Front Page: Trade Deadline: What if the Twins Do Nothing?

[Cap'n Piranha]

 

While no moves being made would be frustrating for fans, I would imagine the players would be even more disappointed. How many former Twins (Hunter, Dozier, etc) have we heard grumble about the team never truly going for it? Even Berrios' recent tweet spoke to that. 

 

The FO needs to send a message to the current (and heck, future) Twins that this team is committed to trying to bring home a World Series. 

 

It's very easy for a player to demand trades when they know full well they will not be involved.  I imagine Berrios would feel very differently about the need to make a trade if he was the player in line to be shipped out.

[nicksaviking]

************Moderator Note:

 

Today will likely see emotions run high, but the moderators have already hid multiple posts that were too personal in nature. Please refrain from accusations or intimations about other posters mindsets and agendas and please refrain from bickering.

[In My La Z boy]

 

This thread is so typical of what Twins Daily can devolve into sometime.  None of us should confuse a lack of results with a lack of activity.  Isn't it possible that the teams with pitching to trade are less than motivated to consummate a deal, or perhaps aren't interested in position player prospects, or more specifically aren't interested in our position player prospects, or are deliberately maintaining demands they know to be outrageous in the hopes that a theoretically young(ish) and inexperienced(ish) Twins FO will crack under the pressue?

 

I'm sure we could have Syndergaard right now if we gave the Mets Buxton, Balazovic, and Graterol.  I'm sure Vazquez or Yates would be on their way if we gave up Kiriloff, Lewis, and Larnach.  But would either of those deals be smart?  No.

 

This is a team that is set up to be good for a long time--every member of our record-breaking offense except Schoop is under team control for next year, and for every reason to think there might be regression, there are reasons to hope for progression.  Our pitching staff will need work next year, but you don't need to fix next year's staff today--you have an entire offseason.

 

I hope this Front Office doesn't do something for the sake of doing something; there is a chance we're looking at a 5-7 year window of annual competitiveness.  Throwing that away to appease a bunch of fans who want to go all-in after the flop simply because they have a straight flush draw would be a shame.

I'd like a world series championship in 2019 vs a 5-7 year competitive window. There are no guarantees. No guarantee of a 2019 championship, and no guarantee of a 5-7 year competitive window. All you can ever know is now. And now - we have an offense to beat all offenses. 

[Doomtints]

 

One of the problems with the Twins organization is they have zero consistency in their approach.

 

They must be at least a little bit consistent because they are inherently predictable.

 

They are always so worried about doing too much that they never do enough.

[Steve Lein]

 

I don't get this part...

 

"it is important for Twins fans to stand by a team that has put themselves in this position."

 

If they opt to stand pat and not do anything to improve the obvious and glaring weaknesses of this team, why should we stand by this team and its front office? They are doing a disservice to everyone involved, including the 25 guys in that clubhouse, the coaches, and fans, if they don't make a move to improve this team.

 

That is such a cop out of a statement, really.

 

They also basically promised they'd make moves when the team proved they were good/the window was open.

 

Well, it's been pretty breezy in this house all year already...

 

(Edit: Not saying I'd abandon this team, heck no I wouldn't. But those statements amount to used-car salesman tactics if they don't do something. I'm sick of those types around sports here)

Edited July 31, 2019 by Steve Lein

[Doomtints]

 

None of us should confuse a lack of results with a lack of activity. 

 

If this is the argument, the conclusion is the front office can't get deals done and should be replaced.

 

The bullpen has been a problem all year, and longer, and the Twins backed themselves into a corner by cutting half the bullpen in the past 6-8 weeks. You could almost call this self-sabotage -- they announced to the league they are desperate for bullpen arms and everybody raised their prices.

[drivlikejehu]

 

If this is the argument, the conclusion is the front office can't get deals done and should be replaced.

 

The bullpen has been a problem all year, and longer, and the Twins backed themselves into a corner by cutting half the bullpen in the past 6-8 weeks. You could almost call this self-sabotage -- they announced to the league they are desperate for bullpen arms and everybody raised their prices.

 

Serious question - if you magically owned the Twins as of today, would you fire Falvey and Levine?

[gunnarthor]

 

Serious question - if you magically owned the Twins as of today, would you fire Falvey and Levine?

Maybe one, not the other?

[Tomj14]

IMO, if they do nothing they better not lose any of their prospects because there isn't room on the 40.

You know kind of like they have with the minor league relief pitchers.

[SwainZag]

 

If this is the argument, the conclusion is the front office can't get deals done and should be replaced.

 

The bullpen has been a problem all year, and longer, and the Twins backed themselves into a corner by cutting half the bullpen in the past 6-8 weeks. You could almost call this self-sabotage -- they announced to the league they are desperate for bullpen arms and everybody raised their prices.

 

The front office in their 3rd season has the Twins 24 games above .500 and on pace to win 98 games.  Two seasons ago when the Twins snuck into a WC game, a lot of people clamored and yelled when they didn't add, didn't trade pieces likes Kepler, Polanco, etc to bring in talent.  It looks like not adding and trading young talent paid off.  They added Perez, Cron, Gonzalez, Cruz in the offseason which all have paid big dividends.  But now if they don't bring in any more players today, you have come to the conclusion that they can't get it done and should be replaced.  I get being frustrated, but the overreactions around here sometimes are unbelievable. 

[SpicyGarvSauce]

 

If this is the argument, the conclusion is the front office can't get deals done and should be replaced.

 

The bullpen has been a problem all year, and longer, and the Twins backed themselves into a corner by cutting half the bullpen in the past 6-8 weeks. You could almost call this self-sabotage -- they announced to the league they are desperate for bullpen arms and everybody raised their prices.

They failed to improve the bullpen during the winter, and up until this point, they have failed to improve the bullpen this season. They knew it was an issue and weakness of this team, and it has shown. So for about the last 9 months, it has been quite obvious what they needed to improve. They have yet to do so, besides the Romo trade.

[SpicyGarvSauce]

 

 

Serious question - if you magically owned the Twins as of today, would you fire Falvey and Levine?

 

Give me until 3:01 pm today to answer this.

[Tomj14]

 

Serious question - if you magically owned the Twins as of today, would you fire Falvey and Levine?

No I wouldn't fire them before the season is over, but if they somehow miss the playoffs or don't win the division because the relief core is not adequate and that is an obvious reason for not winning the division.

Then they are gone!

[Doomtints]

 

Serious question - if you magically owned the Twins as of today, would you fire Falvey and Levine?

 

No, but I also would not make the argument that activity > results.

[strumdatjaguar]

I'd have a bigger problem if the Twins "do something" and make a stupid trade than seeing them "do nothing more".    This team can compete with the other good teams this year.  Just as important is setting the team up for continued success for the next 4-5 years.  It would be nice to be like the Rays, only with better attendance, a better ballpark and retaining our best players long-term.

[Doomtints]

 

 

The front office in their 3rd season has the Twins 24 games above .500 and on pace to win 98 games.  Two seasons ago when the Twins snuck into a WC game, a lot of people clamored and yelled when they didn't add, didn't trade pieces likes Kepler, Polanco, etc to bring in talent.  It looks like not adding and trading young talent paid off.  They added Perez, Cron, Gonzalez, Cruz in the offseason which all have paid big dividends.  But now if they don't bring in any more players today, you have come to the conclusion that they can't get it done and should be replaced.  I get being frustrated, but the overreactions around here sometimes are unbelievable. 

 

I did not say they should be replaced. I said that if the argument is activity > results, then they should be replaced. I myself did not make that argument.

[dex8425]

 

If this is the argument, the conclusion is the front office can't get deals done and should be replaced.

 

The bullpen has been a problem all year, and longer, and the Twins backed themselves into a corner by cutting half the bullpen in the past 6-8 weeks. You could almost call this self-sabotage -- they announced to the league they are desperate for bullpen arms and everybody raised their prices.

 

We're not creating the market all by ourselves here because there are so many other buyers who need pitching too. The Cubs, Yankees, Astros, Dodgers, Red Sox, all need pitching help as well. At least we've added somebody. Yankees rotation is bad. Think about how scary good they'd be if they'd added Stroman, Thor, or Ray. 

[Cap'n Piranha]

 

If this is the argument, the conclusion is the front office can't get deals done and should be replaced.

 

The bullpen has been a problem all year, and longer, and the Twins backed themselves into a corner by cutting half the bullpen in the past 6-8 weeks. You could almost call this self-sabotage -- they announced to the league they are desperate for bullpen arms and everybody raised their prices.

 

Faulty logic.  You are assuming the only reason a deal doesn't get done is because Falvine is incapable.  I guarantee you Falvine is more than capable of offering the Mets Buxton, Berrios, Kepler, and Lewis for Syndergaard; a deal which would be hastily and enthusiastically agreed to by the Mets.

 

There are a lot of people on this site who seem to think we're living in a video game world with the trade approval setting off, and therefore the only impediment to a deal is lethargy.

[Cap'n Piranha]

 

I'd like a world series championship in 2019 vs a 5-7 year competitive window. There are no guarantees. No guarantee of a 2019 championship, and no guarantee of a 5-7 year competitive window. All you can ever know is now. And now - we have an offense to beat all offenses. 

 

At this point in time, the Twins have a 7.7% chance of winning the world series.  Even if a series of trades today doubled those odds, I think with our offense set up for years to come, and a FO that seems capable of astute moves, and a top 5ish farm system, I think the odds of a competitive window are greater, and you're far more likely to take a big pot if you can play more big hands.

[Cap'n Piranha]

 

No, but I also would not make the argument that activity > results.

 

No one is saying Activity > Results.  I (and others) are saying No Results <> No Activity.

[bighat]

 

I'll be pretty angry if nothing happens.

 

I'll be disappointed, and let down. Not really ANGRY but yeah, I'll have the blues.

[Ncgo4]

I’ll not be surprised w/no further trades. Neither will I be disappointed. These last minute moves are a crap shoot and we could make a big mistake for a short run hope. Next year is when I expected us to compete.

[rdehring]

 

Serious question - if you magically owned the Twins as of today, would you fire Falvey and Levine?

No. If I magically owned the Twins today, I would sell the team and take the $2+ billion and go live on that magical island!

[SpicyGarvSauce]

 

I’ll not be surprised w/no further trades. Neither will I be disappointed. These last minute moves are a crap shoot and we could make a big mistake for a short run hope. Next year is when I expected us to compete.

 

With so many doubts surrounding the pitching staff in 2020? I like the optimism!

[Doomtints]

 

No one is saying Activity > Results.  I (and others) are saying No Results <> No Activity.

 

You said specifically that the FO should get points for trying. We are talking about the equivalent of C-level guys here, not teenagers asking for dates to the prom. I think everyone assumes they are trying, but results matter.

Edited July 31, 2019 by Doomtints

[USAFChief]

I completely disagree with the idea that a lack of results doesnt mean a lack of activity. It means EXACTLY that.

 

The grass doesnt get mowed because you talked about it all day.

 

A wise old man once said there is no try. There is only do, or not do.

[Doomtints]

 

I’ll not be surprised w/no further trades. Neither will I be disappointed. These last minute moves are a crap shoot and we could make a big mistake for a short run hope. Next year is when I expected us to compete.

 

Take a look at the standings. They are competing now! Go out to a game and have some fun!

[SpicyGarvSauce]

 

Take a look at the standings. They are competing now! Go out to a game and have some fun!

Right. The window is open. The opportunity is now. Take advantage of guys like Cruz, Kepler, Sano, Buxton, Garver, etc. all having good to great seasons. You aren't guaranteed this.

[Cap'n Piranha]

 

You said specifically that the FO should get points for trying. We are talking about the equivalent of C-level guys here, not teenagers asking for dates to the prom. I think everyone assumes they are trying, but results matter.

 

I would love to know where I said that.  I have offered only rationales for why the FO has not completed any deals bigger than Romo, while stating that lack of results is not the same as lack of activity.

 

If you read some of the posts on here stating the level of irritation posters would have if no trade is completed, it's quite clear that a number of people think they're not really trying.

[Cap'n Piranha]

 

I completely disagree with the idea that a lack of results doesnt mean a lack of activity. It means EXACTLY that.

The grass doesnt get mowed because you talked about it all day.

A wise old man once said there is no try. There is only do, or not do.

 

So if you go out to mow your yard, but the mower won't start because of a faulty spark plug, and once you've replaced the spark plug, its started to rain, and once it stops raining you have to go pick up your kid at school, and once you've picked up your kid you get rear-ended on the drive back home, and once you've finished dealing with the police and insurance the sun has gone down, leaving the yard unmowed, it's because you didn't try?

 

Yoda, by his own definition, is also a failure.  He did not prevent the rise of the Sith, leading to the creation of the empire, and the death of millions, if not billions of sentient beings.