Twins tried to extend Rosario, Kepler, Berrios and maybe Buxton

[gunnarthor]

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2018/04/twins-pursued-offseason-extensions-with-multiple-young-players.html

 

The article says that all the players turned down the Twins offers.

[diehardtwinsfan]

They are all betting on themselves. Not bad in some of their cases. Another year or improvement would allow for most of them to get better deals then what they go before. I don't like that as a fan, but I can see their logic as a player.

[Mike Sixel]

I'm also betting they low balled them, like with Darvish. Each of them has real money already, and each can be much better than they were last year. I'm not surprised they all said no. 

[jimmer]

I would have been shocked if any of them said yes. Especially Buxton. I expect a very good year from him and his price tag will go way up. All of them should get better this year and make the offers bigger.

 

But I'm also not of the belief we keep them all either.

[jorgenswest]

Like any negotiation both parties have to be interested. It has to be a pretty narrow window if any at all to find an agreement with Berrios or Buxton. They have such high ceilings to bet on.

 

Both sides would be wise to negotiate and maybe something will happen. If by low ball offer it is meant to imply that the offer shut the door and upset the player, I hope that we don’t make that assumption without back up.

 

If it simply means the Twins opened at a spot below where an eventual deal might be made then that is a normal part of negotiations and not a low ball in my mind.

[gunnarthor]

 

I'm also betting they low balled them, like with Darvish. Each of them has real money already, and each can be much better than they were last year. I'm not surprised they all said no. 

+1000

[Blackjack]

But whatever the offers were, it would have offered them lifetime security.

[gunnarthor]

 

But whatever the offers were, it would have offered them lifetime security.

Barring a major injury, they all have lifetime security already. Kepler will be a super two so he'll get to arbitration a year early. So even without a contract and even if he's just a 95 OPS+ guy going forward, he'll make several million. And as we saw last year, guys in arbitration can win over 20m in their last year. So I don't think it's wrong for any of these guys to see how Harper and Machado reset the market before making longterm plans. 

[Mike Sixel]

 

But whatever the offers were, it would have offered them lifetime security.

 

Not sure how that's really relevant to if they should have said yes.

 

Heck, 3MM total might be enough to set them up for life, they shouldn't accept that.

[howieramone2]

 

I'm also betting they low balled them, like with Darvish. Each of them has real money already, and each can be much better than they were last year. I'm not surprised they all said no. 

Darvish accepted one of the worst contracts in all of baseball. Coming in second is going to be one of the all time best decisions the franchise has ever made.

[Mike Sixel]

 

Darvish accepted one of the worst contracts in all of baseball. Coming in second is going to be one of the all time best decisions the franchise has ever made.

And that has what to do with my point? Nothing, actually.

[70charger]

 

I'm also betting they low balled them, like with Darvish. Each of them has real money already, and each can be much better than they were last year. I'm not surprised they all said no. 

 

That's a very, very large jump based on literally zero information about the offers.

 

You may be right if and when more information comes out, but saying "I'm not surprised they all said no," sounds like a whole lot of unwarranted assumption to me.

[Mike Sixel]

 

That's a very, very large jump based on literally zero information about the offers.

 

You may be right if and when more information comes out, but saying "I'm not surprised they all said no," sounds like a whole lot of unwarranted assumption to me.

 

The not at all surprised part has to do with a lot of things, not just whatever they offered. Almost no one is signing these, that got any kind of bonus. So that's part. All of them have the potential to be much better than they were last year. so that's part. They are all pretty young, not like buying out a 27 year old. So that's part. I'm not surprised they didn't sign because of about 100 reasons. Never stated it was only about the money, but if the money was insane, they'd have signed, I'd guess.

 

I even said as much in my first post....

[prouster]

a whole lot of unwarranted assumption

What else is new around here?

[Rosterman]

Well, you add up potential arbitration salaries, the possible first year free agent salary, maybe an option, and you go from there. One side wants to be a bit lower because something might happen. The other side wants to be a tad higher in case they become a superstar. Unless you can back out at a certain point. Also, the number of years has to be the question. Was it for 2-3 with the Twins looking for an arbitration bargain? Was it for 3-5 with options? 

 

Can't wait to see what next off-season brings. Will it be like 2018 overall. Will players have to start being content with 1-2 year contracts and no more $100 million extensions (I guess thee will always be those for at least one guy per team).

 

I'm especially curious to see what a Joe Mauer could get, eitehr from the Twins or elsewhere. Really, will he take a cut to $10 million (or less). Will he average around $15 million, like the Ortiz contract that keep on going and going and going?

[Twins33]

Here's what Wolfson said about the offers. It's Wolfson, so grain of salt as always but..

 

 

He also called them "extremely team friendly" in another tweet to someone.

[Mike Sixel]

Shocking!

[Monkeypaws]

Perfectly negative thread - thanx,    

[TheLeviathan]

[henrichsj]

 

Here's what Wolfson said about the offers. It's Wolfson, so grain of salt as always but..

He also called them "extremely team friendly" in another tweet to someone.

 

Why would you have to take Wolfson with a grain of salt? I've always liked him and he usually seems to be in the know...

[KirbyDome89]

Lynn part II

 

The Twins can just low ball these guys, the players will realize there is no market for them, and then they'll be forced to re-up on 1 year deals.....

 

#Flexibility

[Blackjack]

 

Not sure how that's really relevant to if they should have said yes.

 

Heck, 3MM total might be enough to set them up for life, they shouldn't accept that.

Why wouldn't lifetime security, more money than you can reasonably spend in a lifetime, be relevant??? Why do you suppose Dozier signed his last contract?? He got lifetime security, in case he was injured. Now any contract that he signs is gravy, taking care of future generations.  Any of these young guys can do the same and STILL become free agents again before they are 30.

[diehardtwinsfan]

 

Why wouldn't lifetime security, more money than you can reasonably spend in a lifetime, be relevant??? Why do you suppose Dozier signed his last contract?? He got lifetime security, in case he was injured. Now any contract that he signs is gravy, taking care of future generations.  Any of these young guys can do the same and STILL become free agents again before they are 30.

 

There's definitely a tradeoff. Without knowing the offer, it's hard to say either way. Part of this is recognizing the amount of risk you absorb vs the amount of risk the team absorbs. Position players in particular have less injury risk, so it's certainly understandable for them to want to go year to year. 

[killertwinfan]

 

Well, you add up potential arbitration salaries, the possible first year free agent salary, maybe an option, and you go from there. One side wants to be a bit lower because something might happen. The other side wants to be a tad higher in case they become a superstar. Unless you can back out at a certain point. Also, the number of years has to be the question. Was it for 2-3 with the Twins looking for an arbitration bargain? Was it for 3-5 with options? 

 

Can't wait to see what next off-season brings. Will it be like 2018 overall. Will players have to start being content with 1-2 year contracts and no more $100 million extensions (I guess thee will always be those for at least one guy per team).

 

I'm especially curious to see what a Joe Mauer could get, eitehr from the Twins or elsewhere. Really, will he take a cut to $10 million (or less). Will he average around $15 million, like the Ortiz contract that keep on going and going and going?

Notwithstanding an interesting season ahead, I agree on the Mauer situation. If you look at his batting statistics, he is a middle of the pack first baseman.  Interestingly, a similar comp may be on our team.  I know this is a very rough comparison but if you compare positional ranks between Mauer & Morrison they are similar...

          Mauer       Morrison

BA       5th              18th

RBI      16th            11th

HR       36th            2nd

OBP     7th             14th

SLG     21st            9th

OPS    17th            11th

Age      34               30

 

(I hope the formatting holds up.) Looking at this you would have to ask yourself why would other teams pay much more than the $5.5M Morrison got this season?

[Darius]

This just hurt their chances of getting them to sign a deal down the road, IMO.

 

Isn't negotiating in good faith a thing at Twins' headquarters? That can go a long way. Or, is that where the "it's the business side of it," excuse to rip people off comes in? The constant and extreme low-balling, and it getting leaked every time, is getting downright embarrassing.

 

Offer the kids a reasonable, fair deal, and set the team up for 5+ years. As Gleeman said, it'll pay off for you down the road by paying a little more than the Pohlad's laughable expectation.

 

For all of the good moves this FO has made, they sure have some head scratching moments at times. Very questionable foresight on this one

[Dave The Dastardly]

 

This just hurt their chances of getting them to sign a deal down the road, IMO.

Isn't negotiating in good faith a thing at Twins' headquarters? That can go a long way. Or, is that where the "it's the business side of it," excuse to rip people off comes in? The constant and extreme low-balling, and it getting leaked every time, is getting downright embarrassing.

Offer the kids a reasonable, fair deal, and set the team up for 5+ years. As Gleeman said, it'll pay off for you down the road by paying a little more than the Pohlad's laughable expectation.

For all of the good moves this FO has made, they sure have some head scratching moments at times. Very questionable foresight on this one

First rule of negotiations; you never accept the first offer put on the table. First offers from both sides merely set the parameters for an eventual deal.

 

Negotiation is about ARRIVING at a fair deal.

[Otto von Ballpark]

Why wouldn't lifetime security, more money than you can reasonably spend in a lifetime, be relevant??? Why do you suppose Dozier signed his last contract?? He got lifetime security, in case he was injured. Now any contract that he signs is gravy, taking care of future generations. Any of these young guys can do the same and STILL become free agents again before they are 30.

I think the assumption here is that these offers were not as player-friendly as the Dozier deal (i.e. they tacked on a bunch of team option years). Dozier himself probably did decline such a proposal before they eventually came to terms on his deal.

[Otto von Ballpark]

First rule of negotiations; you never accept the first offer put on the table. First offers from both sides merely set the parameters for an eventual deal.

 

Negotiation is about ARRIVING at a fair deal.

But if you don't arrive at a deal, couldn't that also be a failure of negotiation?

 

I guess there is still some time with these guys, but it is getting more difficult every day. And while it would be understandable that they couldn't come to an agreement with every guy in the same offseason, it seems puzzling that they couldn't even make a deal with one of them.

[Vanimal46]

As Michael Scott used to say, "You miss 100% of the shots you don't take - Wayne Gretzky"

[Vanimal46]

First rule of negotiations; you never accept the first offer put on the table. First offers from both sides merely set the parameters for an eventual deal.

 

Negotiation is about ARRIVING at a fair deal.

Absolutely true. This is a very valuable life skill to know. Every organization has wiggle room to work with in the budget, and always offer the low point first in the budget.