Who's on Third? ... and other infield questions

[DocBauer]

I think he'll be fine in the field if he takes off some more poundage. It might sound silly, but "fat" guys tend to be worse in the field because of their reduced movement...they also tend to get injured more frequently. I'm sure there are exceptions...

 

Does anyone know what they are doing with Sano during this off season to avoid a repeat of last spring? I haven't heard....

Your comment isn't silly at all. Sano is a large individual with nice athletic ability. He will always be a large man. And to me, there is no question his surgery messed up any sort of preparation for 2018. I'm sure off the field distractions didn't help.

 

But he seemed dedicated to his re-set and continuing it over this next off season. Let's hope that's true. He made some comment about wanting to get down to around 245-250lbs to begin 2019. To which Molitor quipped; "was he speaking Spanish or English when he said that?" Funny! But it bears look at seriously. His frame, his build, there is a big difference, (pun slightly intended), for Sano to play at 260-265 rather than the 280+ he was in 2018.

 

I have no information how his off season is going or what the Twins are doing. But considering how important he is, and his own future, I sure hope someone he trusts is working with him.

[Riverbrian]

 

Another great post, especially because I agree with you! Lol

Guys have slumps. Sometimes they need time, or adjustment, to work through them. But you also simply can't be stubborn enough to ride a guy just because you HOPE he figures it out!

I am going to take some issue with your opinion on needing 4 infielders, however. Good, bad, right or wrong, it's pretty damn hard to just re-build an entire infield in one off season. Along with being a bit unrealistic. You absolutely need options, versatility and backup plans. But if you are carrying 6-7 infielders, adding 4 would be a pretty tough mountain to climb.

So what do we have? Regardless of final position outcome, we have the talented Polanco. We also have Sano, who isn't going anywhere, and shouldn't at this point. Then we have Austin, who shows some promise, and could be a very dangerous lower third of the order hitter. Personally, I like Adrianza. I like his glove, and versatility, with a decent bat for a utility player. I like to him to play regular, but not too often. In that niche, he seems to perform well.

Assuming we can't just pull rabbits out of the hat, what needs to be settled is either a starter at 2B or SS. Decide for sure which way makes the most sense for 2019/2020 and get that guy!

At that point, if not before, I would sign or trade for the best "multi-position" guy I could get. Can he play up the middle? Is he a 1B/3B? Can he also do a credible job in the OF? Gonzalez would be a priority for me were I in charge. I'd pay him starter money, $8-10M per on a 3-4yr deal because he brings so much to my club. But is he obtainable? I feel he will have a few suitors. If he's not, find the next best fit, versatile player. (Still in depression mode about Escobar, to be honest).

That's TWO.

Next, I would scour every available AAA/AAAA infielder and sign the very best two I could for depth, promising opportunity. Something I feel the FO botched last season. (Losing Goodrum comes to mind).

Absolutely right about Astudillo! Will I get my very first TD warning points if I state that the way he was handled in 2018 was piss poor!? Signed as a catcher with positional flexibility, he was suddenly moved off catcher to play other spots when they marched a series of re-treads through that spot after Castro was done. Then, he gets a promotion to sit on the bench and make a few appearances anywhere BUT catcher. Somebody, finally, got their head screwed on straight and returned him behind the plate. And what did we get when he came up again? A decent looking catcher with positional flexibility who did what he bas entire milb career at EVERY level, barrel up and HIT!

I don't know good Astudillo can be. But it seems to me everyone previously has passed on him simply because he didn't fit some idea/ideal of what they wanted. And I don't know if he breaks 2019 with the club, or rides the Rochester shuttle some. But to me, at worst, he's my valuable and versatile 26th man. And if you sign that one, quality, everyday infielder, maybe Astudillo is your second utility player. I think it deserves consideration at least.

 

LOL... I mis-typed again. No idea why I typed 4. 

 

I meant 3... We need 3... 2 if the team believes in Adrianaza. 

 

We need a Corner Infield Bat and possible two middle infielders. 1 if the team believes in Adrianaza. 

 

Personally... I'd try to upgrade over Adrianaza. 

[Aerodeliria]

"It shouldn't have taken an act of congress to get Astudillo (for example) into the lineup in consideration of the horrible play we saw from multiple positions last year."

 

...and it shouldn't take one in 2019 either! Get that guy on the Twins roster again and use him!!

[Physics Guy]

Two IF, preferably Iglesias and Donaldson. Adrianna is a reasonably priced backup IF who doesn't suck with the bat. Polanco is Ok at SS, but I would like to see an upgrade on defense. Move him to 2B now since I don't see him there long term. Donaldson can be 1B/DH for 3 years and be a backup plan at 3B. I think Donaldson is more likely to stay healthy at 1B/DH and provide the additional big bat we need in our lineup.

[Doctor Wu]

Seems like the most glaring need is a second base. Murphy has a good bat, but from everything that I've read about him, he's pretty much a statue playing on the field. I know many on this board want a potent bat, but I'd really like a good glove at that position, at least for another year or two. So, we do keep Polanco at short or move him to second? And then do we get a slick fielder like Iglesias to play short, or keep Polanco there and get a new second baseman? i don't want Dozier back again, but that wouldn't be the worst scenario. I can't imagine he's going to get many lucrative offers in free agency.

[ChrisKnutson]

Honest question gang:

What is the best way to improve the keystone for 2019?

Almost everyone believes in Polanco, and his future, as an offensive player. But there is a big division between opinions as to whether he awful at SS, or barely adequate, VS, he's at least average and shows flashes of promise that indicate he will continue to get better, and be solid for at least the next couple of years until Lewis or Javier are ready.

While personal belief and choice for how to man 2B in 2019 is varied, it can't be argued that there is a plethora of available 2B available on the FA market to fill that position. And a number of them could really help spark the lineup. (You still have to make the smartest choice, of course).

There are far fewer options available at SS.

I love good defense and believe in it. But especially the way the game is being played now, with shifts and an emphasis on launch angles/power and seemingly acceptable high SO totals, are we moving away from defensive emphasis in the game?

2B or SS, for the next couple of seasons, considering both offense and defense, which way is the easiest/best way to improve the 2019 infield up the middle?

Well the FO said that both Sano and Polanco could be moved if the deal was right, obviously this could be said for anyone on the 40 man, but the fact that I heard Falvey answer a question specifically in this fashion about the infield on the radio shows that there “confidence” in Polanco and Sano as franchise cornerstones has faded a bit. Now I do believe they are much committed to Sano, but probably not strictly as a 3B. However when it comes to Polanco, and the middle infield in general, depending on how Lewis, Gordon, and Javier perform could directly have an effect on whether Polanco’s moved to 2nd, stays at SS, or even traded to another team (something like the Jean Segura trade). Another thing to keep in mind is that next years FA class will be filled with quality middle infielders like Jason Kipnis, Ben Zobrist, Didi Gregorius, Scooter Gennett, Xander Bogaerts, and Elvis Andrus; meaning that Polanco could be gone sooner rather than later.

[Doomtints]

The consensus on Sano is "He'll end up at first someday."

 

What if that "someday" happens earlier than we expect? In other words, what if the Twins lock up 1B wtih another player, and Sano gets injured at 3rd (again)?

 

It will take him time to adjust fully to 1B and play well there. It's better to do this while he is younger.

 

Or, better yet, just put the guy at DH and get it over with. This maximizes the way the team can build, because it keeps dollars off of the DH position while putting someone there who can hit at DH more than adequately. Sano's value is not defense.

[howieramone2]

 

Two IF, preferably Iglesias and Donaldson. Adrianna is a reasonably priced backup IF who doesn't suck with the bat. Polanco is Ok at SS, but I would like to see an upgrade on defense. Move him to 2B now since I don't see him there long term. Donaldson can be 1B/DH for 3 years and be a backup plan at 3B. I think Donaldson is more likely to stay healthy at 1B/DH and provide the additional big bat we need in our lineup.

They are not going to block Lewis by giving Iglesias a long term contract. He's solid, but not a difference maker. Polanco will be more than adequate until Lewis is ready.

[Richie the Rally Goat]

They are not going to block Lewis by giving Iglesias a long term contract. He's solid, but not a difference maker. Polanco will be more than adequate until Lewis is ready.

Lewis is entirely irrelevant. It’s pretty optimistic to commit to Polanco at SS for 3 years to bank on a high school SS drafted in 2017.

 

Gordon with his MLB pedigree was supposed to be a sure thing, drafted in 14, and will prolly debut in 19, but would be foolish to depend on him.

 

I have more faith in Lewis, but not for 20, and prolly just a cup of coffe in 21.

 

They could sign Manny Machado this offseason and it isn’t going to impact plans for Lewis in ‘21/‘22.

[Mr. Brooks]

Lewis is entirely irrelevant. It’s pretty optimistic to commit to Polanco at SS for 3 years to bank on a high school SS drafted in 2017.

 

Gordon with his MLB pedigree was supposed to be a sure thing, drafted in 14, and will prolly debut in 19, but would be foolish to depend on him.

 

I have more faith in Lewis, but not for 20, and prolly just a cup of coffe in 21.

 

They could sign Manny Machado this offseason and it isn’t going to impact plans for Lewis in ‘21/‘22.

IMO, something has gone horribly wrong if Lewis only gets a cup of coffee in 2021.

In fact, I think something has gone horribly wrong if he only gets a cup of coffee in 2020.

[Richie the Rally Goat]

IMO, something has gone horribly wrong if Lewis only gets a cup of coffee in 2021.

In fact, I think something has gone horribly wrong if he only gets a cup of coffee in 2020.

he was drafted from high school only a year ago. He’s in high A, a huge jump from High a to double, a big jump to triple A, and another huge jump to the bigs.

 

Every step along the way, another learning curve and more challenges than we as fans can understand.

 

That’s not horribly wrong, it’s just that development is a non-linear progression. Can’t mark it on your calendar even in pencil

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

he was drafted from high school only a year ago. He’s in high A, a huge jump from High a to double, a big jump to triple A, and another huge jump to the bigs.

Every step along the way, another learning curve and more challenges than we as fans can understand.

That’s not horribly wrong, it’s just that development is a non-linear progression. Can’t mark it on your calendar even in pencil

Lewis compares very well with Correa and Lindor — there was a thread last summer. That puts Lewis’s timeline at about early to mid 2020, with immediate production. At shortstop.

[USAFChief]

Lewis compares very well with Correa and Lindor — there was a thread last summer. That puts Lewis’s timeline at about early to mid 2020, with immediate production. At shortstop.

Great. Then we move Machado to third.

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

Great. Then we move Machado to third.

Umm, ok

[Major League Ready]

Opinions on CJ Cron who was DFAed by the Rays?

 

123 OPS+ last year / 2 years of control and we could cut him next year if better option are present.

[DocBauer]

he was drafted from high school only a year ago. He’s in high A, a huge jump from High a to double, a big jump to triple A, and another huge jump to the bigs.

Every step along the way, another learning curve and more challenges than we as fans can understand.

That’s not horribly wrong, it’s just that development is a non-linear progression. Can’t mark it on your calendar even in pencil

I have all the faith in the world he will stick at SS from what we have all read, and the few glimpses I've seen of him in ST games and hilights. He has the athleticism, range and arm for the position. There have been reports his arm angle may be a little high for throws across the diamond. That can be worked on. He's still new to SS after never playing the spot full time until his senior year in HS. (Who on earth played there before him, j still wonder).

 

He should, more than likely, spend about half of 2019 in AA. That's a very fast rise! And with a good off season, ST, and hot start in high A, perhaps he is promoted before mid season.

[DocBauer]

Opinions on CJ Cron who was DFAed by the Rays?

 

123 OPS+ last year / 2 years of control and we could cut him next year if better option are present.

I'm interested, even though he isn't the proven player Santana or Goldschmidt are. But I'm interested. Especially if he was acquired in the "cheap" in order for another big OF bat and additions to the pen. His career numbers are solid, but not great, until his career year last season. To be fair, 2018 was the first year he's had over 400 AB. Baldelli is obviously familiar with him. Really wondering why the Rays let him go.

 

I am also interested in Derek Dietrich from Miami. It's one thing to wish on a Marwin Gonzalez signing, vs being able to actually sign him, especially when it seems there may be a lot of suitors. Dietrich would be "Gonzalez-lite" in his bat not being quite as good and lack of SS ability. But he could be a really nice backup/role player with versatility.

[ChrisKnutson]

I'm interested, even though he isn't the proven player Santana or Goldschmidt are. But I'm interested. Especially if he was acquired in the "cheap" in order for another big OF bat and additions to the pen. His career numbers are solid, but not great, until his career year last season. To be fair, 2018 was the first year he's had over 400 AB. Baldelli is obviously familiar with him. Really wondering why the Rays let him go.

I am also interested in Derek Dietrich from Miami. It's one thing to wish on a Marwin Gonzalez signing, vs being able to actually sign him, especially when it seems there may be a lot of suitors. Dietrich would be "Gonzalez-lite" in his bat not being quite as good and lack of SS ability. But he could be a really nice backup/role player with versatility.

Definitely on the Dietrich train, and I’m big fan Harrison too. Imagine if we signed both, then and we wouldn’t even need Adrianza, we could just trade him, drop him, whatever.

[Major League Ready]

 

I'm interested, even though he isn't the proven player Santana or Goldschmidt are. But I'm interested. Especially if he was acquired in the "cheap" in order for another big OF bat and additions to the pen. His career numbers are solid, but not great, until his career year last season. To be fair, 2018 was the first year he's had over 400 AB. Baldelli is obviously familiar with him. Really wondering why the Rays let him go.

I am also interested in Derek Dietrich from Miami. It's one thing to wish on a Marwin Gonzalez signing, vs being able to actually sign him, especially when it seems there may be a lot of suitors. Dietrich would be "Gonzalez-lite" in his bat not being quite as good and lack of SS ability. But he could be a really nice backup/role player with versatility.

 

Tampa Bay DFAing him is a little curious. By that I mean it does not suggest they are confident he will repeat or improve on 2018. He is 2nd year arbitration player projected at 5.2M. Not bad for 2.1 WAR. He had a little over 1500 ABs going into 2018 and it's the first time he has had 500ABs in a season. The remaining 2 years are his age 29-30 seasons. Seems like a good value. The goods news is that we have Baldelli to advise the FO. He would be a nice acquisition if he maintains last year's productivity and a steal if he continues to progress during these prime years.

 

Santana is more proven but Cron was slightly better last year. Cron is also right in his prime where Santana will be 33 next year. Power ages well so perhaps not an issue but perhaps a consideration. 

[jorgenswest]

Dietrich and Harrison are poor fits for utility.

 

Neither can replace Adrianza. They don’t play SS. Sign them to start at 2B or 3B if you feel they are the best option.

 

Neither can take one of the 3 guaranteed spots on the bench without the ability to play SS unless they are the fourth OF.

 

That fourth bench spot needs to go to a player with options that can be shuttled out when a 13th pitcher is needed.

 

Should they acquire Dietrich as the starting 2B or fourth OF?

[Vanimal46]

Sorry, I'm going to have a sour taste in my mouth from Tampa 1B coming off career seasons... Thanks Logan Morrison!

[Lonestar]

 

Sorry, I'm going to have a sour taste in my mouth from Tampa 1B coming off career seasons... Thanks Logan Morrison!

n =  1 (with a left hip impingement requiring surgery)

[caninatl04]

Honest question gang:

 

What is the best way to improve the keystone for 2019?

 

2B or SS, for the next couple of seasons, considering both offense and defense, which way is the easiest/best way to improve the 2019 infield up the middle?

Sign FA Iglesias. +2 WAR due to glove only. Improves defense at 3B (covers up for Sano's lack of range), SS and allows Polanco to shift to 2B.

 

Well, you asked...

[Major League Ready]

 

Sorry, I'm going to have a sour taste in my mouth from Tampa 1B coming off career seasons... Thanks Logan Morrison!

 

Who could blame you?

[Riverbrian]

 

Tampa Bay DFAing him is a little curious. By that I mean it does not suggest they are confident he will repeat or improve on 2018. He is 2nd year arbitration player projected at 5.2M. Not bad for 2.1 WAR. He had a little over 1500 ABs going into 2018 and it's the first time he has had 500ABs in a season. The remaining 2 years are his age 29-30 seasons. Seems like a good value. The goods news is that we have Baldelli to advise the FO. He would be a nice acquisition if he maintains last year's productivity and a steal if he continues to progress during these prime years.

 

Santana is more proven but Cron was slightly better last year. Cron is also right in his prime where Santana will be 33 next year. Power ages well so perhaps not an issue but perhaps a consideration. 

 

The Rays did the same thing last year with Corey Dickerson. Bloom and the Rays have a unique way of doing things compared with the other 29 teams. 

 

I can only guess but if I had to guess, it would be that the Rays are working something value related. 

 

Cron has 4 years plus of MLB Service time and will cost around 5M through arbitration and he can only play 1B and is really primarily a DH. They got that same guy with Choi on the roster for the minimum. 

 

They will probably have to carry 13 pitchers because of how they utilize their pitching staff. This leaves 12 roster spots and they can't absorb both identical type players in Cron and Choi. So... the more expensive player is out. 

 

They also have Jake Bauers to play at 1B who can also play OF along with Matt Duffy and Daniel Robertson who can play 1B. 

 

They recently acquired Zunino who kind of replaces the style hitter that Cron was to begin with. 

 

They probably hit the phone lines trying to make a deal for Cron and found that less teams are willing to take a one dimensional player these days and decided to just DFA him which may speed up that process if it was ever going to happen. Which it probably won't. 

 

The Twins hired a manager from the Rays organization. The Twins will also probably need 13 roster spots for pitching if they are going read from the Rays playbook. The Twins already have a Ji-Man Choi in Tyler Austin. 

 

If Tyler Austin can't play OF... He will probably be gone as soon as he becomes more expensive than Rooker or Larnach or the next Choi type player in 2020.  

 

Basically, the Rays have figured out that Morrison and Cron type production isn't that special anymore and these type of players are piling up behind the starters and they are bravely moving forward with it. 

 

That's my guess... If true... We won't be the team who signs Cron. 

 

 

[Mr. Brooks]

he was drafted from high school only a year ago. He’s in high A, a huge jump from High a to double, a big jump to triple A, and another huge jump to the bigs.

 

Every step along the way, another learning curve and more challenges than we as fans can understand.

 

That’s not horribly wrong, it’s just that development is a non-linear progression. Can’t mark it on your calendar even in pencil

Not every draft pick is the same, not every prospect is the same. Lewis is different. IMO, something has gone horribly wrong if he isn't up by the ASB in 2020, I'm sticking to that.

[Doctor Wu]

 

The Rays did the same thing last year with Corey Dickerson. Bloom and the Rays have a unique way of doing things compared with the other 29 teams.

You are right; the Rays do indeed have a unique way of handling their team and juggling their roster. Somehow they ended up winning 90 games last year with an odd assortment of players. Of course Snell shined on the mound, but guys like Cron had very good years also. And yeah, getting rid of Dickerson was another puzzling move the previous off-season, coming off a strong year, and then to see him have an arguably even better year with the Pirates. But back to Cron ... I don't know. I also have these horrible Logan Morrison jitters that won't go away.

[Riverbrian]

 

You are right; the Rays do indeed have a unique way of handling their team and juggling their roster. Somehow they ended up winning 90 games last year with an odd assortment of players. Of course Snell shined on the mound, but guys like Cron had very good years also. And yeah, getting rid of Dickerson was another puzzling move the previous off-season, coming off a strong year, and then to see him have an arguably even better year with the Pirates. But back to Cron ... I don't know. I also have these horrible Logan Morrison jitters that won't go away.

 

Last year we had Kennys Vargas for the minimum price. They made the decision that Logan Morrison was better and spent 6M. I was OK with that. 

 

This year we have Austin for the Minimum price and CJ Cron will cost them 5M. 

 

I'm ok with it if they think Cron is better but if he isn't... they better be able to get away from Cron and not have to play him everyday. 

 

This is also a big reason why I remain absolutely disappointed that Austin did not get a chance to audition in the OF in September. 

 

 

[Squirrel]

Great. Then we move Machado to third.

Exactly. I’m not sure why people are so set on Polanco at SS. If I could ‘heart’ this, I would.

[diehardtwinsfan]

 

Last year we had Kennys Vargas for the minimum price. They made the decision that Logan Morrison was better and spent 6M. I was OK with that. 

 

This year we have Austin for the Minimum price and CJ Cron will cost them 5M. 

 

I'm ok with it if they think Cron is better but if he isn't... they better be able to get away from Cron and not have to play him everyday. 

 

This is also a big reason why I remain absolutely disappointed that Austin did not get a chance to audition in the OF in September. 

 

Are you sure Cron costs 5M? He's a FA. He will sign for what he can get. I don't believe there's an arb requirement in there, is it? 

 

I don't mind a pickup like that. We will need 1B/DH help this season and probably next. I'd rather go bigger, but this isn't a bad move for a guy that could have some upside yet.