Instant Reaction: Twins Pass on Trade Deadline

[Blyleven2011]

1 hour ago, Dman said:

I think it makes sense they stayed pat. They didn't really have much for difference makers that they could afford to trade and they couldn't really afford to pay with the few potential star players they might have on the farm to get anything of significant value.  

I will say I like what Cleveland did.  With a lot of their pitchers down already this year they took risks to get better next year and like the Twins will hope the players they have will step up down the stretch.  I really like that the Guardians FO has the balls to make moves for the future as well as stay in the present.

Chicago had a really good deadline as well.  Whether all those new pieces will work out is hard to say but what they had wasn't working so I like what they did as well.

The thing about this deadline is that is was really kind of a go big or go home deadline.  Some teams made minor moves but the teams really in it to win it made big, bold moves.  Still it will only work out for one team not all of them.

I will say I thought the team would move some players.  Nick Gordon will be back.  Lewis will be back.  They will most likely add Kuechel.  It seems they will need 40 man room at some point. Their bullpen is incredibly unreliable but I guess they can DFA their way there if needed I just thought they might try and clear the way by trying to get something for some of these guys but maybe no one was interested in this teams many under performers.  it is what it is.  Just have to hope this team turns things around in the second half.

Yes I hope there is some excitement from this team to finish the season , maybe a 10 plus winning streaks would help ...

To stand pat ...

Cleveland sold off pitcher and first basemen  so the FO probably decided  to stand pat and not trade for help cause we should win the division easily with a 500 record ...

Heck we could have traded 1 of gray or maeda ( pitching )  , Keplerfor something as his value has grown of late  and dfa Gallo  and still win the division with our younger players , the trades would have helped us reset for 2024 and beyond , but they stood pat when they should have traded for prospects because we can win the division with what we got but are going nowhere in the playoff unless we turn into the 2007 Colorado rockies and win 11 games in a row to end season and then sweep the nls /nlcs and get to the world series  , and then lose in 4 games to Boston  ...

We need angels in the outfield  ...

[Blyleven2011]

57 minutes ago, mikelink45 said:

I can't agree. Front office needed to do something. It didn't need to be major but it had to show that they cared and believed in the team enough to try to cure some of the problems. The fact they did nothing and the fact that the team is now at a 5 game losing streak means that the rest of us who have spent the season cheering for this team are the real losers. 

Well said ...

[Seth Stohs]

2 hours ago, Whitey333 said:

 My question is when will this FO and current coaches be held accountable?  The players don't appear to be held accountable why should the bosses I guess.

So, what does this look like? People say it all the time, but what does it mean? "Held Accountable." 

What does that mean for Falvey?

What does that mean for Levine?

What does that mean for Baldelli and his coaches?

What does that mean for the players?

There has to be a way to hold people accountable without always jumping to firing people Falvey has completely altered the thinking of the organization. THey have focused on pitching. They've been to the playoffs half the time. Their records have been better overall than the previous years. 

The manager is an extension fof the manger and only can play the roster he's given. The manager can make all the right decisions and the coaches can say all the right things and the players still have to do it. 

Obviously they can't fire all the players... but what does holding players accountable mean? Benching them for not performing? Buxton was shutdown for a few games in a row. Last year, Celestino was benched for a couple of poor decisions. Playing time is about the only option, and when you've got 4 bench options, who are you going to play ahead of Correa when he doesn't hit? 

[Fat Calvin]

14 minutes ago, Seth Stohs said:

So, what does this look like? People say it all the time, but what does it mean? "Held Accountable." 

What does that mean for Falvey?

What does that mean for Levine?

What does that mean for Baldelli and his coaches?

What does that mean for the players?

There has to be a way to hold people accountable without always jumping to firing people Falvey has completely altered the thinking of the organization. THey have focused on pitching. They've been to the playoffs half the time. Their records have been better overall than the previous years. 

The manager is an extension fof the manger and only can play the roster he's given. The manager can make all the right decisions and the coaches can say all the right things and the players still have to do it. 

Obviously they can't fire all the players... but what does holding players accountable mean? Benching them for not performing? Buxton was shutdown for a few games in a row. Last year, Celestino was benched for a couple of poor decisions. Playing time is about the only option, and when you've got 4 bench options, who are you going to play ahead of Correa when he doesn't hit? 

What pitching did they develop other than Ober and Duran?  And getting to the playoffs "half the time" is mostly due to the spoils of the previous administration.  The FO and our beloved manager need to go!

[Fatbat]

Sometimes, the best deals are the ones that never take place. 
 

[D.C Twins]

"The manager can make all the right decisions"

Not. Even. Close.

'What does that mean for Baldelli and his coaches?' :  Fired

"What does that mean for the players?":  The Bench or DFA

[Eris]

Mostly agree with the article. I would have liked the Twins to be selective sellers. Maybe moving Sony Gray. But they would have needed someone who would have made such a trade worthwhile 

[Danchat]

1 hour ago, Seth Stohs said:

What does that mean for Falvey?

What does that mean for Levine?

What does that mean for Baldelli and his coaches?

There has to be a way to hold people accountable without always jumping to firing people Falvey has completely altered the thinking of the organization.

They've gotten seven years and their promise of sustained competitiveness hasn't panned out. They're only 'competitive' this year because of the division and would be in 4th or 5th place in another division (8th/9th out of 15 in the AL). In my opinion they haven't fielded a playoff contender since 2020. The only other thing other than firing Falvey/Levine would be moving them elsewhere in the organization and having someone else run the team.

 

1 hour ago, Seth Stohs said:

The manager is an extension fof the manger and only can play the roster he's given. The manager can make all the right decisions and the coaches can say all the right things and the players still have to do it. 

I agree, but it should be up to the new FO to decide his fate. Many of the rationalizations around Baldelli's coaching have been misguided (for example, Rocco gets praise for letting starters go longer in 2023 compared to 2022, but that was because the majority of his starters sucked the third time through, and now he actually has a good rotation that can be trusted), or the bullpen issues that everyone complains about, but he's been forced to put in relievers who are not up to snuff into places they don't belong and people criticize even the tiniest misuse of a player.

It goes to show that the roster just isn't good enough. The core from 2017-20 has been mostly dismantled and what we have now is middling, with the top talent we do have spending far too much time on the injured list. The pitching pipeline never materialized, forcing them to make several trades for starters (which aren't bad moves individually, but we were expecting a Cleveland-like pipeline that we would be able to draw from), and they have the hardest time building a bullpen (which is something I expect a hiccup from with the volatility of the position, but the past few years of Joe Smith/Emilio Pagan/AAAA arms/forcing them to acquire arms at the deadline has not worked.

1 hour ago, Seth Stohs said:

What does that mean for the players?

Frankly, I don't know. Perhaps reboot the team culture / fill out the coaching staff with new faces and see what works. Maybe that doesn't change the status quo or even backfires, but "trusting the process" without any results is futile. When it comes to the players/talent I don't believe a full-on rebuild is required to get this team into perennial playoff contender status, but the franchise needs a reboot via a new GM / team president.

[Cris E]

I only wonder when they found out Stewart was broken.  By releasing that news 30 minutes after the deadline it sort of looks like they suppressed it to make the job of picking up a reliever easier, but then they didn't do it even though several decent options were moved quite late in the day for not much.  Even if Falvey wanted to walk into that clubhouse tonight and tell them he stood firm because he believed in them he should have filled that hole. They needed one more solid arm out there and the guy they need isn't on the roster.

[Captian Hook]

The VERY LEAST the Twins could have done to improve the team at Trade Deadline would have been to DFA Joey Gallo and activate Dallas Keuchel.

A six man rotation the rest of the season would have helped protect the tiring arms of Joe Ryan, Bailey Ober and Kenta Madea.

DFAing Gallo would have positively improved the Twins offense.

[Riverbrian]

10 hours ago, Seth Stohs said:

Playing time is about the only option, and when you've got 4 bench options, who are you going to play ahead of Correa when he doesn't hit? 

I gotta say... I really hate this last sentence. This is what Kills a team. 

Who would play SS if Correa was hurt? That's the guy that you are going to play ahead of Correa.

If that guy can't top .200 AVG .600 OPS.

Then you gotta get a different guy. 

That justification of saying you don't have anyone else is what kills a team and if the front office hasn't produced or found players who could at least hit .210 with a .630 OPS... I'm not sure what to say. 

There are levels in between Playing every day and sitting on the bench every day.

What kind of playing time does that .200 AVG .600 OPS earn you? 

 

[nclahammer]

Excellent read and points made Seth.  Gallo won't finish the season with Minnesota with Lewis & others coming off the IL soon (Lewis will solidify 3B.)  Addition by subtraction IMO.  Buxton & Correa stepping up their games and Kirilloff getting healthy will do wonders down the stretch for the Twins.

[Twins_Fan_in_NJ]

Not adding to the bullpen when Stewart is likely headed for TJ surgery is just mind boggling. 

[Riverbrian]

13 hours ago, Seth Stohs said:

The reality is that this is a flawed team. If they want to truly be a contender for more than an AL Central title, today wasn't going to be the game changer. They weren't getting Verlander or Scherzer. They weren't going to get Goldschmidt. 

No, what this team needs (whether they added bit pieces or not) is for their own players to start playing like we know that they can. Or, that we know that they have in the past. They need Byron Buxton to hit like Byron Buxton did most of 2022. They need Carlos Correa to hit like Carlos Correa did most of his entire career. They need Sonny Gray to pitch like he did the first two or three months. They need their veteran starters to pitch like they did early. 

And they need their young players to keep playing. They have, in general, been the players to not only meet expectations but in many cases exceed them and be really good (see Edouardo Julien). The need Alex Kirilloff to only miss 10 days and then get back to his Player of the Week performance. They need Matt Wallner. They need Trevor Larnach. They need Royce Lewis. They need Joe Ryan to turn things back around. 

You say this is a flawed team.

You say that we need this flawed team to become unflawed.  

The best pitching staff we have had in decades and there is nothing that we can do because the flaws need to be unflawed first? 

Trade deadline is for addressing flaws and I really hope you are not going to respond with this .500 team is too deeply flawed while the .500 Cubs are not flawed? 

There are levels in between a Paul Goldschmidt acquisition and a Joey Gallo subtraction.  

Buyers buy and seller sell. Anything else is standing still. 

 

[jmlease1]

Would people feel better if they acquired Floro yesterday rather than a few days sooner? I mean, then they wouldn't have "done nothing" at the deadline.

Would I have liked to have seen them pick up a RH corner OF and a veteran reliever? Sure. Would I have wanted Royce Lewis to have been sent out for a 1-year rental? Heck no. (There's also a real possibility that the teams selling off in our division either weren't interested in dealing with us or were going to charge an extra premium)

Deadline day can result in a lot of bad choices or real desperation. Look at what happened with Houston, who reacquired Verlander: as seen elsewhere, they essentially gave up two real prospects and got half a season less to save a little money over 2 years when they wouldn't toss an extra $6M to bring him back in the offseason. 

If I'm a Cleveland fan, I'm pretty bitter about my ownership, because selling feels like throwing the towel in on a season where they could have stolen the division. In baseball, all you need is a chip a chair and a chance and the teams that are treating this like the NBA and acting like if you're not an obvious top 5 teams you should sell it off until you are are missing out on opportunities.

Twins are still a flawed and frustrating team...but I'd still rather have that and a chance at the division and playoff baseball than giving up.

[JD-TWINS]

15 hours ago, lukeduke1980 said:

I expect adding payroll was an issue.   Probably not forecasting a strong gate for a 500 team, and Brent suter doesn't really draw.  Meanwhile the division looks ripe for the taking next year too even if Twins lower payroll a little with Larnach replacing Kepler, Miranda over gallo and Varland over Gray.  Probably have the Division for 24 and 25.

They’ll win nothing if they are relying on Miranda - he’s done - based on his performance the entirety of ‘23. Larnach has shown nothing that says he’s an offensive improvement & has shown that he’s a defensive subtraction v. Kepler. Should maybe try Larnach, but no for sure upgrade.

Adding Raley from Mets had about $1.5M left in ‘23 and there was an option at $6.5M for ‘24.

Hand - Chafin - Suter are all cheaper and if they help us win games the fans will come. Knowing Stewart is going backwards as of Saturday and not getting one arm?!?!?!

Mahle - Gray - Polanco - Taylor - Solano - Kepler - Maeda -  Gallo …….these potential/probable subtractions in ‘24 equate to $70M ……from $153M payroll in ‘23. We can re-sign Maeda & Solano & keep Kepler OR Polanco & have $45-$50M left over. We have plenty of budget room going forward!!!!!

My assumption is they plan on getting to later August & then pulling others into relief from inside the system. Headrick - SWR - maybe Varland.

Would really like to see Kuechel to fill in, for 30 days plus, to get starters some skipped starts!

[David Maro]

Pohlad stepped in and said you play with what you have. This team is still the same as 2019,but without the talent. You see them swing for the fences every at bat. Without Solano coming off the bench for Joey Strike Out they would of lost 6th in a row. The off season has to change everything about this team. You can't have a team that thinks they all are homerun hitters. Getting 400 to 500 at bats gets you 20 to 30 homeruns,what about the other at bats. Going to the playoffs is the last thing this team needs.

[JD-TWINS]

I heard Brian Cashman on MLB & he used the same comments of the Twins FO, ……”the market got 3-4 more buyers over the past week & that made buying more cloudy/difficult”. An excuse. Not sure how it blocked us from targeting 5 different relievers and working a deal for one of them?

Reality check- Sanity check on the lack of moves by Twins…………Cleveland is down McKenzie & Bieber until mid-late September. They also traded Civale…….I looked at our remaining schedule last night because I was curious what the “5th easiest remaining schedule” looks like. We have 15 games out of 54 remaining against over .500 clubs. Then, out of curiosity, I looked at Guardian’s schedule. Including the games v. Twins, they have 38 games out of 54 remaining against over .500 clubs. Logic would say that we are a strong favorite to win the Division.

That said, we get through September & then DFA Gallo, we carry 14 bats into October, & we shrink our Staff to 4 starters with either Ryan or Gray moving to the Pen. Potentially, we could add internally in September to the staff and look at Headrick or Varland in relief roles as well!

We have a shot to compete in playoffs. 1st round we would host the worst Wild Card and we get all 3 games in Minneapolis!

Need 31 more wins out of 54 and we’re good!

[John Belinski]

What a disappointment that the front office did nothing.  There is just no excuse for not adding one or two players to help Twins win during the balance of the season and during the playoffs. Guess the front office is willing to wait for players to come back from IL, but that is unknown if and when they will come back.  Fans certainly should be disappointed with the front office for not trying to help improve team.

[gman]

I am fine with none of the Twins prospects being thrown away for a 2 month rental. Let those players stay here get better, some won't.

I am actually fine with Gallo being on the roster to playing first base since the Twins are short of qualified first basemen on the roster.  I would have preferred they DFA Gallo and bring Williams up to play first base although his July has been almost as bad as his June was good. There are others they could have subtracted without adding anything to the big league roster in those trades, that would have made the team better going forward.

The Twins have 6 core veterans everyday players who are supposed to be leading this team, Correa, Buxton, Gallo, Kepler, Vasquez and Polanco. Gallo and Kepler are playing to their career norms and if you look at it, Buxton is close. Polanco has been injured too much to know, but on the other hand it seems as if his off season approach wasn't good enough to get him ready to play. Vasguez and Correa are just no where close. This is the group we need to replace half of to give the 2024 team a better chance.

The Twins can and should win the division but of course they might not. But if too many of these key veterans are playing close to their career norms, is there any reason to keep them around into the future? They have not been good enough. I don't want to hear or see one of them stand up at seasons end and say "Its on me, I wasn't playing good enough." We know you're not playing good enough, but fix it now.