Minnesota Veterans Making Front Office Look Great

[Mike Sixel]

8 minutes ago, Jocko87 said:

Plenty of action here, regardless.

https://www.mlb.com/twins/roster/transactions

Sure, because of injuries and Julien unlikely sucking. No one predicted that. And Margot and Farmer are still on the team. As was Gallo all last year. Julien and Wallner only came up last year due to injury, and they carried the offense last year. They just don't promote his without injuries. This idea that young players force old guys off the roster just isn't what happens. 

[Fatbat]

13 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

You can't play young players if the roster is full..... This team does not promote his without injuries. It just doesn't. They can't play a guy off the roster. I mean, Farmer and Margot are still on it....

Farmer and Margot have to improve their production immediately or they have to go.  We got games to win. 

[Doctor Gast]

5 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

Santana has been quite good this year. First base production is down across the league, and he's been good compared to most other first baseman. Otherwise I agree. 

Whether 1B production across the league is down or not doesn't concern me. I still hold Santana to the standard & his production doesn't come close to Miranda's or Kiriloff's before he got hurt. The fact that 1B production is down across the league only aids us because 1Bmen are in demand so contenders & wannabes are looking for them. I'd be a good opportunity to trade Santana & come out ahead.

[KirbyDome89]

Jesus this is some low tier trolling....

[Jocko87]

24 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

Sure, because of injuries and Julien unlikely sucking. No one predicted that. And Margot and Farmer are still on the team. As was Gallo all last year. Julien and Wallner only came up last year due to injury, and they carried the offense last year. They just don't promote his without injuries. This idea that young players force old guys off the roster just isn't what happens. 

Everyone smart predicted that, they just didn't know which name to insert.  The roster isn't the question, the playing time is.  Nobody playing well is losing out to any of the vets. 

They do force the kids to play well to get on the field, which seems pretty wise to me.

[Shaitan]

[Mike Sixel]

9 minutes ago, Jocko87 said:

Everyone smart predicted that, they just didn't know which name to insert.  The roster isn't the question, the playing time is.  Nobody playing well is losing out to any of the vets. 

They do force the kids to play well to get on the field, which seems pretty wise to me.

People predicted Julien would suck? Because that's what I said....The do NOT force the kids to play well, they promote kids when veterans get hurt. How the "kids" are playing isn't relevant to their decision making when it comes to replacing veterans.

[Linus]

42 minutes ago, Doctor Gast said:

Whether 1B production across the league is down or not doesn't concern me. I still hold Santana to the standard & his production doesn't come close to Miranda's or Kiriloff's before he got hurt. The fact that 1B production is down across the league only aids us because 1Bmen are in demand so contenders & wannabes are looking for them. I'd be a good opportunity to trade Santana & come out ahead.

Were we watching the same Alex Kirilloff?  There is a reason they tried to send him to AAA. 

[Doctor Gast]

35 minutes ago, Linus said:

Were we watching the same Alex Kirilloff?  There is a reason they tried to send him to AAA. 

If you look at the overall stats & not look at the conditions. You miss the real picture. #1 Kiriloff started the season leading the team in hitting #2 they were afraid of his health yet they put him in a more demanding position. #3 he got hurt in correlation to when his slump started. #4 The problem wasn't that he was bad, it was due to him being hurt #5 So he wasn't sent to AAA but was put on the IL. #6 Solution put him at 1B/ DH & keep him there & keep him healthy.

[Linus]

1 minute ago, Doctor Gast said:

If you look at the overall stats & not look at the conditions. You miss the real picture. #1 Kiriloff started the season leading the team in hitting #2 they were afraid of his health yet they put him in a more demanding position. #3 he got hurt in correlation to when his slump started. #4 The problem wasn't that he was bad, it was due to him being hurt #5 So he wasn't sent to AAA but was put on the IL.

Yea not buying it. He hasn’t been good but we don’t have to agree. 

[RpR]

1 hour ago, Doctor Gast said:

Whether 1B production across the league is down or not doesn't concern me. I still hold Santana to the standard & his production doesn't come close to Miranda's or Kiriloff's before he got hurt. The fact that 1B production is down across the league only aids us because 1Bmen are in demand so contenders & wannabes are looking for them. I'd be a good opportunity to trade Santana & come out ahead.

Miranda'a 1st base defense stinks.

[Doctor Gast]

2 minutes ago, RpR said:

Miranda'a 1st base defense stinks.

Miranda defense doesn't stink. It may not be great but at 1B it doesn't have to be, it's not catching. Miranda's defense at 3B is now solid & he has the potential to be better at 1B if given the chance.

[Doctor Gast]

14 minutes ago, Linus said:

Yea not buying it. He hasn’t been good but we don’t have to agree. 

I'm curious, what true statement aren't you buying?

If you look at the overall stats & not look at the conditions. You miss the real picture. #1 Kiriloff started the season leading the team in hitting #2 they were afraid of his health yet they put him in a more demanding position. #3 he got hurt in correlation to when his slump started. #4 The problem wasn't that he was bad, it was due to him being hurt #5 So he wasn't sent to AAA but was put on the IL.

[bean5302]

4 hours ago, RpR said:

Miranda top the only time he played extensively a 1st Base; Santana bottom this year.

I think everybody is aware Santana is superior to Miranda at 1B. Most people, including myself, don't care. 
1 WAR = 10 runs saved. 
.030 of OPS = 1 WAR-ish

Miranda +4 WAR over Santana offensively. Maybe -1 WAR under Santana defensively. It's not a wash. Assuming Miranda played the same at the plate, he's a much more valuable player than Santana.

[bean5302]

3 hours ago, LA VIkes Fan said:

I think this is a little harsh regarding Santana. The Twins would have been justly criticized for going into this season with a Miranda/Kirilloff set as the only 1B options. Neither was good in 2023 and both were coming off of injuries. I think Santana has been much better than expected and his bat has really helped lengthen the lineup in those critical 5-7 spots. Also, his presence has allowed the Twins to bring Mirnada along at a pace that has really worked. I could actually see him back next year if he doesn't fall off of the proverbial age cliff in the second half of the season. 

You're dead on regarding Margot. He simply isn't valuable enough as a short side platoon hitter who can't hit righties at all and whose defense is cromulent at best (tip of the cap to Cody) in the corners and brutal in CF. What saves that deal is that Doncon has been better than expected. I would love to see them phase Margot out in the second half for Martin but I think that will be seen as too risky when we're in contention. Still, we need to know if that trade off will be workable next season since Margot is unlikely to be back.  

I wouldn't have criticized them because that's exactly what I wanted them to do. There are always some waiver wire pick up guys who were as good as Santana was on average over his previous few seasons. It turns out, the Twins didn't need Santana.

[RpR]

3 hours ago, Doctor Gast said:

Miranda defense doesn't stink. It may not be great but at 1B it doesn't have to be, it's not catching. Miranda's defense at 3B is now solid & he has the potential to be better at 1B if given the chance.

Miranda is not good at 1st or 3rd, he can relax because Lewis is worst at 3rd than he is and Lewis has problems staying on the field.

[RpR]

12 minutes ago, bean5302 said:

I think everybody is aware Santana is superior to Miranda at 1B. Most people, including myself, don't care. 
1 WAR = 10 runs saved. 
.030 of OPS = 1 WAR-ish

Miranda +4 WAR over Santana offensively. Maybe -1 WAR under Santana defensively. It's not a wash. Assuming Miranda played the same at the plate, he's a much more valuable player than Santana.

Yep, defense does not count proved the other day when Lee literally threw the game away.😂

[Jocko87]

32 minutes ago, bean5302 said:

I think everybody is aware Santana is superior to Miranda at 1B. Most people, including myself, don't care. 
1 WAR = 10 runs saved. 
.030 of OPS = 1 WAR-ish

Miranda +4 WAR over Santana offensively. Maybe -1 WAR under Santana defensively. It's not a wash. Assuming Miranda played the same at the plate, he's a much more valuable player than Santana.

But Santana isn't keeping Miranda from playing.  It's the wrong comparison.  None of these are binary comparisons.  

[chpettit19]

31 minutes ago, RpR said:

Yep, defense does not count proved the other day when Lee literally threw the game away.😂

Nobody has ever said defense doesn't count. What we all push back on is your idea that defense outweighs offense. If you combine both offense and defense (since they both count) Jose Miranda has been the much better overall player this year.

[Road trip]

39 minutes ago, bean5302 said:

I think everybody is aware Santana is superior to Miranda at 1B. Most people, including myself, don't care. 
1 WAR = 10 runs saved. 
.030 of OPS = 1 WAR-ish

Miranda +4 WAR over Santana offensively. Maybe -1 WAR under Santana defensively. It's not a wash. Assuming Miranda played the same at the plate, he's a much more valuable player than Santana.

Put it another way.... even if they were equivalently valuable thus far this year (and they aren't, its 2.5 BWAR to 1.4), Miranda is 26 and has a future with the Twins.  He projects to be in the lineup somewhere for the next several years, barring a trade or injuries.  He still has upside.  He needs a position, as we already have a plethora of 3b guys who are superior defenders. 

Santana is a 1 year rental who is 38 years old.  He's not the future at 1b, even if he is the present starter.

[Road trip]

40 minutes ago, RpR said:

Yep, defense does not count proved the other day when Lee literally threw the game away.😂

Oh, you mean the game where Santana dropped a knee high throw at 1b that extended the inning and allowed the Giants to score?

Yeah, it isn't just the youngsters that make errors.🙄

[chpettit19]

12 minutes ago, Road trip said:

Oh, you mean the game where Santana dropped a knee high throw at 1b that extended the inning and allowed the Giants to score?

Yeah, it isn't just the youngsters that make errors.🙄

And Margot looked like me trying to dive after a ball he had no business laying out for before the Lee throw.

[Mike Sixel]

It's almost like many people don't realize most of life is dials, not switches....

[akmanak]

You really seem to be cherry picking in yet another puff piece at how amazing the FO is.

[Fatbat]

2 hours ago, RpR said:

Yep, defense does not count proved the other day when Lee literally threw the game away.😂

That play derailed when Margot dove at the ball with ZERO chance to catch it. Yas should have been held to a single or thrown out at 2nd trying to stretch it to a double 

 

[Patzky]

6 hours ago, Mike Sixel said:

Miranda could have been that good, and they'd have had money. That money could be useful at the break....

..nobody except Carlos Correa thought Miranda would be as sexy as he has been in 2024..

[Western SD Fan]

I would have to agree that given the payroll constraints that the FO hit more than they missed. Given all the injuries, Santana has turned the corner in being a decent signing. Farmer and Margot could have been better spent. My fear is with the injury with Correa. I believe we are being set up by the FO (actually ownership) on why we will not make any consequential improvements at the trade deadline.

[RpR]

1 hour ago, chpettit19 said:

Nobody has ever said defense doesn't count. What we all push back on is your idea that defense outweighs offense. If you combine both offense and defense (since they both count) Jose Miranda has been the much better overall player this year.

That makes no sense as Miranda has played a whole two games at 1st base.

1st Base, Satana .994; 3rd Base, Miranda .958; as I said the only thing in Miranda's favor is Lewis has major problems, health and fielding wise.

[RpR]

1 hour ago, Road trip said:

Oh, you mean the game where Santana dropped a knee high throw at 1b that extended the inning and allowed the Giants to score?

Yeah, it isn't just the youngsters that make errors.🙄

No where Lee threw the ball to a empty space and the other team's winning run scored.

You try so hard.

[chpettit19]

5 minutes ago, RpR said:

That makes no sense as Miranda has played a whole two games at 1st base.

1st Base, Satana .994; 3rd Base, Miranda .958; as I said the only thing in Miranda's favor is Lewis has major problems, health and fielding wise.

I didn't say he'd been a better first baseman, I said he'd been a better overall player.