Passan: Kiner-Falefa coming to the Twins

[puckstopper1]

28 minutes ago, Squirrel said:

This has a 'Matt Capps for Wilson Ramos' feel to it ... crappity crap crap

So trading a back-up catcher for a proven closer who helped the team make the playoffs feels the same as trading a starting catcher for a good fielding, average hitter with no power? ?

[cHawk]

5 minutes ago, USAFChief said:

Find that quote.

I gotchu.

[USAFChief]

3 minutes ago, cHawk said:

I gotchu.

Still an awful trade.

 

 

[Otto von Ballpark]

16 minutes ago, Hosken Bombo Disco said:

With a DH now in both leagues, Garver is likely to be more valuable going forward than he was previously (setting aside the comparison with Arraez) 

But, Garver only has 2 more years of team control (same as Kiner-Falefa). And he’s already 31 years old. That looks like “short FA contract” value, rather than good trade value.

[4twinsJA]

Hate to see Garver go, but Twins needed SS. Now do Twins add veteran C to backup Jeffers or go with Rortvedt. Will need 3rd C at some point, not sure who is next is line after Rortvedt in Twins system. Maybe sign a depth C for AAA.

[cHawk]

1 minute ago, USAFChief said:

Still an awful trade.

 

 

Garver and Kiner-Falefa had about the WAR last year. Kiner-Falefa can at least play SS, which is more than I can say about all the other Twins infielders.

[notoriousgod71]

This front office makes me wish no agreement between MLBPA and MLB had been agreed upon.

[USAFChief]

3 minutes ago, cHawk said:

Garver and Kiner-Falefa had about the WAR last year. Kiner-Falefa can at least play SS, which is more than I can say about all the other Twins infielders.

We both know WAR is a counting stat. Garver had 243 PAs last year. IKF 677.

 

The Twins certainly needed a SS. I was naively hoping they would acquire something that would be an asset. Spend some gd money.

 

IKF will be something we are all hoping to replace, immediately. 

 

 

[Otto von Ballpark]

Interesting note: the Rangers organization used Kiner-Falefa for 30-some games at catcher each year from 2016-2019.

[KirbyDome89]

Am I missing something when it comes to IKF's defense? He won a GG but it was at 3B in a 60 game season. His numbers at SS last season look average to me. Unless he starts hitting I don't see the value in swapping Garver for him, especially if each player only has 2 years remaining. 

[wabene]

Garver and Jeffers were a particularly bad platoon mix and Rortvedt is a stellar backup catcher going forward imo. I really like him behind the plate. Garver is quite a guy and a great bat, but injuries/age....

[cHawk]

20 minutes ago, USAFChief said:

We both know WAR is a counting stat. Garver had 243 PAs last year. IKF 677.

Oh yeah. I completely overlooked that part. My bad.

[stringer bell]

57 minutes ago, jorgenswest said:

BR uses DRS. Fangraphs WAR was 2.3. That is a big discrepancy the Twins must be banking in for a player with no power or walks. This reminds me of the Hicks for Murphy deal. Murphy had a good defensive reputation with an empty .277 and .284 prior to the trade.

Murphy had never been a regular while Hicks gave the look of fourth outfielder (really struggled vs. RH pitching). Murphy busted and Hicks blossomed. I didn't love that trade, but understood why it was done. 

This trade seems like an overpay for a middle-of-the-road SS, but Garver has had injuries and he's 31 years old. The team will subtract one DH candidate and add speed and defense. The Twins seem to be betting heavy on Jeffers, which kind of brings us back to Murphy. 

[TheLeviathan]

53 minutes ago, Brock Beauchamp said:

When it comes to SS, this front office apparently has a type.

Still has 100 OPS on Simmons!

[Brock Beauchamp]

Just now, TheLeviathan said:

Still has 100 OPS on Simmons!

So does Mario Mendoza.

...

I actually checked and Mendoza does not have 100 OPS on Simmons but the joke is good enough that it stays.

[Nine of twelve]

I think the following dates were probably very significant in Falvine's decision process:

1/15/1991, 6/3/1997, and 9/25/1997

These are the birthdates of Garver, Jeffers, and Rortvedt, respectively. I think it's reasonable to project significant improvement from Jeffers and Rortvedt. I think it's also reasonable to project Garver's trade value as not increasing beyond the present. So I'm not too distressed about choosing to trade Garver now.

As to whom we have received in return, I don't know much. I choose to hope for the best.

[twinkiesfan11]

Sad to see Garver go, a fan favorite and giving up the highest upside player in a trade gives heartburn. 
 

You’re talking about a guy though who has never had more than 359 plate appearances in a big league season. Prone to injury and slumps, probably best suited to be a high level part time player. At age 31 it’s probably appropriate to move him for the right fit. 
 

IKF is younger, more versatile and plays a position of greater need. If Royce Lewis pans out he can transition into a very valuable “multi-position everyday player” which the Twins seem to value. Henriquez is a nice get also, can never have too much pitching depth. 

[Otto von Ballpark]

6 minutes ago, Brock Beauchamp said:

So does Mario Mendoza.

...

I actually checked and Mendoza does not have 100 OPS on Simmons but the joke is good enough that it stays.

[stringer bell]

Well, the team didn't want Polanco or Gordon as the principal shortstop. That makes sense to me. I would have liked to see one of the premium shortstops come to Minnesota, but among the trade candidates, I kind of like what Kiner-Falefa has to offer. This club has too many bat-first sluggers and they apparently have included Garver in that category. I haven't liked Garver's defense and the club hasn't used him often at DH or first base. How many games would he play if he was healthy all season? 100 or 110? What are the chances that he will avoid injury, including concussion? Kiner-Falefa has been durable, played plus defense at short and third, and he makes contact--a totally different player from Garver (and many other Twins). Kiner-Falefa will be 27 this month so there might be room for improvement offensively. I'm hoping that he plays as good defensively as Simmons and provides much more hitting and on the base paths than the Twins got last year.

[Otto von Ballpark]

6 minutes ago, Nine of twelve said:

I think the following dates were probably very significant in Falvine's decision process:

1/15/1991, 6/3/1997, and 9/25/1997

These are the birthdates of Garver, Jeffers, and Rortvedt, respectively.

I think I understand — GMs are less likely to get invited to offseason player birthday parties, right? 

[Nine of twelve]

Mods, can we consolidate the two trade threads?

[shortround81]

This adds nothing to the discussion, but my brain will never not see his last name as "Falafel" ?

[gunnarthor]

So I'm going to do something I don't normally do but I'll support the FO on this. Our lineup is pretty solid, even without Garver and we should expect some improvement from younger players and slumping players.

C - Jeffers
1B - Kiriloff
2B - Polanco
SS - ISK
3B - Donaldson
LF - Larnich
CF - Buxton
RF - Kepler
DH - Sano

That also has Arreaz as a floater/10th man whenever we rest someone. Barring injuries, a big concern w/Buxton, that's a playoff caliber offense, even without Garver. We also have a few Lewis and Martin ready to come up if there are issues in the OF or 2B.

I think Garver will excel in Texas but he's 31 and ISK will be 27 next year. Shortstop is a problem but if we have solid defense up the middle - doesn't have to be elite - it'll help the staff a lot. It makes sense to bring ISK in. I think there's more risk in this trade on us but it makes sense and it suggests that the FO is trying to create a competitive team for this year, rather than rebuilding. They still have to fix the pitching staff but this is a good start.

[Otto von Ballpark]

16 minutes ago, shortround81 said:

This adds nothing to the discussion, but my brain will never not see his last name as "Falafel" ?

One falafel with a side of garv sauce, coming right up!

[stringer bell]

3 minutes ago, gunnarthor said:

So I'm going to do something I don't normally do but I'll support the FO on this. Our lineup is pretty solid, even without Garver and we should expect some improvement from younger players and slumping players.

C - Jeffers
1B - Kiriloff
2B - Polanco
SS - ISK
3B - Donaldson
LF - Larnich
CF - Buxton
RF - Kepler
DH - Sano

That also has Arreaz as a floater/10th man whenever we rest someone. Barring injuries, a big concern w/Buxton, that's a playoff caliber offense, even without Garver. We also have a few Lewis and Martin ready to come up if there are issues in the OF or 2B.

I think Garver will excel in Texas but he's 31 and ISK will be 27 next year. Shortstop is a problem but if we have solid defense up the middle - doesn't have to be elite - it'll help the staff a lot. It makes sense to bring ISK in. I think there's more risk in this trade on us but it makes sense and it suggests that the FO is trying to create a competitive team for this year, rather than rebuilding. They still have to fix the pitching staff but this is a good start.

IKF, not ISK, correct? The unproven pieces of the position player puzzle would be Larnach and Jeffers. While Jeffers' BA didn't make it over the Mendoza line, he has ample power and should probably hit closer to his inaugural .270 than last year's .197, There will less room in the infield for Arraez, so perhaps he will get more time in the outfield. Of course, there will be injuries. I don't see much room for Nick Gordon unless he's considered viable in both the outfield and at shortstop. Kirilloff will probably get time in left and right as well as first base, with Sano getting reps at first. Miranda could fill in for any infield injury or maybe force his way to the majors. Not quite too much talent, but somewhere in the puzzle I think the Twins have enough run-scoring to be competitive. Pitching? Not so much.

[h2oface]

1 hour ago, KirbyDome89 said:

Am I missing something when it comes to IKF's defense? He won a GG but it was at 3B in a 60 game season. His numbers at SS last season look average to me. Unless he starts hitting I don't see the value in swapping Garver for him, especially if each player only has 2 years remaining. 

Assuming Falafel (I hate hyphenated names, too ? ) is a top SS defender because he got a GG at third (and we all know how deserving GGs are and what they mean, right Jeter, and Dozier) is like assuming Polanco will be good at short because he was good a second.

[bean5302]

2 hours ago, Otto von Ballpark said:

Baseball Trade Values thinks this is pretty close to even:

If you're trading multiple players, you generally have to pay a premium. Probably 25%-ish. The Rangers should have been at 13-14 MTV with 2 players to get Garver. Instead, the MTV was 10% under Garver. It really doesn't seem like a trade the Twins did will with at all in my opinion.

[shortround81]

42 minutes ago, Otto von Ballpark said:

One falafel with a side of garv sauce, coming right up!

Too soon, man. Too soon ?

[goulik]

1 hour ago, shortround81 said:

This adds nothing to the discussion, but my brain will never not see his last name as "Falafel" ?

Well, at least you’ll be able to spell his first name right “Isaiah”…right?

[shortround81]

5 minutes ago, goulik said:

Well, at least you’ll be able to spell his first name right “Isaiah”…right?

Issaquah? (That joke kills in the Seattle area metro)