No Relief: Griffin Jax Goes South, as Twins Trade Him to Tampa Bay Rays

[Vanimal46]

1 minute ago, Aggies7 said:

Judging by some of the comments from newly made ex-players, the twins clubhouse sounds like an absolutely miserable, toxic place for some guys. And those guys are happy to be gone. I literally cannot think of one reason why he’s not been shown the door yet. Even buck showalter just said it was unprofessional to make the moves he did yesterday.

Joe Pohlad is going full Major League on the bit. Correa’s comments are telling. Paddack didn’t have time to unpack his suitcase before saying everything about the Tigers is better than what he had with the Twins. 

[Aggies7]

4 minutes ago, Vanimal46 said:

You’re not going to find any disagreement from me. We should fire Rocco tonight too while we’re at it. I’m amazed he will likely be allowed to finish out the season. 

Edit: Amazed isn’t the correct term. Falvey literally proved he will trade 10 players away to keep his friend employed. 

Also, it’s crazy how Correa just up and left. I thought he was “all in” on Minnesota? First time his old team calls and it’s “please get me TF out of here”

[Aggies7]

Just now, Vanimal46 said:

Joe Pohlad is going full Major League on the bit. Correa’s comments are telling. Paddack didn’t have time to unpack his suitcase before saying everything about the Tigers is better than what he had with the Twins. 

Right? And are the tigers facilities that much better than target field, which was opened ten years later? Did the tigers do some big renovation I haven’t heard about? Guy got a new lease on life and knows it.

[DJL44]

7 minutes ago, Vanimal46 said:

We should fire Rocco tonight too while we’re at it. I’m amazed he will likely be allowed to finish out the season. 

Why? They're tanking.

[Vanimal46]

Just now, Aggies7 said:

Also, it’s crazy how Correa just up and left. I thought he was “all in” on Minnesota? First time his old team calls and it’s “please get me TF out of here”

For a pure salary dump. College MBAs will create case studies on this organization how to destroy a brand in less than 18 months. 

[RaoulDuke]

If you take a 1000 mile out look at it, 4 years of a young starter that has good stuff but struggles with consistency is a decent return for a setup guy with 2 years of control.

That is the best spin I can put on it. 

I don't mind losing Jax, wasn't a huge fan, and after Wednesday the writing was on the wall.  This certainly isn't 2 top 100 prospects however lol.

 

[Aggies7]

6 minutes ago, DJL44 said:

Why? They're tanking.

Because his presence is toxic, certainly to fans and ostensibly to the players.

Has there been any point in at least the last two seasons where any of the players seemed to like playing for him? They don’t have to like him but they should play hard for him and they didn’t do that either. 

[Vanimal46]

1 minute ago, DJL44 said:

Why? They're tanking.

I guess… Doesn’t that say everything we need to know about Rocco? Guy doesn’t have a backbone to say if you’re letting all of my players go let me go too? 

[Vanimal46]

One of our local journalists needs to stay on this story… I remember when the bombshell was dropped about how toxic things got in the Vikings organization. Where Zimmer and Spielman weren’t on speaking terms for over a year. There’s something deeper going on at 1 Twins Way. 

[madtowntwin]

4 hours ago, Nshore said:

What a crazy mess.  Somebody's going to show up for the wrong team.

Flights out of MSP are up 20% due to the Twin's Trade Deadline moves!!

[Ghost of Kirby Puckett]

3 hours ago, mikelink45 said:

This is beyond rebuild.  This is just a free-for-all and we take on a pitcher that Tampa Bay can't fix?  There is no team that maximizes pitchers more than the Rays and no team that seems incapable of maximizing talent like the Twins. 

Who is that Joe Ryan guy again? Sorry, but this take is meh imo. I would argue Lopez, Ryan and a guy like Sonny Gray have had or are having great seasons, vast improvements actually over previous stops. Ober, Festa and Matthews were all later round picks and have made vast improvements relative to pre draft synopsis and draft position. And the guys we just gave up, Duran and Jax and Varland, that people rightfully feel the pain of losing, also developed right here. I could go on and on with examples. Hell, we were a juggernaut the first two and a half months on the rubber until injuries wiped us out. Pitching is not my concern with this org right now. I'm looking around at the manager and ownership, and I'm pinning 75% minimum right on them. The Wilfs they are not, lol. It's embarrassing for baseball what occured today with a team 5 games under five hundred trading half the roster.

I think it needed to happen to some extent similar to the Wild buying guys out years back, to reset the culture. Soon we'll have new ownership, a new manager and probably FO, and giving them a clean financial slate and a boat load of young talent to mix and match with, is ideal really. Unloading Correa was smart. He is always hurt, wrong side of 30 with foot issues and 30 million a year, no thanks. He was about to start being challenged by younger, cheaper and potentially better options. I'm glad he went. This team was going absolutely nowhere this year. Too many injuries, and the division isn't a bunch of push overs anymore to stack wins against.

Tait is very interesting to me. Cannon arm.  Receives differently from the videos I've started watching, but apparently it's improving. He absolutely scorches the ball when he makes contact, and his k rate is very respectable for his power profile, around 20%. Would have preferred Ford from Seattle but you need two willing partners and Tait fills a huge need. Would be nice if he was a little closer to MLB. 

I also like Rojas, Abel and Bradley, but Gallagher is who intrigued me the most, (maybe Rojas because he is a lefty.) Gallagher is just rock solid, similar to Joe Ryan when we grabbed him. Exceptional control, good pitch mix. Throws a mid nineties fastball, excellent changeup. Slider. Deceptive delivery. Great k/9, whip. I really really like him. And my Cubs friends are quite upset about losing him. One of them being someone I trust wholeheartedly who turned me on to him and said it stings. I agree. I don't think he'll be a 1 or 2 ever without developing his slider and adding a couple more ticks, but definitely a 4 or 5. For a rental, not bad. The Varland deal is kind of a wtf until you dig into Rojas. I've been watching all I can of him since earlier, he is legit. Swing and miss stuff, lefty, solid  frame that could add more. 7:1 k/bb this year is outstanding, but only 40 innings so he needs to build up endurance.

I'm tired so I'm not gonna pour through all these tonight, but the haul is not nearly as bad as people on here are saying. I mean, Painter and Leo would be really nice, but Painter was never EVER moving. And Miller has four years of control, and SD might try and make him a starter so giving up a top five prospect in all of baseball, while steep, he has twice the control as Duran. And Miller is also awesome. That control is a big deal, especially when you're chasing the Dodgers every year. 

[Punto4President]

5 hours ago, shimrod said:

Making room to move Clemens to full time relief.

Sure Clemens is a HOF starting pitcher but at his advanced age he will only be like the Twins 2nd best reliever after Cole Sands rn.

 

[Bodie]

12 hours ago, IndyTwinsFan said:

For those of you who wanted TC to blow it up and start over, you got your wish, as the atomic bomb has now gone off.

I think I can safely say that we are now a AA/AAA team.  It'll be interesting to see who gets brought up to essentially fill out the roster.

A new era has begun, for better or for worse.

Looking at the Saints record, it ain't going to be a very good or entertaining minor league team...

[shimrod]

9 hours ago, tony&rodney said:

The team had too many DH only players.

DH implies plus offensive production. Twins had too many players who are negatives in the field and at the plate. And as noted, the situation is no different after the deadline. 

[Bodie]

12 hours ago, big dog said:

You can send your thoughts to 

fanfeedback@twins.mlb.com

if you would like them to get a sense of how you feel about the last 48 hours.

Or hell, the last two years.

Best day in "the last two years."

Somehow the Twins over that period of time have been the negation of a team!  The collective of 25 men were worse than the sum of their parts.  It was and is, a disaster that is hard to fathom.

 

We have more good arms and pitchers than at any atme in my memory (I'm old enough that Rod Carew and his batting stance ruined my baseball career before I started school...) but we see position players pitching over once a month.

Our biggest "stars" are half time players.  And to backfill those empty innings and at bats the try and prove they are the smartest men in the room by signing players currently recovering from Tommy John surgery to a multi year deal.  Or failed DHs to play defense. 

 

I ask myself "Why are you a fan of this bassackward franchise?"  And all I can say it is despite this iteration, not because of it.

Now that all the dominos have fallen,  I will say that I'll miss Bader.  He is a ball player.   Everyone else who is gone?  Nothing but an embarrassing reminder of the rank incompetence of Falvey/Baldelli & Co.

[Doctor Wu]

Like most everyone on this board I'm shocked by this HUGE flurry of trades. My head is still spinning, and I haven't even started drinking yet. But I'm also excited about a relatively clean slate for the Twins, although this new gaping hole in the bullpen is going to be a ... challenge. Anyway, it's time to promote some of these prospects and see what they can do. And as much as I hated to see Jax traded, I'm actually looking forward to Taj Bradley pitching for the Twins. I liked him with Tampa and I think he will still turn out to be a very solid part of the rotation. 

[big dog]

20 minutes ago, Bodie said:

Best day in "the last two years."

Somehow the Twins over that period of time have been the negation of a team!  The collective of 25 men were worse than the sum of their parts.  It was and is, a disaster that is hard to fathom.

 

We have more good arms and pitchers than at any atme in my memory (I'm old enough that Rod Carew and his batting stance ruined my baseball career before I started school...) but we see position players pitching over once a month.

Our biggest "stars" are half time players.  And to backfill those empty innings and at bats the try and prove they are the smartest men in the room by signing players currently recovering from Tommy John surgery to a multi year deal.  Or failed DHs to play defense. 

 

I ask myself "Why are you a fan of this bassackward franchise?"  And all I can say it is despite this iteration, not because of it.

Now that all the dominos have fallen,  I will say that I'll miss Bader.  He is a ball player.   Everyone else who is gone?  Nothing but an embarrassing reminder of the rank incompetence of Falvey/Baldelli & Co.

Honestly, I don't disagree with part of this. However, it seems to me that the people who brought this team together and managed it to this spot have zero justification for keeping their jobs. If you're going to do it, do it right.

[Bodie]

8 minutes ago, big dog said:

Honestly, I don't disagree with part of this. However, it seems to me that the people who brought this team together and managed it to this spot have zero justification for keeping their jobs. If you're going to do it, do it right.

I'd direct you to a post I made yesterday, if I knew how...

It involved "firing" explicitly (no "mutually agreed" or "reassigned to new duties") and publicly. It involved profanity and law enforcement. Pretty sure I had you covered.

[big dog]

It's too late. They should have been fired last night. Now the same people get to start over again.

[shimrod]

36 minutes ago, Bodie said:

(I'm old enough that Rod Carew and his batting stance ruined my baseball career before I started school...)

My little league coach tried to teach me a traditional stance, but no....Rod had shown me the way and I would not be dissuaded.

[saviking]

11 hours ago, Wedman13 said:

Tired of being in the middle.  I love every aspect of a complete sell off.  Folks that only wanted to sell expirings will keep us ho-hum for years.  Go big or go home.

Thats not what bothers me. Its that Im not seeing fair value coming our way. 

[Bodie]

12 minutes ago, shimrod said:

My little league coach tried to teach me a traditional stance, but no....Rod had shown me the way and I would not be dissuaded.

 

Probably worked just as well for you as for me!

[mikelink45]

9 hours ago, Ghost of Kirby Puckett said:

Who is that Joe Ryan guy again? Sorry, but this take is meh imo. I would argue Lopez, Ryan and a guy like Sonny Gray have had or are having great seasons, vast improvements actually over previous stops. Ober, Festa and Matthews were all later round picks and have made vast improvements relative to pre draft synopsis and draft position. And the guys we just gave up, Duran and Jax and Varland, that people rightfully feel the pain of losing, also developed right here. I could go on and on with examples. Hell, we were a juggernaut the first two and a half months on the rubber until injuries wiped us out. Pitching is not my concern with this org right now. I'm looking around at the manager and ownership, and I'm pinning 75% minimum right on them. The Wilfs they are not, lol. It's embarrassing for baseball what occured today with a team 5 games under five hundred trading half the roster.

I think it needed to happen to some extent similar to the Wild buying guys out years back, to reset the culture. Soon we'll have new ownership, a new manager and probably FO, and giving them a clean financial slate and a boat load of young talent to mix and match with, is ideal really. Unloading Correa was smart. He is always hurt, wrong side of 30 with foot issues and 30 million a year, no thanks. He was about to start being challenged by younger, cheaper and potentially better options. I'm glad he went. This team was going absolutely nowhere this year. Too many injuries, and the division isn't a bunch of push overs anymore to stack wins against.

Tait is very interesting to me. Cannon arm.  Receives differently from the videos I've started watching, but apparently it's improving. He absolutely scorches the ball when he makes contact, and his k rate is very respectable for his power profile, around 20%. Would have preferred Ford from Seattle but you need two willing partners and Tait fills a huge need. Would be nice if he was a little closer to MLB. 

I also like Rojas, Abel and Bradley, but Gallagher is who intrigued me the most, (maybe Rojas because he is a lefty.) Gallagher is just rock solid, similar to Joe Ryan when we grabbed him. Exceptional control, good pitch mix. Throws a mid nineties fastball, excellent changeup. Slider. Deceptive delivery. Great k/9, whip. I really really like him. And my Cubs friends are quite upset about losing him. One of them being someone I trust wholeheartedly who turned me on to him and said it stings. I agree. I don't think he'll be a 1 or 2 ever without developing his slider and adding a couple more ticks, but definitely a 4 or 5. For a rental, not bad. The Varland deal is kind of a wtf until you dig into Rojas. I've been watching all I can of him since earlier, he is legit. Swing and miss stuff, lefty, solid  frame that could add more. 7:1 k/bb this year is outstanding, but only 40 innings so he needs to build up endurance.

I'm tired so I'm not gonna pour through all these tonight, but the haul is not nearly as bad as people on here are saying. I mean, Painter and Leo would be really nice, but Painter was never EVER moving. And Miller has four years of control, and SD might try and make him a starter so giving up a top five prospect in all of baseball, while steep, he has twice the control as Duran. And Miller is also awesome. That control is a big deal, especially when you're chasing the Dodgers every year. 

I won't debate the take you have except to say that Eno Sarris on Athletic had this paragraph today, "He’s gotten poor prospect grades for his command in the past, but his location numbers weren’t a problem this year. He’s absolutely going to be interesting if he gets some starts for the Twins over the next few weeks, especially since the Twins are an underrated team for pitching development."  

[jimbo92107]

Sad commentary that the most entertaining thing the Twins have done all year was to sell off half the team. However, as fans we must acknowledge the undying TRVTH of baseball: It's a little kid's game played by young men. As such, it requires periodic revolutions. Sometimes management must mash that RESET button and watch the pokey old Windows machine reboot...

Speaking of which, where can I buy a cheap new Windows 11 computer? 

And a cheap new G5 phone?

But I digress...

Perhaps it is best to remind ourselves why we come here. Baseball, like life (sigh), is not about the destination, but the journey. TD is a good place to keep tabs on stuff we kinda sorta wished we could still do, like throw at that sizzling sixty, swing a bat hard enough to break a lamp, run fast enough to catch a bus, etc. 

Well, you can't be tweny on Shuger Mountin, and you can't be forty in TV baseball. The ushers and the barkers move us along, but at least we can still sit in the bleachers and yay-rah-rah for a while. That kind of entertainment does require an influx of new blood now and again.

It has begun. May it be entertaining. 

[P Meyer]

12 hours ago, Aggies7 said:

Why in the world did they extend the manager if these were the moves that were going to be made? Why didn’t they just wait? Or is he just coming back for another lame duck season? Why would you want anyone who touched this team you just tore apart to be around a basically new roster?

Because apathy has kicked in for him as well. He knows he is a lame duck who will be fired as soon as a new owner buys the team. 

[P Meyer]

11 hours ago, Aggies7 said:

Right? And are the tigers facilities that much better than target field, which was opened ten years later? Did the tigers do some big renovation I haven’t heard about? Guy got a new lease on life and knows it.

It's the ancillary things. Food. Treatment. Goals. Those are the differences. Very similar to why the Vikings always rank so high in player surveys. Guys like it when the owner invests in infrastructure. 

[Jeff K]

16 hours ago, NYCTK said:

Happy for Jax. If he still wants the Rays will give him another chance to start. 

And he was clearly done with Rocco (like us all). 

Let's not forget just how absurdly Rocco handled putting him in...then taking him out (for Clemens) and then removing Castro from the game.  A masterly performance from Rocco.  I bet he got a phone call in the dugout asking why he was pitching Jax and playing castro.

[bunsen82]

After looking at everything . . .  honestly I think this is a very good trade for the Twins.  You got a starter with 4+ years of control that has the upside to be a #2 or #3 starter for 2+ years of Jax (reliever).  I could see Tampa  trying to convert him to starter in the offseason,  otherwise for now he is their closer.  

Matthews, Festa, Abel and Bradley are going to get a lot of run time to see if they can become solid pieces for the rotation.   Hitting on 2 to 3 would be a great outcome.   We are just increasing our chances of trying to find something good.  

[Dantes929]

I'm probably in the minority when I say this but I thought the Twins had the necessary talent to do well this year but that it is up to the players to have good years and Jax is exhibit A for that not happening.    I didn't get a Twins package so I would look at highlights and MLB summaries and it seemed every time they lost a lead late Jax was in the middle of it.   Other players had off years but Jax just seemed to destroy momentum on a constant basis.   Not saying I'm glad he's gone because he is capable but I am saying a good year from him would have given us a lot more wins this year instead of just being deflating.

[BillyBallLives]

19 hours ago, DJwessmix said:

absolutely no bullpen

It's a disaster waiting to happen...No bullpen and the way Rocco burns thru guys.....it's going to be an interesting painful 2 months.....if anyone is left to watch.