Does The Twins' Handling of Randy Dobnak Signal MLB Should Limit Club's Ability to DFA or Demote Stretch Relievers?

[dxpavelka]

Is this a roster construction issue? Sure.  Is this a financial issue?  HELL yes.  Everything about baseball finances is f#@!%$ up.  About the ONLY thing that isn't is the fact that contracts actually mean something.  Sign a Randy Dobnak to a three year $9 million contract and you PAY a Randy Dobnak $9 million for three years.  Until baseball gets their financial house in order (Salary Cap / Revenue Sharing) NO sympathy for ANYBODY

[Rufus]

Oh come on, whip me, beat me pay me $3 million.   He is laughing all the way to St Paul.    Look at what Musk is doing to federal employees.  Fiiring them for poor jog performance right after they just got good appraisal.  That's unfair. 

[Trov]

This is how the CBA decided to do it.  If the players wanted it different they could have fought for it.  I doubt anyone feels bad for Dobnak getting 4 million to pitch in AAA again.  He does not even have to get a new place to live, one benefit of having AAA in St. Paul.  

He knows how it will go.  They will continue to pick up his contract and taxi him between AAA and MLB as arms are needed.  If he wanted to be stable he could give up his 4 mil.  I doubt he will. For guys in his position that is not making 4 mil they normally get picked up all the time.  Pitchers get shifted around the league like passing cards around. 

Maybe the CBA will get changed, but until then it is the life of a fringe MLB pitcher.  They changed the rules to prevent IL manipulation that a pitcher has to be on it for 15 days, position players still only 10.  Back when it was 10 so many pitchers had IL stints to prevent being sent down, because you needed to wait so many days to shuttle between minors and majors after you sent them down, but if there was an "injury" a player would not need to stay down in minors for so long. 

For the players making league min, they may choose to opt out and try to find a team that will keep them at MLB level.  If Dobnak wanted to do that, he could.  He won't, because he would need to move, give up 4 mil, and most likely deal with the same issue at new team. I do not feel bad for a guy getting paid 4 mil to play at AAA.  If he was upset choose to walk. 

[chpettit19]

11 hours ago, Hosken Bombo Disco said:

The very first thing I said was that, to me, it’s not about Dobnak.

Will you show us data on how the other 29 teams decide on non-injury bullpen demotions to the minors? 

Pitchers have to remain in the minors for 15 days after being demoted. Players can only be optioned 5 times in a season before having to be placed on waivers. 

These rules weren't put in place because of how the Twins treat their players. They were put in place (in 2022) because of how "the other 29 teams decide on non-injury bullpen demotions to the minors." This isn't the Twins being jerks and doing something outside the norm. This is how nearly everyone does things. 

[old nurse]

When they announced what the bullpen was for the Saints  I commented that it looks like the bullpen will be on DFA candidates for the big league team. Dobnak surely knew that he would have a DFA or two in his future.  Any time the long man goes long, it will be vacation time in St Paul 

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

58 minutes ago, chpettit19 said:

This isn't the Twins being jerks and doing something outside the norm. This is how nearly everyone does things. 

And this isn’t data. Thanks for the reply though. 

The Twins operate like this: a relief pitcher on the bubble throws a nice outing like Dobnak, and gets sent down. A batter faces a platoon situation in the middle innings, they are pulled from the game. Someone gets the winning hit the night before? “Hit the pine today, Jack.” 

It would be interesting to see the data, if good teams like the Dodgers or Cleveland do things the same way the Twins do.

[chpettit19]

30 minutes ago, Hosken Bombo Disco said:

And this isn’t data. Thanks for the reply though. 

The Twins operate like this: a relief pitcher on the bubble throws a nice outing like Dobnak, and gets sent down. A batter faces a platoon situation in the middle innings, they are pulled from the game. Someone gets the winning hit the night before? “Hit the pine today, Jack.” 

It would be interesting to see the data, if good teams like the Dodgers or Cleveland do things the same way the Twins do.

It is data. It happens so frequently by so many teams that they had to make rules for it. 

Describing Dobnak as simply "a relief pitcher on the bubble" is missing a lot of the context of the role Randy was in. Almost all of the context, actually. He wasn't going to throw a pitch in any situation other than a starting pitcher blowing up and having an awful game (the situation that ended up happening) or a starting pitcher getting hurt and the Twins needing multiple innings out of an individual pitcher. Randy would then be on the hook for pitching multiple innings. If it was for a "blow up" start it wouldn't matter how well he pitched. Whether he gave up 0 runs or 20 runs, it wouldn't matter. His 1 and only job on this team was to eat innings and save the bullpen in an emergency and then go be a St Paul Saint afterwards. That was then the only role Darren McCaughan had. And it'll be the only role for whoever replaces Darren (although, I suppose they do have an off-day Friday so maybe they roll the dice that they don't need a long man today or tomorrow?).

Pinch hitting in the middle innings and sitting guys after getting game winning hits are completely and totally different things that have nothing to do with how teams cycle through relief pitchers. I'm not sure why you even bring those things up. 

I'm not going to go through the entire transaction logs of the Dodgers and Guardians, but a quick glance at just the end of the year for the Dodgers last year shows Ben Casparius having his contract selected on 8/18. Being optioned again on 8/21 (without even pitching). Being recalled on 8/31 and pitching 1 inning that day (0 runs allowed) and being optioned right back to the minors. He was then recalled on 9/20, threw 3 innings of 1 run ball on 9/22, was optioned on 9/24, recalled on 9/26, threw 4.1 innings of 1 earned run (2 total runs) ball on 9/27, and optioned again on 9/28. 3 regular season appearances to go with being optioned 4 times.

This is what teams do. It's why the league made rules for it.

[jjswol]

I agree 100% this is a problem. Another case of MLB and the MLBPA looking out for the stars and saying "who cares" to the others. Baseball needs both types of players.

[LambchoP]

I think what's most concerning is we've had to call up and use long relievers because of starters blow ups twice now within the first 4 games. Donna now Mcgaughan. What's next, do they call up Morris or Festa for a few days to pitch 5 innings after SWR or even Lopez gets knocked out of the game in the third inning?

[Mike Sixel]

29 minutes ago, jjswol said:

I agree 100% this is a problem. Another case of MLB and the MLBPA looking out for the stars and saying "who cares" to the others. Baseball needs both types of players.

Both types meaning what? Because dobnak and similar players aren't average, or slightly below average. This usage is for players that aren't good enough to be on rosters full time. But they still get MLB money when up. Should those players never get called up? What's your solution?

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

1 hour ago, chpettit19 said:

I'm not going to go through the entire transaction logs of the Dodgers and Guardians, but a quick glance at just the end of the year for the Dodgers last year shows Ben Casparius having his contract selected on 8/18. Being optioned again on 8/21 (without even pitching). Being recalled on 8/31 and pitching 1 inning that day (0 runs allowed) and being optioned right back to the minors. He was then recalled on 9/20, threw 3 innings of 1 run ball on 9/22, was optioned on 9/24, recalled on 9/26, threw 4.1 innings of 1 earned run (2 total runs) ball on 9/27, and optioned again on 9/28. 3 regular season appearances to go with being optioned 4 times.

Yes, this is data, good data. 

Now I wonder about factors like Time of Year, since the Dodgers weren’t really “looking for a bright spot” at that point but they hadn’t locked up the division, either.

thank you.

When you say, “all teams do this”— believe me, I get that. I guess I’m still thinking up to how to put players in the best position to succeed and build a winning team. It’s an academic exercise at this point. The Twins are who they are at this point. They thought Josh Donaldson and Lance Lynn were good bets, though those guys weren’t a great fit despite their projections. On it goes.

[Craig Arko]

I guess the next CBA could address this if it is felt needed. That’s assuming MLB still exists after the post-2026 lockout/strike.

[DJL44]

The only reason they aren't using Chris Paddack like this is he has the service time needed to reject the assignment to AAA.

[Mike Sixel]

And....the Atlanta team does this today....

[GNess]

The pitchers who are called up for this duty likely see it as an opportunity to pitch in MLB and possibly earn a more extended stay. The value of such cameo. opportunities should be considered as well as the actual pay received.

[sweetmusicviola16]

I highly doubt that there are very many fringe players or pitchers who are complaining about a short stint on an MLB roster. I'm certain they see it as an opportunity to make an impression they otherwise didn't have.

I'm curious who will get to pickup a few IP tonight for SWR's standard short outing.

[Fatbat]

Has anyone asked Dobnak if his dfa is an issue? Mo money, mo problems….

[Bradfoot]

Every time someone is sent down it presents an opportunity for someone else.  I would rather they have someone fresh than possibly finding themselves in a situation where you have to choose between overpitching someone to injury or going with a position player.  I have no concerns with how things currently are.

[Cris E]

10 hours ago, Hosken Bombo Disco said:

Yes, this is data, good data. 

Now I wonder about factors like Time of Year, since the Dodgers weren’t really “looking for a bright spot” at that point but they hadn’t locked up the division, either.

You know he didn't go up on a mountain to have God hand him game logs on stone tablets. You can do this yourself.

[djm24]

On 4/1/2025 at 11:34 AM, LambchoP said:

I think what's most concerning is we've had to call up and use long relievers because of starters blow ups twice now within the first 4 games. Donna now Mcgaughan. What's next, do they call up Morris or Festa for a few days to pitch 5 innings after SWR or even Lopez gets knocked out of the game in the third inning?

Who's Donna? No one in the Twins organization that I know of. I have a cousin named Donna but she's not on the Two s team. 😏

[LambchoP]

16 hours ago, djm24 said:

Who's Donna? No one in the Twins organization that I know of. I have a cousin named Donna but she's not on the Two s team. 😏

Dobnak....typing on a phone while pretending to work is not ideal ;)

[djm24]

3 hours ago, LambchoP said:

Dobnak....typing on a phone while pretending to work is not ideal ;)

I know what you mean. I don't have a computer and have to type on a phone also. In fact, looking at what I typed yesterday, I typed "Twos" team instead of "Twins" team. I should proof-read what I  type before posting it. So, I guess we're "even". 🥴

 

[stringer bell]

Under the current rules, the Twins did the prudent thing. Dobnak made the Opening Day roster precisely because he was a minor asset who they wouldn't lose in a DFA. The Twins get to keep Dobnak in their system for future use and Dobnak continues to be well-paid as a 4A pitcher. Nobody loses. 

Randy Dobnak pitched on a big league stage and had an audition for 30  major league teams. Good for him. He accrued a few additional days of service time, also good for him. Since his minor league "home" is just a short commute, there was little uprooting in his life. This particular scenario is about as good as it gets for both the player and team.

Other end of the roster transactions are not as benign. Players who get DFA'd three and four times and never make the major league roster is another story altogether IMHO. The move from one minor league team to another and get constantly uprooted and they don't make big league pay. 

Another scenario is guys who get called up to start a single game--three ex-Twins come to mind (Chi Chi Gonzalez, Tommy MIlone and Devin Smeltzer). These guys have been in the spot start business at some point in their careers, without the guaranteed contract that makes Dobnak pretty much untouchable. They start a game and are promptly DFA'd, maybe if they pitch well someone else will claim them. If not, they are unclaimed and go back to the minors. The better they pitch, the more likely someone claims them. The Twins have used a couple guys like that as well, but their names escape me right now.

The other factors in all of this is pay and benefits. I think players on the 40-man roster have a higher base than other minor leaguers (not sure) and I think perhaps changes could be made wherein someone on the 40-man is guaranteed a certain number of days on the 40-man roster when claimed or selected or maybe granting some number of service time days if claimed or selected. This might slow the DFA merry-go-round a bit.

Minimum big-league salary is a lot of money and a great reward for pursuing your dream. I think the business will always treat the fringe players less well than those who are or could be stars. Assigning higher minimum service time and major league pay for transactions makes sense to me to make the players a little less disposable.

One of the worst things about today's MLB is position players pitching. If rules changes could be made to eliminate this practice, I'd be all in favor of them. Of course, it might tie in with end-of-roster transactions, but eliminating position player pitching would be a step forward IMHO.