Star Tribune article: Is Twins ownership under new boss Joe Pohlad losing patience in favor of urgency?

[jctwins]

https://www.startribune.com/joe-pohlad-feeling-urgency-as-minnesota-twins-falter-jim-souhan/600288463/

I expected this to have been covered by now. Not sure why it hasn't. 

I will believe it when I see it, but this is an extremely tiny glimmer of hope.

 

 

[Woof Bronzer]

Did it take 2.5 years of ineptitude for the Pohlads to notice?  "Urgency" is not a word I would use to describe these owners.  

[Mike Sixel]

5 minutes ago, Woof Bronzer said:

Did it take 2.5 years of ineptitude for the Pohlads to notice?  "Urgency" is not a word I would use to describe these owners.  

They literally have a new guy in charge.....so, yes, this would be urgency. 

[CRF]

I'm honestly not sure if the manager, the FO, and the owner(s), know what the word "urgency" means. 

[Nashvilletwin]

Boy, the plethora of comments under that Strib article are pretty much universally brutal. Twins fans more broadly seem bored, disappointed and looking for changes with this team.  But it also sounds like they care - they want to see their home team succeed.  We shall see how long it takes for the Nephew to show his mettle.

[Vanimal46]

It appears Joe watches the team unlike uncle Jim, so that’s a good start. “Urgent/urgency” is the buzzword being used. I know he’s been behind the scenes for years now, but this is year 1 as the new public face for the Pohlads.

It will be a bold move if he ends up making sweeping changes in the organization. It’s his first opportunity to make his mark… 

[SpicyGarvSauce]

"What's nice, and what I respect from our core group of players, is that they're not backing down from their performance. They own up to it," Pohlad said. "And that's something that I really respect and I think all of our fans should respect."

Gee, I am so glad that guys making millions playing a game can own up to their ineptitude.

What a positive development, folks.

[Mike Sixel]

Just now, SpicyGarvSauce said:

"What's nice, and what I respect from our core group of players, is that they're not backing down from their performance. They own up to it," Pohlad said. "And that's something that I really respect and I think all of our fans should respect."

Gee, I am so glad that guys making millions playing a game can own up to their ineptitude.

What a positive development, folks.

What do you expect him to say? Realistically, so that other players will still want to come here, what do you expect an owner to say?

[SpicyGarvSauce]

15 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

What do you expect him to say? Realistically, so that other players will still want to come here, what do you expect an owner to say?

You missed the point. It isn't that he said it - it is just the idea that these guys are "owning" up to how bad they stink.

[gunnarthor]

This season is strange. I thought there were ways the offense could be really good. In a perfect world, Correa, Buxton and Polanco could all be 5+ WAR guys, up the middle. Larnich/Wallner/Kiriloff would step up in some manner. We had Lewis, Julien, and Miranda ready to contribute. If you squint, things could have gone well and, if you really got lucky, really well.

But I thought the pitching would be bad - and it still might. I didn't think they had enough arms in their staff and that they'd start hot but falter. That could still happen but it's been much better than I thought it would be. The end result is what I thought - slightly below .500 - but how they got there is completely different. 

I say that b/c it might be worth taking whatever else I say with a grain of salt but, to me, it looks like this is a patchwork team - both too young and too old at the same time. We have a few core players in their prime with nothing to support them. It's not clear if we should reload or rebuild. I think we should sell. I think we can still win the central without, for example, Gray. But reading this article, it seems more likely that Pohlad wants us to be buyers. Not sure that's a good thing. 

[Dave Borton]

2 hours ago, Nashvilletwin said:

Twins fans more broadly seem bored, disappointed and looking for changes with this team.

I have never been to a Twins game where fans booed. Yet yesterday, they came out. Suggest you are right.

[Dave Borton]

2 hours ago, jctwins said:

https://www.startribune.com/...

I expected this to have been covered by now. Not sure why it hasn't.

Not trying to be sarcastic. I read the article and saw no 'urgency' in his use of words.

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

Haven’t dived into the article yet, but this could be a diplomatic way of saying that the players are owning up to their performance, but non-players haven’t owned up. 

If I recall, it was over the All Star break in 2016 when Ryan was relieved or stepped down. 

[Mike Sixel]

4 minutes ago, Hosken Bombo Disco said:

Haven’t dived into the article yet, but this could be a diplomatic way of saying that the players are owning up to their performance, but non-players haven’t owned up. 

If I recall, it was over the All Star break in 2016 when Ryan was relieved or stepped down. 

It's also just the kind of thing a leader says, true or not......so I didn't miss the point.....Other than "You're fired" or "You're hired" very little of what the owners say matters at all, and might not even fully reflect their feelings or how things really are. Leaders don't bash their employees in public, generally....they try to be diplomatically nice.

[Vanimal46]

Joe using the buzzword “urgent” was well thought out and researched by the PR team. That word gives enough emphasis to please and alleviate fans looking for change very soon, but just vague enough to not attach a timeline to. 

[Nine of twelve]

41 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

It's also just the kind of thing a leader says, true or not.

This is true regarding what he says publicly. As Mike said, a good leader rarely publicly throws followers under the bus. What is more telling is what is being said in one-on-one confidential conversations. We aren't privy to those.

[Linus]

Don’t judge any of these people by what they say rather by what they do. So far that is nothing. Zero. Nada. Zilch. 

[Craig Arko]

3 minutes ago, Linus said:

Don’t judge any of these people...

Could probably safely stop right there.

[Linus]

4 minutes ago, Craig Arko said:

Could probably safely stop right there.

Well they are all getting judged all the time so there is that. 

[Richie the Rally Goat]

On 7/10/2023 at 6:58 PM, Vanimal46 said:

Joe using the buzzword “urgent” was well thought out and researched by the PR team. That word gives enough emphasis to please and alleviate fans looking for change very soon, but just vague enough to not attach a timeline to. 

This is where I’m at too. I’ll believe the urgency when I see it in action. In order to change there actually has to be, you know… change

[Major League Ready]

On 7/10/2023 at 4:34 PM, SpicyGarvSauce said:

You missed the point. It isn't that he said it - it is just the idea that these guys are "owning" up to how bad they stink.

What's your point?  Would you prefer they did not acknowledge they are failing and need to do something about it?  

[Major League Ready]

On 7/10/2023 at 8:28 PM, Linus said:

Don’t judge any of these people by what they say rather by what they do. So far that is nothing. Zero. Nada. Zilch. 

We don't see much of what they do.  How do you judge actions when you have minimal knowledge of what led to those actions? As sports fans we tend to speak with great certainty about these things when we don't have nearly enough information in most cases to judge things like hiring and firing.

[wabene]

On 7/10/2023 at 3:05 PM, Nashvilletwin said:

Boy, the plethora of comments under that Strib article are pretty much universally brutal.

All sections of the Strib comments are the Chernobyl of newspaper boards. I don't get it because that has always been a quality paper with an exceptional sports section. Minnesota has a well educated population, yet here we are. The contrast to the discourse at a paper like, say, the NYT is stark. 

[laloesch]

On 7/10/2023 at 3:50 PM, Woof Bronzer said:

Did it take 2.5 years of ineptitude for the Pohlads to notice?  "Urgency" is not a word I would use to describe these owners.  

Agreed.  I think Joe hopes this is a dry spell that will pass after reading Jim Souhan's piece.  I didn't see any sign from him that changes might be coming, just some vague story about learning to drive a manual transmission car and the stops and stalls of learning it comparing it to the Twin's season (rolls eyes).   

The offense is brutally bad, far worse than even the bullpen deficiencies. Correa and Buxton have been awful. Both of those guys should be ashamed of their production halfway through and with Kepler, Gallo, it's even worse.  Michael Taylor has no history of offensive production so you really can't expect more from him other than defense, but the rest have been putrid.  Almost no-one in the lineup is showing any sign of life besides Kirilloff, Julien, Solano, and Lewis (who's currently hurt).  It's not a good situation.

I think the Twins need to trade a major chip to bring in a hitter or two.  Start with Sonny who's going to be gone after this season anyways and go from there.  I also think that at some point you HAVE to start looking at Baldelli and what he's doing in the clubhouse.  This team might need a kick in the rear end more than anything else.  With as good as the starting pitching has been this year it's a bloody shame they are squandering it all with such a bad offense.

[Azviking101]

On 7/10/2023 at 5:35 PM, gunnarthor said:

This season is strange. I thought there were ways the offense could be really good. In a perfect world, Correa, Buxton and Polanco could all be 5+ WAR guys, up the middle. Larnich/Wallner/Kiriloff would step up in some manner. We had Lewis, Julien, and Miranda ready to contribute. If you squint, things could have gone well and, if you really got lucky, really well.

But I thought the pitching would be bad - and it still might. I didn't think they had enough arms in their staff and that they'd start hot but falter. That could still happen but it's been much better than I thought it would be. The end result is what I thought - slightly below .500 - but how they got there is completely different. 

I say that b/c it might be worth taking whatever else I say with a grain of salt but, to me, it looks like this is a patchwork team - both too young and too old at the same time. We have a few core players in their prime with nothing to support them. It's not clear if we should reload or rebuild. I think we should sell. I think we can still win the central without, for example, Gray. But reading this article, it seems more likely that Pohlad wants us to be buyers. Not sure that's a good thing. 

You talk like the pitching is middle of the road. They’ve basically been the best in the entire league through half a season. This is also with an even schedule league-wide instead of playing half their  games against their division. Sure, there might be some injuries and some pitchers like Ryan might continue to come back to earth, but you’re not giving this pitching staff the credit they deserve. They literally led the league in almost all pitching stats until the final game before the break. 

[Azviking101]

8 minutes ago, laloesch said:

Agreed.  I think Joe hopes this is a dry spell that will pass after reading Jim Souhan's piece.  I didn't see any sign from him that changes might be coming, just some vague story about learning to drive a manual transmission car and the stops and stalls of learning it comparing it to the Twin's season (rolls eyes).   

The offense is brutally bad, far worse than even the bullpen deficiencies. Correa and Buxton have been awful. Both of those guys should be ashamed of their production halfway through and with Kepler, Gallo, it's even worse.  Michael Taylor has no history of offensive production so you really can't expect more from him other than defense, but the rest have been putrid.  Almost no-one in the lineup is showing any sign of life besides Kirilloff, Julien, Solano, and Lewis (who's currently hurt).  It's not a good situation.

I think the Twins need to trade a major chip to bring in a hitter or two.  Start with Sonny who's going to be gone after this season anyways and go from there.  I also think that at some point you HAVE to start looking at Baldelli and what he's doing in the clubhouse. 

You don’t add to a team through subtraction. You’ve all complained for decades about the pitching sucking and now half the fan base wants to trade Gray simply because he’s a free agent at seasons end. Do the Dodgers, Astros, Yankees etc trade their players at the deadline because they’re an impending free agent?

You don’t subtract from the leagues best pitching lol. What a ridiculous idea. If the offense provides league average production in the second half this is a team that has a chance to make noise in the playoffs if healthy. 

[laloesch]

3 minutes ago, Azviking101 said:

You don’t add to a team through subtraction. You’ve all complained for decades about the pitching sucking and now half the fan base wants to trade Gray simply because he’s a free agent at seasons end. Do the Dodgers, Astros, Yankees etc trade their players at the deadline because they’re an impending free agent?

You don’t subtract from the leagues best pitching lol. What a ridiculous idea. If the offense provides league average production in the second half this is a team that has a chance to make noise in the playoffs if healthy. 

It doesn't matter how good the pitching is if the offense is that bad, which it is. Sonny Gray is gone at seasons end.  You can't let a talent like that walk away for nothing that's just foolish. If the Twins were going to extend him it would have happened by now.

[Azviking101]

It sucks watching a team with such good pitching be under .500, but they’re in that situation. I truly believe that a league average offense in the second half and this team can make noise in the playoffs. 
 

While I don’t believe in the front office, I do believe in their ability to try and do something at the deadline. They have made moves each offseason and trade deadline lately. Sure, they haven’t really gone well, but they’re going to make some noise regardless. 
 

If the moves fail, they’ll likely be gone. Gotta give them some credit for building the best pitching staff that any of us can remember on a Twins staff. We have to hope they can fix this team in the second half. If they can’t, they’re gone. 
 

[USAFChief]

1 minute ago, laloesch said:

It doesn't matter how good the pitching is if the offense is that bad, which it is. Sonny Gray is gone at seasons end.  You can't let a talent like that walk away for nothing that's just foolish. If the Twins were going to extend him it would have happened by now.

Won't the Twins be able to extend a QO and recoup a draft pick, as well as get the benefit of Gray pitching through the end of the season?

[laloesch]

2 minutes ago, USAFChief said:

Won't the Twins be able to extend a QO and recoup a draft pick, as well as get the benefit of Gray pitching through the end of the season?

Sure they could go that route but if they want to maximize trade value they would trade him before the deadline.