office never saw fit to call him up.  That's not very valuable.
  • Alex Jackson. He was traded for in the off-season, DFAed to open the season, called back up for three months, DFAed again then brought right back, then DFAed a month later. Through all that his manager saw fit to let him accumulate 73 plate appearances.  That's not very valuable.
  • Wu-Suk Go. He was acquired for cash in early July and was made a free agent in late August. In between he racked up 4 major league innings in 4 games giving up 4 runs.  That's not very valuable.
  • Luis Garcia.  He was acquired as an early season free agent after being cast off by the underachieving Mets.  In 8.2 innings he gave up 10 earned runs, with as many home runs as he had strikeouts (2).  That's not very valuable.
Posted

Lewis wins this award because he was given the most opportunity to perform better. He was healthy. He had nothing to blame but himself for his poor performance. 

Caratini is an easy choice for 2nd place. How bad would the season have looked without that hot stretch? He was unplayable and was given every opportunity to get into a rhythm at the cost of seeing how well Jackson would perform in a larger sample. 

SWR gets 3rd because he wasnt here most of the season like Lewis and Caratini were. Essentially the worst player in MLB this season? 

Wallner get dishonorable mention because of what he was supposed to be to the team. Big bat clean up hitter. He didnt get enough time to win the award, but what a disappointment its been to watch him go from nearly a .900 OPS to off the roster so quickly. 

Posted
5 hours ago, Russ said:

The sad part is there are too many choices

Would.he sadder if anyone of them besides Caratini (out of necessity) is around in March. 

Posted
3 hours ago, mnfireman said:

Lopez haters are 🫏🤡

With their logic Carlos Correa was LVP.

Posted
1 hour ago, Vanimal46 said:

I unfortunately witnessed Justin Lawrence enter the 7th inning of a 4-4 game against the Cardinals. Then within 10 minutes he gave up 4 hits, 4 ER, and 2 HRs launched in the upper deck. 

Felton

 I still cringe when I hear that name or see fuzzy blond hair on the mound

 

Posted

The most disappointing moment for me was who was responsible for playing SWR when he was too sick to pitch? like Ober, he never returned to his normal self for us. Many of his underlying stats never were impressive but he normally got things done. He did well for TOR, but because his underlying #s weren't impressive he was sent down, 

Wallner was disappointing but how much of that was how he was developed? Royce started out bad, got better but after not being used to a full season fell off. As you can see I tend to blame more management & coaching than players.

Posted
4 minutes ago, Andy MacPhail said:

The most disappointing moment for me was who was responsible for playing SWR when he was too sick to pitch? like Ober, he never returned to his normal self for us. Many of his underlying stats never were impressive but he normally got things done. He did well for TOR, but because his underlying #s weren't impressive he was sent down, 

Wallner was disappointing but how much of that was how he was developed? Royce started out bad, got better but after not being used to a full season fell off. As you can see I tend to blame more management & coaching than players.

Ultimately, the players have to perform. It could be that they were improperly used, but they have to find a way to produce and help the club win. I've always felt that managers and coaches get too much credit and too much blame for the way a team performs.

Posted

Well, that's a long list of viable candidates.

Gotta say though, now that I've had almost four weeks (of therapy) to cleanse myself of the 2026 Twins...I ain't looking back!

 

Posted
1 hour ago, Twins GFP said:

At no point in my argument did I say that SWR was the SOLE REASON for missing the playoffs, just arguably the biggest reason.

As was quoted earlier by @old nurse, if SWR pitched at a level to previous seasons, we were probably looking at 4 wins out of his 10 starts. That doesn't even include what the Twins would have potentially gained with a full season of previous production.

Yes, we agree that you have said he is the biggest reason they missed the playoffs.  SWR won 5 games in 2024 in 133 innings, and he won 7 games in 2025 in 111 innings.  So for 2026 - 2 wins in 66 innings - he was pretty close to his 2024 pace, which was his best season.  

In his 2 decent seasons his ERA+ was a tick over 100, with his FIP actually a shade over his ERA.  I am not sure what you expected from him.  He was bad, but he participated in 10 of 162 games (and won 2 of them) and threw 4.6% of the team's innings.  He's not in the top 20 reasons why the team missed the playoffs by 7 games.

The Twins were in playoff position on August 1, 2 full months after SWR had been let go.  If they had simply gone .500 the rest of the way they likely would have made the playoffs.  

It's funny that no one seems to want to criticize Joe Ryan, but his absolutely terrible 2nd half had MUCH more impact on the team's fate than a random #6 starter's 10 spring starts.  2 or 3 more wins from our "ace" in August/Sept and the story could have been much, much different.  

All that said, the real biggest reason they missed the playoffs is they just weren't good enough.

Posted
2 minutes ago, Woof Bronzer said:

Yes, we agree that you have said he is the biggest reason they missed the playoffs.  SWR won 5 games in 2024 in 133 innings, and he won 7 games in 2025 in 111 innings.  So for 2026 - 2 wins in 66 innings - he was pretty close to his 2024 pace, which was his best season.  

In his 2 decent seasons his ERA+ was a tick over 100, with his FIP actually a shade over his ERA.  I am not sure what you expected from him.  He was bad, but he participated in 10 of 162 games (and won 2 of them) and threw 4.6% of the team's innings.  He's not in the top 20 reasons why the team missed the playoffs by 7 games.

The Twins were in playoff position on August 1, 2 full months after SWR had been let go.  If they had simply gone .500 the rest of the way they likely would have made the playoffs.  

It's funny that no one seems to want to criticize Joe Ryan, but his absolutely terrible 2nd half had MUCH more impact on the team's fate than a random #6 starter's 10 spring starts.  2 or 3 more wins from our "ace" in August/Sept and the story could have been much, much different.  

All that said, the real biggest reason they missed the playoffs is they just weren't good enough.

Thank you for misquoting me AGAIN. I did not say he was the biggest reason, but arguably the biggest reason. That is a large distinction. When you attempt to dispute what I say, please quote me correctly.

That being said, you say SWR is not in top 20 reasons why the team missed the playoffs by 7 games. Please list the 20 things that had had a bigger impact on them missing the playoffs than SWR and his 1-9 record over the first third of the season.

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