Could Sano Be a Trade Chip?

[mudcat14]

Just wondering if the large strides forward made this season by guys like Polanco, Garver, Kepler & Buxton, might make Miguel Sano less of a factor in the Twins future plans.  Of course the power potential is obviously still there, but I can't help but wonder if patience is starting to wear a little thin while waiting for him to put it together.  I would still expect him to have quite a bit of trade value and wonder if that might not be an avenue that the Twins pursue.  I'm confident Marwin, Adrianza & Arraez could fill his shoes in the short-term, and in all honesty no one knows what his role could even be in the long-term.  I'm leaning towards believing is best value to this club is as trade capitol.

 

Thoughts?

[MoyBoy74]

I would just hate to see him flourish with another organization, if we did trade him.

[bighat]

I think Jorge Soler (currently 27 years old) might be a good comparison. Cubs gave him up for Wade Davis at the deadline a couple years ago. I think Soler might have more upside right now.

 

I'd like to think the same...but honestly if you're a GM on the other side, do you want Sano? I think his stock has dropped dramatically and the Twins would have a hard time trading him at his lowest value.

 

I do think the team is better without him, but he still does have value in MN and it might be hard to trade away a guy who is just 2 years removed from an All-Star berth at a young age for a rental middle reliever.

[jkcarew]

I agree that the Twins appear to be showing signs that they can be a good offensive team in the future without Sano or without Sano being a star. Having said that, I think you'd want a better long-term answer/option at 3rd before you'd trade Sano...and I don't think that's Gonzalez, or Adrianza, or Arraez. Sano can do a whole lot of striking out and still be more valuable offensively that Arraez...and it's not like Arraez is a threat on the bases. Of course, they could trade Sano in the off-season for a 3rd-base prospect. I suppose that's possible. In any regard, a big bat at 3rd base still seems to be a weakness in the system. (And fwiw, they continue to play Blankenhorn very little at 3rd.)

[jimbo92107]

Sure as the blessing of Big Papi cured the curse of the Bambino, Boston would gladly take Sano off our hands.  Come hither, you big, handsome man, they'll say. We will never tell you to stop eating burritos, we will never make you run sprints. Just hit a mere forty baseballs per year over that green wall, and all of Boston will love you. And Sano will jump for joy, hit their homers easily, and by 2021 he will weigh 350 pounds. 

[SpicyGarvSauce]

Sure - but the price has to be right. Twins cannot just give Sano away.

[scottz]

No. He's valuable, and I believe he'll be an All-Star once again. He's not a free agent until 2022. Strikeouts aside, he's a fearsome bat.

[jorgenswest]

The AL home run leader had little value and the Mariners picked up a significant part of the contract.

 

He won’t appeal to rebuilding teams because he will be in arbitration. He might appeal to a team like the Rays but my guess is the return will be a flyer on an A ball player.

 

He has more value to this 2019 team.

[MNT1996]

The guy has 1 terrible night and fans already clamoring to trade him. All you have to do is look at Sano's 2017 season to see his potential. Last year was a bad year for him yes and this year has been up and down after getting off the IR, but cmon we know the guy has serious potential and many times it doesn't come to fruition until a player has 6, 7 or more years of experience under their belt. Good example: David Ortiz. Took him a good 7 season to finally achieve his true potential and he just got better from there. 

[DiscGolfer]

If Sano is the last chip needed to make a big trade happen then pull the trigger but the deal has to be right.  I think you have to see what he can do for the rest of the year then trade him in the off season if need be.  Some people already wanted to cut loose players like Castro, Gonzalez, Adrianza and others when they were slumping just a bit.  Give him time to see what you actually have in him.  Yes he does strike out a lot but it's not like his OPS is sitting at .500

[MNT1996]

 

If Sano is the last chip needed to make a big trade happen then pull the trigger but the deal has to be right.  I think you have to see what he can do for the rest of the year then trade him in the off season if need be.  Some people already wanted to cut loose players like Castro, Gonzalez, Adrianza and others when they were slumping just a bit.  Give him time to see what you actually have in him.  Yes he does strike out a lot but it's not like his OPS is sitting at .500

 

Trade a 26 year old with tremendous potential for what? A couple rental pitchers? I just don't get the thought process behind trading Sano. Sano is a threat you have in the lineup for many games over the course of a season. 

[jorgenswest]

He had a game saving play at 3B in the top of the 10th last night. With that play the night was far from terrible.

[DiscGolfer]

 

Trade a 26 year old with tremendous potential for what? A couple rental pitchers? I just don't get the thought process behind trading Sano. Sano is a threat you have in the lineup for many games over the course of a season. 

No, definitely not for rentals.  I don't think he should be traded but if he is the last piece that a team wants for a blockbuster type deal then it should be considered.

[jud6312]

I'd say yes if there was any sort of viable short-term or long-term plan to replace him.

 

I have zero interest in watching a rotation of Marwin, Adrianza, Arraez, and the La Tortuga man the position on a daily basis. Are we ready to hand the reigns to Drew Maggi? Bechtold? Move Javier over? Move Blankenhorn back?

 

If they traded Sano for a valuable arm, they'd end up having to trade a valuable arm for another third baseman either this season or in the off-season.

 

It seems counterproductive. 

 

 

[mudcat14]

The Twins have been looking for an everyday third baseman since Corey Koskie left.  Trevor Plouffe was as close as they've come and he is out of the game at age 32.  Gonzales will be as good or better than we've had, similar to what we refused to commit to in Eduardo Escobar.  

 

Pittsburgh  was at one time enthralled enough with Sano to try and lie and cheat to get him to sign.  If he could be used to entice the Pirates into a Felipe Vasquez deal, I'd do it in a heartbeat.

[Cap'n Piranha]

While we're at it, let's trade Rosario too--he has a lower OBP and SLG, as well a grading out worse on defense and barely better on the basepaths.  In fact, Eddie only has .5 more WAR than Sano, despite nearly 3 times as many PA's.

 

The only 3B that's realistically available that I would exchange Sano for is Rendon.  If the Nats don't think they can/will sign him in the offseason, and Falvine is willing to put up the approximately 7 years and $140-$160M it will take to keep him here, then sure, pull the trigger.  Otherwise, let Sano hit 35 homers a year.

[lukeduke1980]

 

I have zero interest in watching a rotation of Marwin, Adrianza, Arraez, and the La Tortuga man the position on a daily basis. Are we ready to hand the reigns to Drew Maggi? Bechtold? Move Javier over? Move Blankenhorn back?

 

If they traded Sano for a valuable arm, they'd end up having to trade a valuable arm for another third baseman either this season or in the off-season.

 

It seems counterproductive. 

I thought Marwin was really good at 3B.  

[RatherBeGolfing]

 

The guy has 1 terrible night and fans already clamoring to trade him. All you have to do is look at Sano's 2017 season to see his potential. Last year was a bad year for him yes and this year has been up and down after getting off the IR, but cmon we know the guy has serious potential and many times it doesn't come to fruition until a player has 6, 7 or more years of experience under their belt. Good example: David Ortiz. Took him a good 7 season to finally achieve his true potential and he just got better from there. 

 

I'm not really for trading him since his value is about as low as it can be right now but it's a lot more than 1 terrible night that have people wanting to move on.

[MNT1996]

 

I'm not really for trading him since his value is about as low as it can be right now but it's a lot more than 1 terrible night that have people wanting to move on.

 

What is making people want to move on then? And move on to who? Who that the Twins have at 3rd base is more major league ready and as much of a power threat than Sano? I think Twins fans focus way to much on Sano's 2018 year. Most players in MLB history have had years that they want to forget and that they underachieved in. Just watch. If Sano has a couple good weeks you won't hear a peep of the people that wanted to trade him. It's fairweather fans at their finest. 

[MNSouthDak]

Great idea.  With the proviso that major league pitching is better than AAA pitching, and its a small sample size, but let's look at Sano's batting performance vs Astudillo's recent batting performance.  

 

Astudillo has had 38 at bats since he was sent down to Rochester.  Here are some stats for Astudillo's and Sano's last 38 at bats.  Sano's best days are behind him, and he is error prone.  If the Twins can get a good reliever, we should trade.  

 

Batting Average

 

Astudillo:  .525

Sano:   .225

 

OPS:  

 

Astudillo:  1.288

Sano:  .560

 

RBI:

 

Astudillo:  18

Sano:  2

 

Strike Outs:

 

Astudillo:  1

Sano: 18

 

[RatherBeGolfing]

 

What is making people want to move on then? And move on to who? Who that the Twins have at 3rd base is more major league ready and as much of a power threat than Sano? I think Twins fans focus way to much on Sano's 2018 year. Most players in MLB history have had years that they want to forget and that they underachieved in. Just watch. If Sano has a couple good weeks you won't hear a peep of the people that wanted to trade him. It's fairweather fans at their finest. 

 

Once again, I agree with you, I wouldn't move him right now because you would get a bucket of balls for him. There's little upside to making that move right now.

 

However, if you can't see why people would want to move on, you're being as ignorant as those fairweather fans you mentioned. 

[Minfidel]

You could say that the Twins don't need Sano's power in the lineup - this year. Next year, Schoop is likely gone, Cron has a team option (I think), and Cruz is another year older. You don't just go chucking young power hitters away like used Kleenex. Plus, now that he's struggling a bit, this might be when Sano is most "coachable" in terms of learning from Cruz. 

[wavedog]

 

You could say that the Twins don't need Sano's power in the lineup - this year. Next year, Schoop is likely gone, Cron has a team option (I think), and Cruz is another year older. You don't just go chucking young power hitters away like used Kleenex. Plus, now that he's struggling a bit, this might be when Sano is most "coachable" in terms of learning from Cruz. 

I agree, I want to give him more time this year to see if he can show improvement.  Some of the Power may be leaving or declining next year.  

 

For those on the Sano side that are mentioning his high OPS - Baseball reference breaks out splits into High Leverage, Medium Leverage and Low Leverage situations.  I pasted in their definition of Leverage at the bottom for reference below

 

https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/split.fcgi?id=sanomi01&year=2019&t=b

 

For Sano the breakout is:

High Leverage OPS:        .583

Medium Leverage OPS:   .824

Low Leverage OPS:        1.000 

 

I went and pulled Nelson Cruz's stats to see how his would compare - his results are more even

 

Cruz

High Leverage OPS:        .929

Medium Leverage OPS:   .982

Low Leverage OPS:         .887

 

I am hoping to see Sano's high leverage OPS improve over the remainder of this year hopefully with some coaching from staff and Cruz or watching Cruz or maybe just from a larger sample size.   His performance in those higher leverage situations so far this year is what is concerning at least some folks.   

  

Leverage Index
Within a game, there are plays that are more pivotal than others. We attempt to quantify these plays with a stat called leverage index (LI). LI looks at the possible changes in win probability in a given situation; situations where dramatic swings in win probability are possible (e.g. runner on second late in a tie game) have higher LIs than situations where there can be no large change in win probability (e.g. late innings of a 12-run blowout).

The stat is normalized so that on average the leverage is 1.00. In tense situations, the leverage is higher than 1.00 (up to about 10) and in low-tension situations, the leverage is between 0 and 1.0.

[twinssporto]

 

I would just hate to see him flourish with another organization, if we did trade him.

Gotta let that go...It's like deciding to break up with your girlfriend then feeling jealous when she starts dating someone else.

[raindog]

 

Just wondering if the large strides forward made this season by guys like Polanco, Garver, Kepler & Buxton, might make Miguel Sano less of a factor in the Twins future plans.  Of course the power potential is obviously still there, but I can't help but wonder if patience is starting to wear a little thin while waiting for him to put it together.  I would still expect him to have quite a bit of trade value and wonder if that might not be an avenue that the Twins pursue.  I'm confident Marwin, Adrianza & Arraez could fill his shoes in the short-term, and in all honesty no one knows what his role could even be in the long-term.  I'm leaning towards believing is best value to this club is as trade capitol.

 

Thoughts?

I got news for ya, we're watching him put it together. He has a OPS+ of 124. Fangraphs has him as a positive on defense.

 

Enjoy it. Quit trying to trade him.

[drivlikejehu]

 

I agree, I want to give him more time this year to see if he can show improvement.  Some of the Power may be leaving or declining next year.  

 

For those on the Sano side that are mentioning his high OPS - Baseball reference breaks out splits into High Leverage, Medium Leverage and Low Leverage situations.  I pasted in their definition of Leverage at the bottom for reference below

 

https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/split.fcgi?id=sanomi01&year=2019&t=b

 

For Sano the breakout is:

High Leverage OPS:        .583

Medium Leverage OPS:   .824

Low Leverage OPS:        1.000 

 

Pretty convenient (and statistically indefensible) that you mention his 102 PAs in 2019, but ignored his career stats. For his career, Sano is consistent regardless of leverage. 

 

The only positive to all the Sano-bashing on here is that it breaks the monotony of bullpen-bashing.

[ScooterDance]

He might be our 9th best option when everyone is healthy.

 

This is what we’re choosing to complain about? Our 9th best hitter who strikes out a lot but still has a 124 ops+?

 

G’damn this fan base is impossible to please.

[howeda7]

He's not at his lowest value. That was last year. He's at least proven he's healthy, weighs less than 2 tons, can still play a passable 3B and put a charge in one once in a while. I'd trade him for any reasonable value.

[GCTF]

If Sano were a chip, would he eat himself?

[Vanimal46]

If Sano were a chip, would he eat himself?

Depends if there is dip around, TBH...

 

Now, if he were a donut? There's REAL evidence of that happening!