Alan Roden Should Report to Fort Myers Next Spring with at Least One Extra Glove

[S Bart]

Maybe come to spring training with a little less weight also. 🤔 it would improve his performance.

[bean5302]

41 minutes ago, MMBoys93 said:

55th percentile xSLG, 60th percentile hard hit, .488 SLG in minors this year. Martin career high is 7 HRs at any minor league level. Not a good comp 

It's a good comp for overall production/profile.

MiLB, especially this year's International League, is not the same as MLB. 80%+ of players you're comparing Roden to in the minors are not good enough to stick on an MLB roster. So yeah, Roden's "hard hit" could be slightly better than the average player who isn't good enough to play in MLB.

You seem to be confused about SLG = Power. It's not. ISO is extra base production. SLG is batting average + extra bases. Roden has a high batting average. He has a very low ISO at the level where it counts (MLB).

Roden has a career ISO of .102 at the MLB level. Martin has a career ISO of .090. Might as well be identical twins as far as I'm concerned.

Roden hit 1 HR in 94 PA this year, which would be 6 HRs in 600 PA. Martin hit 3 HR in 358 PA or 5 HRs in 600 PA. Again, twins where it actually matters (MLB).

Rodens bat speed is 69.7 mph. Martins is 69.1 mph. Power comes from bat speed. They're both far below average. The biggest difference between them is Roden tries to hit the ball hard 2x as often as Martin. 

[Greggory Masterson]

48 minutes ago, IndianaTwin said:

Yeah, but if he splits time between 1B and the OF, people will complain about the Twins not putting a guy at a position and letting him stay there. 

That's sarcasm -- I'm a big fan of positional flexibility. Put me in the camp of those intrigued enough by his past to explore the options. And he's still got an option left, according to Fangraphs. 

Like I always say: the best benches have a guy who can only play second base

[MackMan]

28 minutes ago, S Bart said:

Maybe come to spring training with a little less weight also. 🤔 it would improve his performance.

They said that every year with Sano. And when he would finally shed the weight off, he still performed just as horribly. So losing the weight doesn't really mean anything. Could losing the weight help stave off some exhaustion and potential injuries down the line? Absolutely. But there isn't as much correlation that as people like to think.

[RpR]

Just now, MackMan said:

They said that every year with Sano. And when he would finally shed the weight off, he still performed just as horribly. So losing the weight doesn't really mean anything. Could losing the weight help stave off some exhaustion and potential injuries down the line? Absolutely. But there isn't as much correlation that as people like to think.

It means you can start running quicker and longer.

[MackMan]

Just now, RpR said:

It means you can start running quicker and longer.

Maybe. Now I'm not saying that he's currently Matthew LeCroy where he needs an oxygen mask rounding 1st base, but it isn't the biggest thing he needs to work on. Could he get down to 200 or maybe even 190? Probably and it would definitely help his overall health. But I would rather see him hitting the weight room harder than trying to lose weight. 

[Twinsrtheworst]

3 hours ago, bean5302 said:

Nah, we have the first baseman of the future already on the roster. Aaron Sabato put up top 5%, top 10%, top 20% a really high OPS in the minors this year and his xwOBA of .308 suggests he deserved to be top 5%, top 10%... better than average, not the absolute worst hitter in the International league so he's guaranteed for the future!

Why the need to drag Sabato through the mud? Was he mentioned in the article? Is he related to the article? You just wanted to read numbers on Sabato? You don't like like Sabato? And yes I know the answer to my question already. Now can we get back to Rosen as the topic?

[S Bart]

50 minutes ago, MackMan said:

They said that every year with Sano. And when he would finally shed the weight off, he still performed just as horribly. So losing the weight doesn't really mean anything. Could losing the weight help stave off some exhaustion and potential injuries down the line? Absolutely. But there isn't as much correlation that as people like to think.

 well...there is speed..less weight..

[bean5302]

Sano never shed weight to a playable level.

I think he debuted in 2015 at about 260, and he was decent defensively at 3B. As I recall, he was like 235lbs in 2014 and that was a big jump from like 220lbs in 2013. He kept packing on the fat until he was over 3 bills and never got down to a reasonable playing weight for the rest of his career. 

It was speculated that Sano hit 335lbs at one point before joining the Angels.

[DocBauer]

First of all, the Twins need to build a 13 man roster where EVERYONE can actually bring something to the team. All 13 spots are valuable. Secondly, they need to actually USE all 13 players in a constructive way conducive to the building of that roster.

Currently we have no real clue who is going to play 1B. Hopefully it's an upgrade via trade since FA looks questionable at this point. But if we look at the roster as it stands now, we have a LH catcher (FWIW), 2 LH INF, 2 LH OF, plus 2 RH OF, 1 RH INF, and a probable backup RH bat at C and SU. So there's still room to add a 1B and 2nd utility player who could be RH, but that's TBD.

All of that to say I don't think the 5th OF necessarily has to be RH or LH. They just need to be a decent ballplayer who  can help the ballclub. I just don't see enough value in Martin. IDK if Gonzalez or Mendez are ready, and they need to play daily. So unless they add someone else, I think Roden is the best fit. And I'm also a believer in bench players having  versatility to increase their value to the team. So absolutely he should be working out at 1B. I was pushing for that last offseason to increase his flexibility. 

Someone needs to be able to play 1B on a backup basis. And if you aren't a primary starter, you need as many ways as possible to help the team. Roden finishing the season strong hopefully means he's ready to stick at the ML level.  Being able to play some 1B increases his value. The obvious answer to the OP is YES he should.

[weitz41]

I like Roden as a 4th-6th outfielder. We all know there will be injuries to the top 3 outfielder's.  Not sure about the 1B idea. He hasn't shown the type of power you'd like to see for a 1st baseman. AB's wise it may be a bit early to make any real judgements, but age wise it's getting a little late to expect much more than what he has now.

Square peg for round hole...

In order to improve the Twins really need a 3+ WAR 1st basemen. I don't think Roden is that guy. A 1-2 WAR bench player? I'd buy that.

[Cory Engelhardt]

I actually like this idea. I think his underlying numbers looked good on savant, and I'd be willing to give it a shot.

@Greggory Masterson Curious, if you have Roden at 1B (with probably a right handed platoon at points, and maybe that's Royce or someone else?) along with Clemens probably at 2b, Culpepper at SS, Lee at 3b, and then DH and OF so far taken up with Keaschall, Buxton, Jenkins and Rodriguez, my question for you outside of catcher is, what would you do to upgrade the lineup? Where would you want to spend money in free agency or adding via trade to upgrade the roster?

[stringer bell]

5 hours ago, The Great Hambino said:

Instead of trying to convert excess outfielders to first base, would it make more sense to simply trade one for an actual first baseman?

Who ya' got?

[stringer bell]

I'm not overly impressed with Roden's tools--doesn't have plus power or plus speed and this year the Twins only used him in the outfield corners, with a negative defensive rating. As a hitter, he may be able to be a high-contact, high OBP type, but I thought the same for Austin Martin.

There's probably a spot open in the infield and if Roden can handle first base and hit closer to an .800 OPS than .700, yeah give him the first baseman's mitt. 

[chpettit19]

6 hours ago, The Great Hambino said:

Instead of trying to convert excess outfielders to first base, would it make more sense to simply trade one for an actual first baseman?

Which one? If they're trading Jenkins, Keaschall, or Emma, they better get it right. If they're trading Roden or Martin, they likely aren't getting a 1B back that's very useful.

[The Great Hambino]

12 minutes ago, chpettit19 said:

Which one? If they're trading Jenkins, Keaschall, or Emma, they better get it right. If they're trading Roden or Martin, they likely aren't getting a 1B back that's very useful.

I don't think there are any rules stating it must be a 1:1 trade.  And MLB GM is not my full time job (I already have a full time job I'm shirking to hang out with you knuckleheads, I don't need another), so I don't know the exact combination it would take. 

St Louis sure looks like they could use some improvements in the outfield.  I'd start sniffing around what they'd want in a package for Alec Burleson.  Or maybe you can package an OFer with a young starter (or Joe Ryan just to see if they're paying attention) to start a conversation with the Athletics about Nick Kurtz, who has already apparently turned down an extension offer from them.  Those are just two ideas off the top of my head.

And yeah, of course they better get it right.  But unless you're cool with the status quo of winning 75 games every year, you're going to have to take some risks and be willing to give something to get something.  This is a go big or go home organization, after all

[chpettit19]

45 minutes ago, The Great Hambino said:

I don't think there are any rules stating it must be a 1:1 trade.  And MLB GM is not my full time job (I already have a full time job I'm shirking to hang out with you knuckleheads, I don't need another), so I don't know the exact combination it would take. 

St Louis sure looks like they could use some improvements in the outfield.  I'd start sniffing around what they'd want in a package for Alec Burleson.  Or maybe you can package an OFer with a young starter (or Joe Ryan just to see if they're paying attention) to start a conversation with the Athletics about Nick Kurtz, who has already apparently turned down an extension offer from them.  Those are just two ideas off the top of my head.

And yeah, of course they better get it right.  But unless you're cool with the status quo of winning 75 games every year, you're going to have to take some risks and be willing to give something to get something.  This is a go big or go home organization, after all

It certainly doesn't have to be a 1:1 trade, my point is the same I make every time somebody talks about "excess." There's no such thing. Your suggestion was trading "excess outfielders for a 1B." Just curious what you thought that looked like. Because they don't have "excess" GOOD outfielders. They have an aging Buxton, a mostly established Keaschall, and 2 top 50 prospects. There's no other OFer to trade that brings back anything useful.

I'm totally on board with the idea of trading for a 1B in general. I just don't see a path where you bring in a meaningful upgrade at 1B by trading any "excess outfielder" not named Keaschall, Rodriguez, or Jenkins. And that's a bold move to make, even for such a go big or go home org. Throwing Roden or Martin in as a sweetener is not the same thing, in my book. Because the real piece in that trade would be a non-outfielder. So, was just curious what you thought trading OF for 1B looked like.

[The Great Hambino]

35 minutes ago, chpettit19 said:

It certainly doesn't have to be a 1:1 trade, my point is the same I make every time somebody talks about "excess." There's no such thing. Your suggestion was trading "excess outfielders for a 1B." Just curious what you thought that looked like. Because they don't have "excess" GOOD outfielders. They have an aging Buxton, a mostly established Keaschall, and 2 top 50 prospects. There's no other OFer to trade that brings back anything useful.

I'm totally on board with the idea of trading for a 1B in general. I just don't see a path where you bring in a meaningful upgrade at 1B by trading any "excess outfielder" not named Keaschall, Rodriguez, or Jenkins. And that's a bold move to make, even for such a go big or go home org. Throwing Roden or Martin in as a sweetener is not the same thing, in my book. Because the real piece in that trade would be a non-outfielder. So, was just curious what you thought trading OF for 1B looked like.

Part of it also depends on what you're able to get elsewhere.  For instance, say they get a high quality 2B (much better FA class than 1B this year) and part of the plan is to have Clemens be the regular at 1B.  Keep in mind that the premise of the OP is moving Roden to 1B.  So in this scenario, he's your 1B depth. 

So if the plan is to have your top utility option to be locked at 1B because your depth is weak, why not rebalance that depth by acquiring a (preferably RH) 1B of similar (or slightly better if you wanna throw in some lotto ticket minor leaguers) quality to Roden.  And while you don't have an excess of good outfielders (though you could develop one if things break right for the young guys), you do have an excess of part-time/platoon/Quad-A corner outfielders that need to be kept on the 40 man. 

Now you can free Clemens up to be more of a utility man, where I believe he provides the team the most value, and the the part-time/depth 1B is of higher quality.   There are ways to improve the totality of the lineup beyond bringing in a premium 1B, and improving your depth there can be part of that equation

[Greglw3]

9 hours ago, MapleGroveTwinsFan said:

I think it we have seen older/young guys do well at the end of the year, and shouldn't bank on them repeating it. (not that it can't be done)

He ended the season (August and September) 15/40 with 7 walks and only 5 K's (excellent). Against playoff teams (ATL, SD, MIL) 3/12 no walks and 3 k's and 1 Double. 

If you add July against playoff teams he was 8/33, 1 Double, 10 walks, 7 K's. 

IMO he is depth for injury and nothing more, because he seems over matched by major league pitching. But yes he should be bringing a first base glove to spring training, in reality the Twins should be handing them out like candy in spring training. 

Overmatched? He hit .291 with a .376 OBP.

I was impressed with his approach, although you never know with young players, it was an eye opening debut and made me wonder what if.....they had kept Roden instead of Outman, which I thought and think they should have done.

Hitting .291 has definitely raised my perceived ceiling with Roden. But then my favorite baseball player of all time is Rod Carew - I love high batting averages while recognizing a team needs 2 or 3 power sources, I'd rather have Lyman Bostock's, Luis Arraez’s, Luke Keaschall's and Rod Carew’s in 6 of the slots if I had my druthers. I saw in 1977 what that can mean!