Anybody can play anywhere

[USAFChief]

The Twins operate under the premise "anybody can play anywhere." 

Nobody learns a position in the minors. 

There are some benefits to this, I guess. Flexibility. 

But it sure leads to sloppy baseball, particularly in the infield. 

I miss the days when players were expected to know how to play before they got to the big leagues.

 

[Linus]

9 hours ago, USAFChief said:

The Twins operate under the premise "anybody can play anywhere." 

Nobody learns a position in the minors. 

There are some benefits to this, I guess. Flexibility. 

But it sure leads to sloppy baseball, particularly in the infield. 

I miss the days when players were expected to know how to play before they got to the big leagues.

 

I agree more than wholeheartedly. Baseball is really hard which is why I don’t get worked up when someone swings and misses on a nasty slider on the outside corner. That’s why botching easy plays is so detrimental and the Twins do it far too often. I think part of it is rooted in the notion of I can play anywhere which I think is complete BS except for a few players. Here is the list of Twins players that can effectively do it:

Willi Castro. 
 

I hate sloppy baseball. 

[ashbury]

"Anybody."  "Anywhere."  I haven't seen Carlos Santana squatting behind the plate, nor Jose Miranda patrolling center field.  Buxton and Correa are playing exclusively at the skill positions they are being paid to play.  Vazquez started one game as emergency third baseman. Reputed butcher at second base, Edouard Julien, has played all his innings there this year.  Larnach, Wallner, and Margot cycle through the two corner OF spots, with occasional cameo CF appearances by the latter.  Kepler plays RF and is rumored to have balked at backing up CF.

Willi Castro, mentioned above, is the one true "anywhere" guy, but if I'm being fair he's not really so good defensively such that he would push a legitimate starter out, and is best used when plugged in due to injuries - 20 games played at 5 positions is testament to both versatility and a lack of elite skills.

I get the feeling some particular play yesterday may have triggered your observation.  I watched part of the game, but may have missed a botched play by Brooks Lee?  I've seen him make some really fine plays so far, but as with any rookie there are going to be growing pains.  Can't think of anyone on the roster I'm less worried about in the long run (like, two months from now).

Seems to me what we are seeing is a combination of talent but youthful inexperience (Lee), and some players with definite and uncorrectable defensive limitations (Julien, Martin).  Martin's arm is a liability whether he plays at 2B or CF and there's nothing to be done about it except live with it or else discard him, because the bat doesn't play at LF or 1B where his arm might be least harmful; Martin plays "anywhere" because he actually can play (well) "nowhere."

It would help to know who you have in mind.

[Road trip]

38 minutes ago, ashbury said:

.

I get the feeling some particular play yesterday may have triggered your observation.  I watched part of the game, but may have missed a botched play by Brooks Lee?  I've seen him make some really fine plays so far, but as with any rookie there are going to be growing pains.  Can't think of anyone on the roster I'm less worried about in the long run (like, two months from now).

Seems to me what we are seeing is a combination of talent but youthful inexperience (Lee), and some players with definite and uncorrectable defensive limitations (Julien, Martin).  Martin's arm is a liability whether he plays at 2B or CF and there's nothing to be done about it except live with it or else discard him, because the bat doesn't play at LF or 1B where his arm might be least harmful; Martin plays "anywhere" because he actually can play (well) "nowhere."

It would help to know who you have in mind.

Lee did botch the bunt play.  It wasn't a physical error, but rather a mistake of inexperience, anticipation, and judgment.  He backed off when he should have taken charge and called off Okert on the popped up bunt.  Make that play and it is possible the Brewers don't score.

As you noted Lee has all the physical tools to play anywhere in the infield, and he has made some outstanding plays.

Problem is, Lee was exclusively played at shortstop in the minors beyond 10 games and 3b and 2 and 2b.  A little more time in the minors at positions he was expected to play in the majors (because everyone knew Correa was the SS) would seem to be beneficial if you want to reduce the inexperience/judgment errors at the MLB level.  It's quite likely that Lee never previously experienced that scenario in game action at 3B before last night.  Little wonder he wasn't quite ready for it.

 

 

[USAFChief]

Watch Castro try to play MLB shortstop.

[USAFChief]

3 hours ago, ashbury said:

I get the feeling some particular play yesterday may have triggered your observation.  

You'd be incorrect.

 

[ashbury]

2 hours ago, USAFChief said:

Watch Castro try to play MLB shortstop.

Well, we're mainly in agreement about Castro then.  He played his first game for the Twins when he was almost 26, so we're talking about his development by the Tigers, and he played about 90% of his minor league innings at SS so the Tigers apparently tried to teach him, but it didn't work.

That's the thing. "Nobody learns a position in the minors" doesn't take into account that the talent and aptitude just might not be there, no matter how hard you try to teach.

2 hours ago, USAFChief said:

You'd be incorrect.

Fair enough, so then I'd still like to know what (and who) prompted your post.  I laid out in my reply that the current 26-man roster can't really be the cause of such a sweeping indictment, since most everyone except Castro, Martin, and (to the small degree he's been in the majors) Lee play pretty normal rotations. 

Lee is the only one who might qualify, since IMO Castro and Martin lack the apparent aptitude to become really good at any important defensive position.  The Twins FO gets regularly dinged for being slow to promote, so it's ironic if they move Lee upward quickly, only to be hammered from a different direction for not completing the development process.

Also you single out the Twins, but as mentioned above Detroit with Castro may fit this same mold, so is our team really out of step with standard practice across the majors these days?  Honest question there (as are most of my questions when I'm not kidding around, I hope).

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

Brooks Lee has played shortstop his entire baseball life, was drafted as a future shortstop, and has played shortstop his entire minor league career (all with the Twins). 

So let’s not overthink this— play Lee at short until Correa gets back!

[RpR]

1 hour ago, Hosken Bombo Disco said:

Brooks Lee has played shortstop his entire baseball life, was drafted as a future shortstop, and has played shortstop his entire minor league career (all with the Twins). 

So let’s not overthink this— play Lee at short until Correa gets back!

Not a bad idea.

[Schmoeman5]

When Castro plays anywhere other than 2nd hes out of position. When Martin plays anywhere he's out of position. Lee has been up for a few weeks and he's made numerous bad plays. He made a nice stop today and then threw it 20' short of 1st that Santana bailed him out on. The missed bunt. The throw into the Giants dugout. And in case you want to defend the bunt. On that play Santana was crashing in from 1st Lee was kind of caught out but that ball was in the air. Margot comes in as a defensive replacement for Wallner and Larnach.  That's not an upgrade. Maybe in years past but not in 2024. Castro too. He has good speed and a good arm but often takes bad routes. And his 1st step is often off. Especially on balls hit straight at him.  With Miranda Correa and Lewis out then the Twins have to put guys out of position.  They do it even when they've all been healthy. AJ Hinch told Castro that his future as a major leaguer was NOT as a SS. Just because he's versatile does not mean he's good. He's terrible in CF. You can get by with spot starts in LF or at 3rd. SS? No way. There were 2 plays in the last 2 days. Routine grounders that got beat out for hits because Castro stayed back. Correa comes get those balls for outs. Why? Because he's a SS. Castros awareness has come into play several times this year. So yeah. The majority of the players are in their positions.  But when they're out and these guys are put into not normal spots it shows up. Defensive metrics don't show how bad they are because errors aren't given for fear of hurting someone's feelings. 100% @USAFChief There have been numerous posts about putting Lewis in LF I've even seen Juliens name mentioned as a potential OF. Whenever theres a player who comes on and does well but really doesn't have a position, the normal call is to just put him here. How hard can it be? 

[Riverbrian]

Lewis and Miranda are hurt... so.... the important question... in their absence... who plays 3b?

You can't answer that with Brooks Lee.... because Brooks Lee played SS in the minors. 

How ridged do you want this discussion to be? 

Because come to think of it.

Should Royce Lewis be at 3B? He played 2642 innings at SS compared to 101 innings at 3B in the minor leagues. 

Back to who plays 3B with Lewis and Miranda out? 

In St. Paul. Both Anthony Prato and Diego A. Castillo lead the team with 257 innings at 3B in 2024. So I guess they are next in line for 3B work in the majors. However... Prato is one of those anybody can play anywhere guys. He has logged more miles in the OF so not Prato. Castillo must be the guy. Nope - 3,541 innings at SS. 562 innings at 3B. He actually has more innings at 2B and OF so 3B ranks 4th on his position list so Castillo is out of consideration. 

We still don't have a 3B. 

Lets check Wichita. 

Before we check the Wind Surge... Is it possible that necessity is the mother of invention and is it possible that quite a few players can play quite a few positions. 

 

[Craig Arko]

Pretty sure I can’t play any position. Prone, perhaps.

[Riverbrian]

41 minutes ago, Craig Arko said:

Pretty sure I can’t play any position. Prone, perhaps.

Back when I was playing baseball in the 1920's. 

I was equally as good at OF and IF and equally not major league level at OF and IF. 

So if you want my bat in the lineup. You could put me anywhere. 

[Craig Arko]

1 hour ago, Riverbrian said:

Back when I was playing baseball in the 1920's. 

I was equally as good at OF and IF and equally not major league level at OF and IF. 

So if you want my bat in the lineup. You could put me anywhere. 
 

https://youtu.be/Xq3hEMUeBGQ?si=GOLMSIle4_H0vQPj

 

[Linus]

People are focusing on SS too much. SS is really hard which is why there are so many failed SS. And we expect Castro to step in there flawlessly?  If he could do that he would be a starter on another team. He is a utility guy and does a decent job at a bunch of positions. That is really valuable in that very few people can do it. 

[Richie the Rally Goat]

On 7/21/2024 at 11:09 AM, ashbury said:

"Anybody."  "Anywhere."  I haven't seen Carlos Santana squatting behind the plate, nor Jose Miranda patrolling center field.  Buxton and Correa are playing exclusively at the skill positions they are being paid to play.  Vazquez started one game as emergency third baseman. Reputed butcher at second base, Edouard Julien, has played all his innings there this year.  Larnach, Wallner, and Margot cycle through the two corner OF spots, with occasional cameo CF appearances by the latter.  Kepler plays RF and is rumored to have balked at backing up CF.

Willi Castro, mentioned above, is the one true "anywhere" guy, but if I'm being fair he's not really so good defensively such that he would push a legitimate starter out, and is best used when plugged in due to injuries - 20 games played at 5 positions is testament to both versatility and a lack of elite skills.

I get the feeling some particular play yesterday may have triggered your observation.  I watched part of the game, but may have missed a botched play by Brooks Lee?  I've seen him make some really fine plays so far, but as with any rookie there are going to be growing pains.  Can't think of anyone on the roster I'm less worried about in the long run (like, two months from now).

Seems to me what we are seeing is a combination of talent but youthful inexperience (Lee), and some players with definite and uncorrectable defensive limitations (Julien, Martin).  Martin's arm is a liability whether he plays at 2B or CF and there's nothing to be done about it except live with it or else discard him, because the bat doesn't play at LF or 1B where his arm might be least harmful; Martin plays "anywhere" because he actually can play (well) "nowhere."

It would help to know who you have in mind.

I have, but not since 2014 ;)

but seriously, agreed, this thread needs a bit more nuance.

to the OP, I’d like to see Lee at SS instead of Castro. Brooks is supposed to be a decent fielder.

[Squirrel]

1 hour ago, Richie the Rally Goat said:

I have, but not since 2014 ;)

but seriously, agreed, this thread needs a bit more nuance.

to the OP, I’d like to see Lee at SS instead of Castro. Brooks is supposed to be a decent fielder.

I would like to see him there, too. But I also don’t feel it’s managerial misconduct, either. While maybe not stated, I get the feeling that that is more the gist of the OP. I could be wrong, though 

[mnfireman]

The misplay on the bunt Saturday night is 100% because Lee is playing out of position and learning as he goes. Castro has more 3B experience and, I would like to think, would have called Okert off the play.

While not ideal, Julien at 2B, Lee at SS and Castro at 3B is a better defensive line-up until Correa and Miranda are back, hopefully followed by Lewis shortly thereafter. That is where those players have the most reps and are most comfortable.

[SwainZag]

Correa, Miranda and Royce all on the IL at once is obviously less than ideal.  It creates some issues. 

[RpR]

On 7/20/2024 at 10:12 PM, USAFChief said:

The Twins operate under the premise "anybody can play anywhere." 

Nobody learns a position in the minors. 

There are some benefits to this, I guess. Flexibility. 

But it sure leads to sloppy baseball, particularly in the infield. 

I miss the days when players were expected to know how to play before they got to the big leagues.

 

I think this thought is to the point and correct.