Is Cruz a MUST signing? And what if he doesn't fit?

[Battle ur tail off]

 

Do we say no to Rosario and Cruz, take that money, go after Trevor Bauer then move Sano to DH with the combination of the upcoming threesome between left field and 1st base, 

 

Curious why they would go after Trevor Bauer now? You would be buying HIGH on him right now. They had a chance to trade for him for almost nothing and didn't do so when an Ace was needed. Now we are going to overpay in free agency?

I honestly doubt this will happen. Also, let's remember, Bauer has a pain at times and had a GREAT year last year, but over his career has been more of a #2-3 type guy. 

 

I think if this front office has taught us anything is that when it comes to pitching, they go after diamonds in the rough. Guys like Maeda who no one though could have the year he just had. 

 

They will also be gunshy IMO, when they just got done taking a chance for big money on a big name and getting almost zero in return for it last year. I think if anything, you will see them resign Odo and make a trade or pickup on someone that hasn't been spectacular, but is younger in age and has a "chance". 

[prouster]

I’d sure love to have Cruz back. If that doesn’t work out, Kyle Schwarber could be a nice alternative on a one year deal.

[Major League Ready]

 

[Major League Ready]

 

Interesting roster, but you forgot Kiriloff. They brought him up for a playoff game and Rooker stinks in the field so he can't be the everyday repalcement for Rosario. You have to assume that Kiriloff opens in LF unless they sign a FA. In any event, he will be on the opening day roster. I could see that roster less La Stella or Profar, add Adrellton Simmons at the predicted 2 years, $17m or $8.5 per year. You now don't need Adrianza, because Polanco is the 2b, backs up at SS, and Arraez is the super utility.  Add Kiriloff at 555k and the salaries go down 500k or essentially match. 

 

I thought about the Simmons scenario and it makes sense. Would have no problem with it.

 

I did not forget Kirilloff. Rooker is the most proven and had already been promoted. Yes, Kirilloff was added for a game but neither Kirilloff or Larnach have proven they are ready. I would add the team is not going to blow a year of control to have him for an extra 6 weeks this year. They could also play Schwaber in this plan until Kirilloff or Larnach proves ready. That would be incompetence and they are not incompetent.

[Doctor Gast]

We can look at the stats & try to justify or not about signing Cruz. But we need also to look at the intangibles, which is his leadership, example of discipline, mentorship & club house presence. In '17 the FO gave up on the Twins & traded away the core but they came back & qualified  for the PS. In '18 they thought they had a shot to progress in the PS but they tanked. What was the difference? Tori Hunter! Although he didn't have the stats that showed he contributed but his leadership & clubhouse presence was invaluable.

Cruz has been that morale compass for the Twins in '19 & '20. He`s been that leader on the field, dug out, clubhouse & off the field. At this stage of his career he wants some security which is understandable. W/ a 2 yr. deal he can pad his stats & secure his income for himself & his charities. I think if we offer him a 2yr. agreeable guaranteed salary w/ a lot of incentives & a job at assistant hitting/ 1B coach when he retires. That`s a win/ win/ win, Cruz has his future guaranteed, Twins has his services & the Twins have their Cruz. What do you say!

[ashbury]

We can look at the stats & try to justify or not about signing Cruz. But we need also to look at the intangibles, which is his leadership, example of discipline, mentorship & club house presence. In '17 the FO gave up on the Twins & traded away the core but they came back & qualified  for the PS. In '18 they thought they had a shot to progress in the PS but they tanked. What was the difference? Tori Hunter! Although he didn't have the stats that showed he contributed but his leadership & clubhouse presence was invaluable.

Torii retired after 2015. That's some residual clubhouse presence he left behind.

 

[Doctor Gast]

 

Torii retired after 2015. That's some residual clubhouse presence he left behind.
 

Thanks Ash! I appreciate your correction, in my head I believed that Tori was around in '17. I stand corrected. '15 we didn't   go to the PS but we had a better season than expected & the year he left we lost 103 games      

[TwinsTerritory]

I've enjoyed reading this thread.  I'd love to see Cruz come back on a 1 year deal, but I'm intrigued by the idea of taking that money and spending it on the bench and the bullpen.  I've been playing around with it and I really like a roster like this.  It provides a lot more flexibility and I think this bullpen could be very good.

 

C Mitch Garver 1.9M

C Ryan Jeffers 0.6M

1B Miguel Sańo 11M

2B Luis Arráez 0.6M

SS Jorge Polanco 4.33M

LF Alex Kiriloff 0.6M

CF Byron Buxton 5.1M

RF Max Kepler 6.5M

OF David Dahl 4M

OF Brent Rooker 0.6M

Utl Enrique Hernandez 7M

Utl Ehire Adrianza 1M

 

SP Kenta Maeda 8.15M

SP Jose Berrios 6.1M

SP Jake Odorizzi 12M

SP Michael Pineda 10M

SP Lews Thorpe or Randy Dobnak or Devin Smeltzer 0.6M

 

RP Brad Hand 8M

RP Archie Bradley 5M

RP Taylor Rogers 6M

RP Tyler Duffey 2.2M

RP Jorge Alcala 0.6M

RP Caleb Thielbar 0.65M

RP Cody Stashak 0.6M

RP Derek Law 0.6M

 

Total Payroll $125M

 

 

[TopGunn#22]

Twins Territory,  It looks like you left out Donaldson, but I still come up with about $125.  

[TwinsTerritory]

 

Twins Territory,  It looks like you left out Donaldson, but I still come up with about $125.  

 

Twins Territory,  It looks like you left out Donaldson, but I still come up with about $125.  

I did forget him when typing it up, but it totals $125M with him.  Thanks for the catch!

[MileHighTwinsFan]

Idea - Twins offer Nelson Cruz a $13M one year deal with a bonus of $2M if MLB goes to a universal DH this season.  Twins get their DH and Cruz gets assurance that he is getting proper value as the market for DH remains in flux.

 

[Brandon]

With Rosario gone and Garver coming back from an injury filled year and same with Donaldson I guess, We should sign a power hitter preferably Cruz but there are other options.  I prefer Cruz as he is such a good fit on the team and within the community and clubhouse.

 

[howeda7]

I would prefer him back, but I don't view it as a must. There are other DH options, especially if they can platoon it. How much would a platoon of say CJ Cron and Shin Choo Choo cost? Could you sign them both for $5 million total?

[tony&rodney]

Budget? If payroll is less than $120, there is no Nelson Cruz. 

If the Twins can go to $130, then Cruz is back.

... unless, the Twins sign Bauer. lol.

[darin617]

Without universal DH Cruz has maybe 3 landing spots. Minnesota, Chicago, and possibly Texas.  There also is Marcell Ozuna who most likely fits in as another candidate as a DH with maybe 3 teams looking for help at DH.  No reason to cave in and overspend for either player. If anything let Chicago have whoever they want and sign the other for less. Basically what happened with the SS situation.

[howeda7]

 

Idea - Twins offer Nelson Cruz a $13M one year deal with a bonus of $2M if MLB goes to a universal DH this season.  Twins get their DH and Cruz gets assurance that he is getting proper value as the market for DH remains in flux.

I doubt that type of bonus is allowed under the CBA.

[TopGunn#22]

So Doc Bauer's article was originally posted last November.  It looked familiar and there I am with Post #15 expressing my admiration for Cruz as simply our best darn hitter.

HE MUST BE BROUGHT BACK !!

And now it's Jan. 28th (practically the 29th) and I've kinda come full circle.

We finally have a Gold-Glove caliber SS.

Polanco and Arraez will play 2B and be "Super Utility" guys.

We made a nice signing in JA Happ and the rotation of Maeda, Berrios, Happ, Pindea and Dobnak ain't bad

 

But I wouldn't mind still signing Paxton.

OR bringing in Mike Foltyneicz on the cheap with the chance we strike gold.

I'd love to see Trevor Rosenthal closing games out by blowing hitters away and a really strong Twins bullpen.

But there's only so much money and Cruz would apparently take up $15-$18 million of that.

Potential DH's:  Sano, Kiriloff, Arraez, Polanco, Donaldson, Larnach, Garver, Rooker, maybe Kepler.

That's 9 guys!

I don't see Jeffers as a DH.  Garver can DH if jeffers is catching. Otherwise the guys I listed are either better hitters or potentially better hitters than Jeffers.

That said, I'm kind of more interested in strengthening the team pitching wise than investing in a 41 year old DH no matter how much I admire him.

And we've got LOTS of young hitters I'd like to see get some additional AB's.  

We have Good Power.  But I don't think we'll see the record setting power of 2019 again.  At least not for a while.

We need to pitch better and catch the ball better and see bounce back years from Kepler, Polanco, Sano, and Garver.  

We need to be a better TEAM.  

I'd love to see Nellie back.  But I may just love some of that other stuff more.

[Out State Twin]

Only sign Cruz for a very team friendly deal as pitching trumps DH-ing every time. A shutout beats a home run. Remember if a DH was important the National league would have one.

[Rosterman]

I would make him fit if it is a one-year deal with a possible option for a second depending on performance.

 

Where it gets complicated is the need to get at bats in the possible DH spot for Sano, Donaldson or Garver. If you sign Cruz, you don't need Willians on the roster.

 

If you sign Cruz, you have to make a hard decision on the backup outfielder, assuming Kirilloff will be in left field. Do you keep Rooker, which would also be a given if you didn't sign Cruz. What do you do with Cave and Wade, both of whom have guys pushing them on the outfield chart.

 

The Twins are still up in the air on a reserve infielder. Who spells at first or third (Garver, Kirilloff, Rooker at first, Polanco and Gordon at third, I guess).

 

I like what Luis Arraez can bring to the batting order, depending on the state of the batting order.

 

Signing Cruz creates an issue I would deal with, and I would welcome him for any production he could give us going into his 41st year, as well as potential leadership from the bench.

 

 

[nicksaviking]

 

Only sign Cruz for a very team friendly deal as pitching Trumps DH-ing every time. A shutout beats a home run. Remember if a DH was important the National league would have one.

 

Well in the playoffs, the Twins have been getting skunked because no one was hitting. Well, except for Cruz.

 

Also, I don't know that basing what's important by what the NL has is a great idea. They have the Pirates after all.

[MABB1959]

Forget numbers.  Many of us like someone who is exciting and we can't wait for him to bat.  We haven't hand anyone like that since Kirby or Torii.  

[Out State Twin]

It is a well know fact that the AL has a DH to waste valuable money to benefit the NL which spends it on pitching and wins championships.

[Major League Ready]

 

It is a well know fact that the AL has a DH to waste valuable money to benefit the NL which spends it on pitching and wins championships.

 

Yep they are killing the American League. 10-10 over the last 20.

[Out State Twin]

Remember what Reusse told us "pitching trumps DHs"   Willie Nelson sang "mamma don't let your babies grow up to be DHs"

[TwinsTerritory]

I'm hoping the payroll can be in the $130M range.  If so, I would give the Twins an A- for the offseason if they:

 

a. bring back Cruz for 1yr/$12M (include a club option for year two with a buyout if necessary, but don't guarantee 2 years)

 

b. sign either Rosenthal, Colome, or Greene to a 2 year deal in the $6-8M per year range

 

c. bring back Clippard at 1yr/$3M

 

I know people will argue we need a starter (it would be ideal), but looking at the current roster and the likely budget I think we need a big bat and a couple relievers more than we need Odo or Paxton.

[TwinsTerritory]

I should mention that the reason I said A- is because trading for Musgrave was necessary for an A.  Still can't believe we wouldn't top the mediocre prospect haul that the Padres sent!

I'm hoping the payroll can be in the $130M range.  If so, I would give the Twins an A- for the offseason if they:

 

a. bring back Cruz for 1yr/$12M (include a club option for year two with a buyout if necessary, but don't guarantee 2 years)

 

b. sign either Rosenthal, Colome, or Greene to a 2 year deal in the $6-8M per year range

 

c. bring back Clippard at 1yr/$3M

 

I know people will argue we need a starter (it would be ideal), but looking at the current roster and the likely budget I think we need a big bat and a couple relievers more than we need Odo or Paxton.

 

[AlwaysinModeration]

I should mention that the reason I said A- is because trading for Musgrave was necessary for an A. Still can't believe we wouldn't top the mediocre prospect haul that the Padres sent!

Why do you view Musgrove as so critical?

[TwinsTerritory]

 

Why do you view Musgrove as so critical?

Not necessarily him, but someone like him that has performed well and appears may have another level, is cheap, and (most importantly) is available.  Not a lot of guys like that out there.

[Dodecahedron]

 

It is a well know fact that the AL has a DH to waste valuable money to benefit the NL which spends it on pitching and wins championships.

 

Few teams in the AL use the DH spot as it was intended, as a spot for a dedicated power hitter. If anything, they use the extra spot to sign another reliever.

 

The problem with the AL is most of the capital is in the AL East. In the NL, the capital is more evenly distributed ... though one could argue this has changed in the past 5-8 years to benefit the NL West.

[DocBauer]

After weeks of reports and reflection, I've decided I still want Cruz for 2021. Even if his performance declines 10-15% in 2021 from what he's done the past 2 years, his bat would be invaluable for 2021 setting up the lineup.

 

I fully believe that 2021 will see all 3 of Kirilloff, Rooker and Larnach make various contributions and get themselves ready for 2022 and beyond.

 

HOWEVER, if Cruz isn't brought back, for whatever reason, I really hope they dip in the infield FA pool and bring in another solid player who can contribute. And there are some guys who really could. Not only do the Twins hedge their bets due to any infield injury situations, but it allows even more opportunity for Arraez, or Donaldson, to still be in the lineup with a "half day" off. Lineup flexibility isn't just in the field, but can also be in the batting order.