Guardians 4, Twins 3: Yet Another Wet Slap

[Patzky]

10 hours ago, Patzky said:

There are always holes in the lineup at inopportune times. Today Larnach has a gaping donut but Lee and Buxton came up short at key times too. Amy time you start off with Kody Clemens it's not going to be a great day.

Jake Burger? Dfa.. at this point why not?

[TwinsDr2021]

9 hours ago, IndianaTwin said:

I was thinking the same while listening, though radio guys also talked about the basepaths being greatly slowed down because of all the diamond dust getting dumped on the field. Sounded like it wasn’t a great throw and Bader still got thrown out. 

and yet Ramirez stole second on a pitch out and was trying for third on the winning hit. (Bader did look like a slipped a bit)

[Doctor Gast]

2 things that I scratch my head on with this organization is their determination to showcase their new acquisitions & place players where they don't belong. Case in point, Clemens is played too often & he's not an OFer. I get that players need rest, but in-house Keirsey isn't overused, actually, he needs a lot more regular ABs. He makes a great play in the OF & then after being pumped, he's pulled? & Clemens is played over him in yesterday's game?

Yesterday, the Twins out-hit CLE 13 to 6. France got 3 hits but came up empty when we needed them. We had base loaded & came up empty. It's not about how many hits or HRs you get, it's when you get them that counts. The 1st 2 games with ATL were winnable; if we had won those games with momentum, we could have won the 3rd. All the games with CLE were winnable. It's the little things that make the difference in close games. We need to do the little things we aren't doing well. Better player evaluation, fundamentals, in-game decisions, and maintaining the fire. CLE wins because they can & they develop better in-house players. When we had in-house player Keaschal with us & the Twins encouraged him, that added to the team's chemistry & fire. We need to do that with all our in-house players.

In the last 14 games, we were 6-8. IMO, we could have been 12-2.

[JD-TWINS]

11 hours ago, NYCTK said:

Yeah, how so many fans deluded themselves into thinking this team was a quasi contender. This team never had any positional depth. Even if the roster was fully healthy, they're still rostering, and therefore playing, the likes of Keirsey and Gasper and regularly starting replacement level players like Julien, Miranda, Larnach, and France. 

How the projections didn't see that massive lack of depth and get to 77-78 wins is a puzzle. 

I don’t think there are many/any organizations that can deal with 4 of Top 13 position players being out………Wallner - Lewis - Keaschall - Castro are in Team’s Top 8 guys.

Miranda is gone & Kiersey & Clemons & Gasper will be gone soon………Julien is potentially secure BUT Bride/Castro combination & certainly Keaschall will probably displace him w/o a significant consistency of offensive output kicking in soon.

France (IMO to date) is like a higher performing Carlos Santana of 2024 (under appreciated)……… offensively.

118 OPS+ - .352 OBP - leads Team with 18 RBI

Hit the ball hard for outs in a handful of games I’ve seen over last couple weeks. He seems to be capable of hitting .250 & .320 OBP with a bunch of doubles. He’s heading toward 85RBI assuming some regression.

[Patzky]

1 hour ago, TwinsDr2021 said:

and yet Ramirez stole second on a pitch out and was trying for third on the winning hit. (Bader did look like a slipped a bit)

Bader's speedy draft must have dried out the infield for Ramirez.  🤭

[MMMordabito]

It appears Rocco and Falvey have created TD accounts to give the two thumbs up entries to the job Rocco is doing. 

[IndianaTwin]

1 hour ago, TwinsDr2021 said:

and yet Ramirez stole second on a pitch out and was trying for third on the winning hit. (Bader did look like a slipped a bit)

He got to do it against the Twins pitcher and catcher, however. 😄

[Woof Bronzer]

3 hours ago, IndianaTwin said:

I’ve also argued that Buxton spends comparatively little time on first. He has enough power that people have to play him deep. When they do, there’s an even greater likelihood of him turning singles into doubles.

For comparison, here’s Correa’s spray chart of career doubles. 

He has many more doubles than Buxton because of having 60 percent more plate appearances, but for him to get a double it has to be down line or deep in the gap. 

By comparison, here’s Buxton’s:

Look at how less concentrated on certain areas it is. I especially notice the number of “singles” to short left center that Buxton turned into doubles. 

What's most impressive from the charts is how many foul ball doubles both guys had!

[Woof Bronzer]

Something I've been trying to figure out.  Professional baseball players have been playing baseball their whole lives.  From youth through high school they are usually the best player on the team, and are the best at fundamentals.  College ball has not yet fully sold out to sabermetrics, and often features plenty of small ball.  Point being - these players spend years practicing and perfecting fundamentals.,

So how is it possible that once these players - again, some of the best athletes in the world at playing this game - reach the Twins they are incapable of doing the little things?   The field is the same, the bases are still 90 feet away - the game is basically unchanged once a player graduates from tee ball.    I assume part of it is the Twins direct their players NOT to advance runners, hit sac flies, bunt, etc - just swing for homers every at bat regardless of game context - but that wouldn't explain why the team can't convert a cutoff play or run the bases.  Are the players just forgetting how to do the basics?  Or are the basics somehow coached out of Twins prospects as they move through the system?  Do they literally never practice these things?

Say what you want about the Ryan/Gardy regime, but at least they understood that a mid market team like the Twins cannot afford to give games away due to fundamentals.  And fundamentals are cheap:  you'll pay a steep premium for homers (big market teams will often price mid market teams out of the market altogether) but guys who simply don't give away outs can be easily and inexpensively had.  

[Linus]

12 hours ago, USAFChief said:

There are several other possible outcomes if Lee breaks for third on contact when France breaks for home.

The two most likely:

If the ground ball is to third, as in this case, and the third baseman throws home, we end up with 1st and 3rd, one out. Still can score a run without a hit.

If the 3rd baseman elects the easy out and simply waits to tag Lee, we score a run.

If you're gonna run the contact play in that situation,  both runners need to run.

I don't know who effed up in this case, whether the contact play was on. I suspect it was, with Clemens and Vazquez due up.

I do know that baserunning is a pretty consistent team weskness. 

This is correct. Part of the calculus of the contact play is the other runners moving up even if the runner at home is out. When that doesn’t happen the contact play is no longer as effective. 
On a related note this is my biggest beef about the way the Twins use analytics. They adhere to them rigidly regardless of situation. I’m not putting the contact play on with France at third or the other night when Lee was sent on the contact play and was out by a mile. 

[IndianaTwin]

25 minutes ago, Woof Bronzer said:

What's most impressive from the charts is how many foul ball doubles both guys had!

🤣

I was wondering about that too. I don't completely know how these charts work. Are those where the ball was actually picked up? As in, a ball down the line that goes foul after passing the base? That's all I could come up with as an explanation. 

 

But it sure would be helpful for Buxton to have that extra space. Are you familiar with Vintage Base Ball, which plays by rules from the 1800s? In the version I played, fair/foul was determined by where the ball first hit the ground, ignoring whether it was past first or third base. There's also no batter's box and you can request location on pitches. Batting right-handed, I would ask for a short pitch on the outside corner, slide forward and smack down on the ball. If I did it right, the first bounce would be just inside the third-base line and then go way into foul territory from there. Even with my (lack of) speed, it was a guaranteed hit if I could pull it off.

[Woof Bronzer]

3 minutes ago, IndianaTwin said:

Are you familiar with Vintage Base Ball, which plays by rules from the 1800s? In the version I played, fair/foul was determined by where the ball first hit the ground, ignoring whether it was past first or third base. There's also no batter's box and you can request location on pitches. Batting right-handed, I would ask for a short pitch on the outside corner, slide forward and smack down on the ball. If I did it right, the first bounce would be just inside the third-base line and then go way into foul territory from there. Even with my (lack of) speed, it was a guaranteed hit if I could pull it off.

I am not aware of this!  Wild.  I am off down an internet rabbit hole to learn more!

[David Maro]

Just another game where they decided to not play baseball. Watching Cleveland do all the little things and the Twins not. How do you lose a game when you have 12 hits to Cleveland 2 hits going into the 9th inning. They seem to find a way to keep giving games away. This has to go on Rocco and he has to go. How many extra inning games has he let slip away.

[NYCTK]

2 hours ago, Doctor Gast said:

2 things that I scratch my head on with this organization is their determination to showcase their new acquisitions & place players where they don't belong. Case in point, Clemens is played too often & he's not an OFer.

Let's be honest, this isn't a new acquisition thing. They keep insisting that Austin Martin is an OF. 

 

2 hours ago, Doctor Gast said:

Keirsey isn't overused, actually, he needs a lot more regular ABs.

Does he? He's...not good. But I guess compared to Clemens, sure. Give him ABs. 

 

1 hour ago, JD-TWINS said:

I don’t think there are many/any organizations that can deal with 4 of Top 13 position players being out………Wallner - Lewis - Keaschall - Castro are in Team’s Top 8 guys.

Let's be honest, the Twins haven't dealt with more injuries than the average team. My point was they were incredibly thin to begin the season, and therefore uniquely unprepared for any sort of absence from a contributor (with the exception of OF thanks to the great free agent signing of 4th OF Bader).

I did count wrong, so Gasper probably wouldn't have made the club out of Spring Training with a fully healthy Twins team, but no team should ever expect to be fully healthy. And then, even so, DaShawn Keirsey was slated to be on the roster of a fully healthy Minnesota Twins. I'm happy he's getting some major league paychecks, but no contender would have him on their 26 man roster, and probably not even on their 40 man (unless ravaged by injury). 

This team's position player depth was razor thin, and the team is playing up to the standards the front office set. 

[DJL44]

9 minutes ago, David Maro said:

How do you lose a game when you have 12 hits to Cleveland 2 hits going into the 9th inning. 

That's what happens when your batters don't have any power. Bottom 5 in HR.

[thelanges5]

Even the umps tried to help us win yesterday. 
 

[NYCTK]

2 minutes ago, thelanges5 said:

Even the umps tried to help us win yesterday. 
 

It's actually incredibly how much better the umpires have gotten at balls and strikes over the last 30 years. That being said, they will implement the challenge system in coming years and I hope they do so wisely. 

[DJL44]

7 minutes ago, NYCTK said:

DaShawn Keirsey was slated to be on the roster of a fully healthy Minnesota Twins. I'm happy he's getting some major league paychecks, but no contender would have him on their 26 man roster, and probably not even on their 40 man (unless ravaged by injury). 

This team's position player depth was razor thin, and the team is playing up to the standards the front office set. 

I'm not really happy when I watch DaShawn Keirsey struggle to get the ball out of the infield. He has failed to meet my pessimistic expectations. I don't know why anyone would lobby to get him more at-bats. Kody Clemens is not good, but he's been twice as good as Keirsey.

[Mike Sixel]

12 hours ago, einkleinerknabe said:

The Twins TV crew was talking about this today. Buxton has never stolen third base in the majors, and has only tried to steal third once (in 2016).

Wow. 

[USAFChief]

5 hours ago, Linus said:

This is correct. Part of the calculus of the contact play is the other runners moving up even if the runner at home is out. When that doesn’t happen the contact play is no longer as effective. 
On a related note this is my biggest beef about the way the Twins use analytics. They adhere to them rigidly regardless of situation. I’m not putting the contact play on with France at third or the other night when Lee was sent on the contact play and was out by a mile. 

Somehow, one person found reason to downvote  this.

Not sure how, it's pretty simple stuff.

[mickster]

As much as I can't believe I am stating this.    Nick Gordon was just released.    He is an upgrade over Clemens, so pick him up.   OF/IF help until injured players return.

[jkcarew]

17 hours ago, JD-TWINS said:

Have you missed the perpetual injuries he’s had…….hip - knee - hip - knee - knee - etc. - etc……… it’s not that wild.

But when healthy, the organization has treated him like fine china…until this year, which has been refreshing.

Still, there’s the poor OBP…which features few walks and few singles.