Ty France first baseman of the Mariners could solve Twin’s 1b problems?

[Old fox]

Ty France, (if available via trade) could solve 4 Twins problems 1. Right Handed power hitter and a younger player, 2. stability at first base. 3. 2-3 years team control. 4. fits Twin’s budget.  Twins trade Polanco for France and a young prospect pitcher or Twins move Larnach, Miranda & Sands for France.

[Cory Engelhardt]

Depending on how Miranda looks with a healthy shoulder, I’d be open to this idea. And I suppose, even if Miranda is back to his 2022 form (again, we will see) having someone else who is solid and can crush lefties isn’t a bad thing

[1985Fan]

I think Miranda and Niko Goodrum are going to compete in spring training for last spot on the roster and right handed bench bat. This FO isn’t keen to trade assets when their value is at its lowest like Miranda’s value is now. 

[tony&rodney]

Why is Jorge Polanco so underrated? I have asked this before and put it out there again.

Ty France is a decent player, but he is not the power hitter that Polanco is and strikes out more often. He is a hack at first base base, a plod on the bases, has two more years of control and costs $7.2 million this year. The only thing that France does better than Polanco is getting hit by pitches.

Memory can be a faulty tool, which is why we can look up a player's performance. I like Ty France as player but would suffer to trade Cole Sands for him. Many people on Twins Daily have apparently forgotten Polanco. He has missed time to injuries but is scheduled to enter Spring Training at 100% for the first time in several year. Do we have any other infielders who have missed time with injuries in the last two years? Should we trade them? The $10.5 salary is pocket change in today's MLB. Unless Polanco is a part of a package that returns Kirby, Gilbert, or Luzardo or returns a top 10-25 global prospect, people and Falvey should start to get excited for a full productive year from Jorge.

[Doctor Wu]

15 hours ago, 1985Fan said:

I think Miranda and Niko Goodrum are going to compete in spring training for last spot on the roster and right handed bench bat. This FO isn’t keen to trade assets when their value is at its lowest like Miranda’s value is now. 

Yeah, I think they hold on to Miranda and see how he performs in a healthy state this season. And as you noted, he doesn't have a whole lot of trade value right now. As for Ty France, I just don't think he would be worth trading for, prospects or even vets. As Tony & Rodney posted, Polanco has more value, even with a shorter contract. 

[Doctor Gast]

I don't see a problem at 1B. Julien, Kiriloff, Miranda & Farmer are very good & cheaper options. A combination of platoon duty forms a pretty formidable 1B crew,

[chpettit19]

If you think he's going to be his 2020-2022 self again (decent enough chance since he's only 29) he'd be a great fit on this team. I don't know if he's available or what he'd cost. But this team could definitely use a righty bat with a 125+ OPS+. Not sure where this idea that he strikes out a lot comes from. K% of 17.6% for his career. Polanco is at 18.2%. He's not the Twins typical power guy, and that's probably the biggest reason he wouldn't be a target for them. But a 125+ OPS+/WRC+ bat would be more than welcome. Not sure why we wouldn't want that.

[nicksaviking]

I don't care for the way France is trending, but why is Seattle trading offense? That's what they are desperate for. Are we presuming Mitch Garver was signed to take his job? Because Garver played 1 inning at 1B last year, I think it's more likely that Garver is the Mariners DH this year.

[Stew]

If we get a 1st baseman via trade. We should go big or go home. There was an article I think on this site with the idea of Alonso coming to the twins. Don't think we have or would want to give up what's needed to make that trade. Besides the article stated that we would make the trade good enough for the Mets to pay his whole salary. That won't happen. But there are other teams that have what we need. I like the idea of platooning what players we have. Besides Salano is still a possibility. If he would take a little less money. We first need to solve the pitching issue. And it would be better served if we use our assets for a trade for that.

[harmony55]

17 hours ago, tony&rodney said:

Why is Jorge Polanco so underrated? I have asked this before and put it out there again.

Ty France is a decent player, but he is not the power hitter that Polanco is and strikes out more often. He is a hack at first base base, a plod on the bases, has two more years of control and costs $7.2 million this year. The only thing that France does better than Polanco is getting hit by pitches.

Memory can be a faulty tool, which is why we can look up a player's performance. I like Ty France as player but would suffer to trade Cole Sands for him. Many people on Twins Daily have apparently forgotten Polanco. He has missed time to injuries but is scheduled to enter Spring Training at 100% for the first time in several year. Do we have any other infielders who have missed time with injuries in the last two years? Should we trade them? The $10.5 salary is pocket change in today's MLB. Unless Polanco is a part of a package that returns Kirby, Gilbert, or Luzardo or returns a top 10-25 global prospect, people and Falvey should start to get excited for a full productive year from Jorge.

Steamer projects Ty France, who has a career wRC+ of 117, with a 2024 wRC+ of 118. Steamer projects Jorge Polanco, who has a career wRC+ of 111, with a 2024 wRC+ of 110.

France has a career strikeout rate of 17.6 percent after posting a strikeout rate of 17.6 percent this year. Polanco has a career strikeout rate of 18.2 percent after posting strikeout rate of 25.7 percent this year.

France's defensive metrics at first base tanked this year after two solid seasons and have historically been far better than Polanco's dismal defensive metrics.

Steamer projects France with a 2024 WAR of 2.3 in 149 games and Polanco with a 2024 WAR of 2.5 in 141 games.

If a $10.5 million salary is pocket change then a $7.2 million salary can be found between the sofa cushions. Polanco is guaranteed $11.25 million, counting the $750,000 buyout of the $12 million club option for 2025. The choice would be up to two years of France working off a projected 2024 salary of $7.2 million versus one year of Polanco at $11.25 million or two years at $22.5 million.

The problem with the proposed trade is that Seattle has little need for Polanco with Luis Urias, Josh Rojas, Jose Caballero, Dylan Moore and Ryan Bliss available at second base and/or third base.

Seattle podcasters have floated a proposal of two years of France for one year of Max Kepler at $10 million, saving the Twins nearly $3 million while adding a year of team control.

 

[TopGunn#22]

The collection of possible 2B & 3B players that Seattle has are tremendously underwhelming.  That's why Polanco to Seattle is such a persistent rumor.  Ryan Bliss is not going to be the A.L. Rookie of the Year.  He probably won't even make the team out of spring training despite the lack of decent players at 2B & 3B to compete with.

France is a decent bat, but as others have pointed out, I have a hard time believing they would trade a hitter when they need offense so badly.  If I'm the Twins, the Mariner I would be most focused on would be Luis Castillo.  And I would rather see what a presumably healthy Miranda can do as opposed to acquiring France.

This is always a dangerous time of year for assumptions.  Because every year we hear how "healthy" everyone is prior to reporting to Fort Myers.  Polanco has never felt better, Buxton is pain free, Kirilloff looks great!  Miranda has a new body!  Canterino is finally 100%.  Correa was seen dancing with his wife!!  And on and on.  Then when spring training begins, all those aches and pains have a tendency to creep back into the picture.

I'm just as anxious as everyone else to see what the Twins will do.  Because they're going to make some moves for sure.  But nothing of note is going to get done until they fill their #2 spot in the rotation.  At seasons end, I was pretty sure Polanco and Kepler were BOTH getting traded.  I still think Polanco will but I'm not so sure about Kepler.  We could very well keep them both at the salaries each will be at in 2024.  

Polanco still has gas in the tank, and I thinks a number of teams of interested in him.  Seattle just might be at the top of the list.  

 

[Riverbrian]

I can't see the Mariners who are in need of more decent hitting... trading a decent hitter to get a decent hitter.  

Unless... they just don't like France and if that's the case... do we want him? 

I've never been to France... I've heard that Saint Tropez and Paris are nice places to visit.  

 

[harmony55]

6 minutes ago, Riverbrian said:

I can't see the Mariners who are in need of more decent hitting... trading a decent hitter to get a decent hitter.  

Unless... they just don't like France and if that's the case... do we want him? 

I've never been to France... I've heard that Saint Tropez and Paris are nice places to visit.  

 

Seattle hopes to improve on this year's team wRC+ of 107, which ranked sixth in the league, two slots behind the 109 wRC+ posted by the Twins. The Mariners have shed the 2023 wRC+ of Jarred Kelenic (108), Teoscar Hernandez (105) and Eugenio Suarez (102), plus part-timers Tom Murphy (140) and Mike Ford (123). The M's have added Mitch Garver, who posted a 2023 wRC+ of 138.

Like most teams, the Mariners have postseason needs,

[Mike Sixel]

Lewis, CC, Jeffers all hit right handed. What is the obsession with adding more RH hitting? The vast majority of pitchers are RH......

[nicksaviking]

28 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

Lewis, CC, Jeffers all hit right handed. What is the obsession with adding more RH hitting? The vast majority of pitchers are RH......

Yeah, they shouldn't NEED more right handed bats, this perception is all based on the team's penchant for pinch hitting for the young players last year. If they'll give the young guys the opportunity to hit against same-sided pitching, they could easily search for the best bats, not the best right handed bats.

[tony&rodney]

1 hour ago, Riverbrian said:

I've never been to France... I've heard that Saint Tropez and Paris are nice places to visit.  

They are both wonderful. The French are charming and friendly. Having rented a car and driven all over France on numerous occasions, I suggest you plan your next trip to ..... France. Oh, carry a tiny translation book (or phone) to manage your French and stay at Bed & Breakfast places for inexpensive travel.

[Riverbrian]

42 minutes ago, nicksaviking said:

Yeah, they shouldn't NEED more right handed bats, this perception is all based on the team's penchant for pinch hitting for the young players last year. If they'll give the young guys the opportunity to hit against same-sided pitching, they could easily search for the best bats, not the best right handed bats.

Agreed... But they don't so the perception is reality. 

[Mike Sixel]

1 hour ago, Riverbrian said:

Agreed... But they don't so the perception is reality. 

then they need PHers.....unless you want to bench Wallner or Julien permanently, until needed.

[1985Fan]

6 hours ago, TopGunn#22 said:

The collection of possible 2B & 3B players that Seattle has are tremendously underwhelming.  That's why Polanco to Seattle is such a persistent rumor.  Ryan Bliss is not going to be the A.L. Rookie of the Year.  He probably won't even make the team out of spring training despite the lack of decent players at 2B & 3B to compete with.

France is a decent bat, but as others have pointed out, I have a hard time believing they would trade a hitter when they need offense so badly.  If I'm the Twins, the Mariner I would be most focused on would be Luis Castillo.  And I would rather see what a presumably healthy Miranda can do as opposed to acquiring France.

This is always a dangerous time of year for assumptions.  Because every year we hear how "healthy" everyone is prior to reporting to Fort Myers.  Polanco has never felt better, Buxton is pain free, Kirilloff looks great!  Miranda has a new body!  Canterino is finally 100%.  Correa was seen dancing with his wife!!  And on and on.  Then when spring training begins, all those aches and pains have a tendency to creep back into the picture.

I'm just as anxious as everyone else to see what the Twins will do.  Because they're going to make some moves for sure.  But nothing of note is going to get done until they fill their #2 spot in the rotation.  At seasons end, I was pretty sure Polanco and Kepler were BOTH getting traded.  I still think Polanco will but I'm not so sure about Kepler.  We could very well keep them both at the salaries each will be at in 2024.  

Polanco still has gas in the tank, and I thinks a number of teams of interested in him.  Seattle just might be at the top of the list.  

 

I like the part about going after Castillo. I’ve read that Seattle is also having to cut payroll. They purchased the Root Sports NW company that was broadcasting their games to save them from bankruptcy. RSNW also broadcasts Trailblazers and local college sports. Seattle owned a majority stake but had to buy 100% to keep their games on the air. After purchasing 100% stake in RSNW, they announced layoffs and cost cutting would follow. I think I read that also applies to Mariners payroll.
Castillo is probably their highest paid starter and they have young controllable arms that can fill the void if they offload Castillo. if we offer cheap young offense, it might make a match. 

[DJL44]

4 hours ago, Mike Sixel said:

Lewis, CC, Jeffers all hit right handed. What is the obsession with adding more RH hitting? The vast majority of pitchers are RH......

Difficult to win against LHP with only 3 batters in the lineup who can hit. Kirilloff, Castro, Kepler, Julien, Wallner, Larnach and Gordon are all mostly useless against LHP. Farmer can only replace one of them. Buxton is always hurt. Polanco is likely to be traded. A RH bench bat was a need last offseason and at the trade deadline. It's still a good idea.

[DJL44]

4 hours ago, nicksaviking said:

If they'll give the young guys the opportunity to hit against same-sided pitching

The young guys (Wallner, Kirilloff, Larnach, Julien) were each terrible against LHP. A few of them might improve from terrible to merely bad but I wouldn't bet my season that they all turn into productive hitters vs LHP.

[Mike Sixel]

26 minutes ago, DJL44 said:

Difficult to win against LHP with only 3 batters in the lineup who can hit. Kirilloff, Castro, Kepler, Julien, Wallner, Larnach and Gordon are all mostly useless against LHP. Farmer can only replace one of them. Buxton is always hurt. Polanco is likely to be traded. A RH bench bat was a need last offseason and at the trade deadline. It's still a good idea.

Bench bat? Sure. Starter, no. Everyone is talking about trading for a starter. 

[JD-TWINS]

On 12/28/2023 at 4:47 PM, tony&rodney said:

Why is Jorge Polanco so underrated? I have asked this before and put it out there again.

Ty France is a decent player, but he is not the power hitter that Polanco is and strikes out more often. He is a hack at first base base, a plod on the bases, has two more years of control and costs $7.2 million this year. The only thing that France does better than Polanco is getting hit by pitches.

Memory can be a faulty tool, which is why we can look up a player's performance. I like Ty France as player but would suffer to trade Cole Sands for him. Many people on Twins Daily have apparently forgotten Polanco. He has missed time to injuries but is scheduled to enter Spring Training at 100% for the first time in several year. Do we have any other infielders who have missed time with injuries in the last two years? Should we trade them? The $10.5 salary is pocket change in today's MLB. Unless Polanco is a part of a package that returns Kirby, Gilbert, or Luzardo or returns a top 10-25 global prospect, people and Falvey should start to get excited for a full productive year from Jorge.

Agreed, don’t see the value of adding France & frankly, doubt Seattle is trading him at an affordable $7.2M. Twins don’t save much in Salary either for what you & many would consider a lesser player than Polanco.

That said Polanco is declining over a fairly long stretch……..might he bounce back, maybe?

’22 - .235 BA & 108 games

’23 - .256 BA & 86 games

Career .270 BA ………..batting efficiency is dropping and his availability/reliability has certainly dropped significantly. He’s not at Buxton’s level of IL time but we can move him before it gets worse (can’t move Buxton) & we can re-coup $$ to spend on pitching. I think he’s probably moved to allow Julien a starting spot for 120 games……….Buxton will again clog the DH spot for 50% of the games.

[harmony55]

The Twins would save an estimated $2.8 million in 2024 with a trade of Max Kepler to Seattle for first baseman Ty France.

The deal would be a classic trading high on one year of Kepler coming off a good season and buying low on two years of France coming off a disappointing season.

Steamer projects Kepler with a 2024 WAR of 2.3 in 133 games while projecting France with a 2024 WAR of 2.2 in 149 games.

Kepler, who has a career wRC+ of 103, is projected with a 2024 wRC+ of 116 while France, who has a career wRC+ of 117, is projected with a 2024 wRC+ of 118.

Kepler's historically strong defensive metrics dipped a tad in 2023 while France's historically strong defensive metrics absolutely tanked in 2023. The Fielding Bible had Kepler as a Top 5 defensive right fielder in 2021 and 2022 while ranking France as a Top 5 defensive first baseman in 2021 and a Top 10 defensive first baseman in 2022:

https://archive.fieldingbible.com/complete-voteTally2021.asp

https://archive.fieldingbible.com/complete-voteTally.asp

Kepler, who is 17 months older than France, is owed $10 million in the final year of his contract. France remains under team control for two seasons working off his projected 2024 salary of $7.2 million.

There's probably not a match but that's how they compare.😉

[tony&rodney]

2 hours ago, harmony55 said:

The Twins would save an estimated $2.8 million in 2024 with a trade of Max Kepler to Seattle for first baseman Ty France.

The deal would be a classic trading high on one year of Kepler coming off a good season and buying low on two years of France coming off a disappointing season.

Steamer projects Kepler with a 2024 WAR of 2.3 in 133 games while projecting France with a 2024 WAR of 2.2 in 149 games.

Kepler, who has a career wRC+ of 103, is projected with a 2024 wRC+ of 116 while France, who has a career wRC+ of 117, is projected with a 2024 wRC+ of 118.

Kepler's historically strong defensive metrics dipped a tad in 2023 while France's historically strong defensive metrics absolutely tanked in 2023. The Fielding Bible had Kepler as a Top 5 defensive right fielder in 2021 and 2022 while ranking France as a Top 5 defensive first baseman in 2021 and a Top 10 defensive first baseman in 2022:

https://archive.fieldingbible.com/complete-voteTally2021.asp

https://archive.fieldingbible.com/complete-voteTally.asp

Kepler, who is 17 months older than France, is owed $10 million in the final year of his contract. France remains under team control for two seasons working off his projected 2024 salary of $7.2 million.

There's probably not a match but that's how they compare.😉

Falvey is not playing fantasy baseball. There isn't a GM in MLB that would trade Max Kepler for Ty France, save for the suddenly flabbergasted Jerry Dipoto of Seattle. Ty France is a good ballplayer but he does not compare to Kepler. For one, you might consider that they play different positions. 

I'm not sure why you look down on Kepler and Polanco or if you genuinely believe that the Twins need the money badly and should just dump both players.

I will be the first to openly congratulate you if Falvey just decides that both Polanco and Kepler have limited value. Until the final decisions are made, we can wait.

[Riverbrian]

On 12/29/2023 at 3:04 PM, Mike Sixel said:

then they need PHers.....unless you want to bench Wallner or Julien permanently, until needed.

I have no problem with Wallner or Julien hitting against lefties. The Twins do. 

If you are looking for PHers 

It should also be pointed out that

Solano had 394 AB's

Castro had 358 AB's

Farmer had 326 AB's

That ain't pinch hitting.  

Those nice little pre-season plans of Gordon facing the right hander and Solano facing the left hander was out the window before May.  

Go GET HITTERS period. Personally... I could care less what batters box they stand in. 

 

 

 

[harmony55]

19 hours ago, tony&rodney said:

Falvey is not playing fantasy baseball. There isn't a GM in MLB that would trade Max Kepler for Ty France, save for the suddenly flabbergasted Jerry Dipoto of Seattle. Ty France is a good ballplayer but he does not compare to Kepler. For one, you might consider that they play different positions. 

I'm not sure why you look down on Kepler and Polanco or if you genuinely believe that the Twins need the money badly and should just dump both players.

I will be the first to openly congratulate you if Falvey just decides that both Polanco and Kepler have limited value. Until the final decisions are made, we can wait.

Thank you for the feedback.

Max Kepler has been rumored to be a trade candidate this offseason and this thread discusses a possible Twins acquisition of Ty France. Offered was a comparison of some metrics for the two players: a one-time All Star with two years of team control and a never-All Star with one year of team control.

Kepler is more valuable to the Mariners than Jorge Polanco but, as noted, the teams probably don't match up in a trade.

BTW the chances that the Twins retain Polanco increased Saturday when the Red Sox apparently filled their need at second base. Polanco may well continue his purposeful role with Twins.

[chpettit19]

8 hours ago, tony&rodney said:

Falvey is not playing fantasy baseball. There isn't a GM in MLB that would trade Max Kepler for Ty France, save for the suddenly flabbergasted Jerry Dipoto of Seattle. Ty France is a good ballplayer but he does not compare to Kepler. For one, you might consider that they play different positions. 

I'm not sure why you look down on Kepler and Polanco or if you genuinely believe that the Twins need the money badly and should just dump both players.

I will be the first to openly congratulate you if Falvey just decides that both Polanco and Kepler have limited value. Until the final decisions are made, we can wait.

Have you looked at what Ty France has done the last few years? I don't think these comparisons to Polanco and Kepler are that far off. Unless you think Max is suddenly going to be his 2nd half self for an entire season Ty has been a better hitter since 2021 than Max has been. And he's pretty close to Polanco. He doesn't have quite the power of the other 2, but he's a really good hitter. Others may be undervaluing Polanco and Kepler, but you may be overvaluing them, too. Or undervaluing France. He's every bit the player those other 2 are, just in some different ways. The only reason I wouldn't trade Kepler for France is because I think the Twins have a bigger need in the cOF than at 1B. But if you're just going on pure talent it's a pretty darn even trade.

Since 2021:

 

Since 2020:

[Fatbat]

Ty France is a nice player but I wil stick with AK and Miranda on a platoon.