Miguel Sano accused of assault by photographer

[jud6312]

 

Believe her. There is no reason for a woman to ever lie about something like this. There is absolutely nothing for her to gain. 

I'm in no way saying it didn't happen or she shouldn't be believed, but it has happened before. Remember what happened to Brian Banks before he made it to college or the NFL?

 

Not saying it's the same type of situation, and I do believe her, but it's not unprecedented to have something like that happen. And it could easily happen again.

[JustinCB]

 

 

2. I hate that social media is the new judge and jury. 

 

Easy to exploit?  Maybe.  Maybe even as easy as its been for men to pull this kind of crap and get away with it since time immemorial.  I'll take my chances with the former.  

[lukeduke1980]

I doubt that this will be the last story of this kind about a professional athlete - definitely sad.  I guess the context of the situation is hopefully part of being an immature 22 year old with an entitled taste of success and can be held fully accountable by his team and the league.

 

Suspend him, hope he learns.  Hope he works hard to rebuild his reputation.

[Richie the Rally Goat]

 

Sano needs be cut immediately. I don't care how good he is....there should be zero tolerance for this sort of thing.

Assuming guilt, there should be zero tolerance. Cutting Sano isn't punitive for him and only serves to give an advantage to a competitor who may or may not take this type of issue seriously. The Twins can't punish him, nor can they  help him, if they don't own his contract.

 

It seems like Sano's remuneration for his transgression (assuming guilt) is a league and collective bargaining thing. The Twin can suspend him, but can they suspend him without pay? Mandatory counseling seems like a good ancillary measure but not enough individually.

 

Others have listed 30 game suspension. It's a jumping off point, but I'm not sure it's enough.

[mazeville]

 

Sano needs be cut immediately. I don't care how good he is....there should be zero tolerance for this sort of thing.

 

You don't cut someone "immediately" based upon one Twitter allegation, no matter who it came from or how credible the source is. 

 

The Twins should take this allegation seriously, conduct a full investigation, and then take appropriate measures to deal with the situation. If there are enough problems that cutting Sano is warranted, then cut Sano. 

 

Based upon the current allegation, however, a suspension based on the Aroldis Chapman case is fully warranted. But again, the Twins should investigate. Not Twitter or blog comments. 

[AZTwin]

I'm in no way saying it didn't happen or she shouldn't be believed, but it has happened before. Remember what happened to Brian Banks before he made it to college or the NFL?

 

Not saying it's the same type of situation, and I do believe her, but it's not unprecedented to have something like that happen. And it could easily happen again.

In most cases I agree. Accusations have to be taken seriously but need to be investigated. The Duke lacrosse team almost had their lives destroyed on what turned out to be false allegations. With that said, I tend to believe her. I don’t believe for a second that the incident lasted 10 minutes (perhaps it seemed that way) but otherwise her story does seem credible

[Dortmunder]

I love baseball.  It is an escape, a hobby and has been a part of my life since I was a kid.  I wish reality didn't need to step in and muddy up the pleasure baseball brings.   But situations like this are more important than the game.  Any discipline from the team or the league will hopefully remind other professional athletes that this behavior is absolutely unacceptable.

[luckylager]

This just makes me sad.  Some similarities to the assault allegations against Kirby Puckett in 2006. While Kirby was eventually acquitted, it did tarnish his star in many eyes. I really hope that if the allegations are true (and I see no reason to doubt them), that Miguel will be punished and can get treatment and ultimately find redemption.  

[RollingOaks]

 

I'm in no way saying it didn't happen or she shouldn't be believed, but it has happened before. Remember what happened to Brian Banks before he made it to college or the NFL?

 

Not saying it's the same type of situation, and I do believe her, but it's not unprecedented to have something like that happen. And it could easily happen again.

Yes, he was wrongly accused. He never had a fair trial because his lawyer told him to plea guilty because the jury would convict him based on race and appearance.

 

False accusations do happen. However placing doubt while saying you believe her is part of the problem. Victims are afraid to speak out because people don't believe them or immediately inject doubt into their claim. 

[SirLoin]

Safe to assume the slimeball first base coach referenced is Butch Davis?

[Obsvr]

All kidding aside from the earlier post...I think all women should be believed until proven otherwise.

 

Sounds like this all happened in a very public place.  Surely there is security camera footage available that would corroborate the allegation.  It happened at a mall and of course malls have security camera's everywhere.  

 

Seems to me if its on tape it should be referred to the police.

[NorthwestTwinsFan]

 

You don't cut someone "immediately" based upon one Twitter allegation, no matter who it came from or how credible the source is. 

 

The Twins should take this allegation seriously, conduct a full investigation, and then take appropriate measures to deal with the situation. If there are enough problems that cutting Sano is warranted, then cut Sano. 

 

Based upon the current allegation, however, a suspension based on the Aroldis Chapman case is fully warranted. But again, the Twins should investigate. Not Twitter or blog comments. 

Ok, investigate it.  But once they find out the allegation is true (which it most likely is), then there needs to be a much more severe punishment than a 30-game suspension.  It would be hard for me to continue being a Twins fan as long as he is on the field.  These things will never stop happening if we keep prioritizing sports over the safety of women.

[Loosey]

Damn...  Also, where the hell was his agent and her the other guy with her?  How can you just turn your back when clearly someone is in need of help?  I don't care if the guy she needs help from is the professional athlete or random a-hole.  You need to step up and do something.  As bad as this is, by them not not helping this could have been much worse, luckily for her it stopped at assault. (As bad as that sounds)

[jud6312]

 

Yes, he was wrongly accused. He never had a fair trial because his lawyer told him to plea guilty because the jury would convict him based on race and appearance.

 

False accusations do happen. However placing doubt while saying you believe her is part of the problem. Victims are afraid to speak out because people don't believe them or immediately inject doubt into their claim. 

All I was trying to say is that the story needs to be allowed to play out before final judgment is cast. 

[Vanimal46]

I'll reserve judgment on this particular case until the investigation is complete.

 

Athletes and men of power have been idolized for so long. It's disgusting that they feel entitled to anything and anyone just because of their status.

 

To echo what Teflon said, I hate that social media is now the judge, jury, and executioner on these cases before all of the facts come out. It's the new version of cyber bullying...

 

Sadly the photographer is going to get nasty messages sent to her for bringing this out to light. Sano is also going to get nasty messages on social media for the accusation.

[mazeville]

 

Ok, investigate it.  But once they find out the allegation is true (which it most likely is), then there needs to be a much more severe punishment than a 30-game suspension.  It would be hard for me to continue being a Twins fan as long as he is on the field.  These things will never stop happening if we keep prioritizing sports over the safety of women.

 

I think a 30-game suspension is probably appropriate, assuming this is the only offense. He would be a first-time offender. It's a non-workplace situation. If it's deemed worse, then make it a larger suspension. 

 

Anything that does happen should come along with counseling and a very public apology. A good public apology, to fans and the photographer. 

 

The 30 games is based on the Aroldis Chapman case. That's a fair precedent in this situation.

[SF Twins Fan]

[drjim]

I think a 30-game suspension is probably appropriate, assuming this is the only offense. He would be a first-time offender. It's a non-workplace situation. If it's deemed worse, then make it a larger suspension.

 

Anything that does happen should come along with counseling and a very public apology. A good public apology, to fans and the photographer.

 

The 30 games is based on the Aroldis Chapman case. That's a fair precedent in this situation.

I tend to agree with this. I do wonder if other incidents will come to light.

 

Sano was 22 (21 if it was the spring) when he did this. He should absolutely be punished, but I have a hard time condemning him forever. I'm not sure what is fair and appropriate though.

[TheLeviathan]

 

Ok, investigate it.  But once they find out the allegation is true (which it most likely is), then there needs to be a much more severe punishment than a 30-game suspension.  It would be hard for me to continue being a Twins fan as long as he is on the field.  These things will never stop happening if we keep prioritizing sports over the safety of women.

 

I think we should be careful not to respond to every situation as if we need to eject the perpetrator of the assault from the planet.  What he did was wrong, but is it so wrong that we need to jump to such extreme measures?  I'd like to think not.  

 

I believe there are unforgivable offenses, but I don't believe this is one of them.  The Aroldis Chapman situation was a far worse offense IMO and 30 games was his punishment.  Like it or not, the Twins have to work within that framework.

 

We should resolve ourselves to do more to support the victim and make sure she feels justice is being accomplished without adjudicating this via social media.  Our justice system, flawed as it is, is still a better medium than 140 characters.  Our idea of justice is built on due process for all parties, protection for all parties from the mob, and the idea that people can learn from their mistakes.  We shouldn't forget that no matter how awful an offense may be.

 

The victim deserves due process and fair justice for what was done to her.  Miguel deserves due process and, hopefully, a significant set of reprecussions for his actions.  But whether he remains a Twin or not, we should also hope he comes away from this a better person who can continue to live his life as well.  

[DaveW]

Assuming he is ‘guilty’ which I no doubt think he is, I think it’s important Major League Baseball takes a long, smart, and in depth look at what the punishment should be.

 

If it were “rape” or anything in that pure category I would suggest the Twins cut him and he is banned from baseball.

 

However this feels like a grey area between sexual harassment and assault.

 

I wouldn’t ban him for life, or even for a year, nor would I cut him.

 

I think a 50 game suspension seems about right. 30 by MLb and another 20 from the Twins.

 

Though this story and incident is terrible, I am very glad for the victim (and to a much much lesser extent Sano) that it didn’t go any further.

 

Frankly there is no excuse for it, and even though I think Sano shouldn’t be cut, I wouldn’t be very upset if the FO decided they did need to cut him.

[sthpstm]

Are the Twins the one that can discipline or does it have to come from the league? For that consideration alone, does it matter if this was a team sanctioned event or if it was one his representatives arranged? 

 

[mazeville]

Oof.

 

http://www.tmz.com/2017/12/28/miguel-sano-denies-assaulting-female-photographer/

 

[PseudoSABR]

Criminal Justice is probably not the best arena to adjudicate these kind assaults either--with the high burden of proving beyond a reasonable doubt; often the only "proof" is the victim's testimony, and offset by the alleged-abuser's testimony--what tends then to be litigated is not what actually happened, but the credibility of the accuser.  Indeed, this is often why abuser select victims with compromised credibility or social standing.  

 

When the consequence is not jail time, I think the allegations, with minor corroboration (such as telling other people near the time of the event, the people were in the place she says they were), are enough for the Twins and us--as fans and as a society--to make a judgment.  Here, I think we've already gotten the kind corroboration necessary.   For those withholding judgment, what more do would you need?

[PseudoSABR]

 

 

Oof.

 

http://www.tmz.com/2017/12/28/miguel-sano-denies-assaulting-female-photographer/

The quotes sound like Sano was speaking through his attorney, or with statements prepared for him. 

[Vanimal46]

For those withholding judgment, what more do would you need?

Results and evidence from a thorough investigation. Why do we as a society need to rush to judgment and ruin someone's credibility/livelihood? Right now unless there's other stories I haven't read is a he said/she said account of events.

[SF Twins Fan]

 

Results and evidence from a thorough investigation. Why do we as a society need to rush to judgment and ruin someone's credibility/livelihood? Right now unless there's other stories I haven't read is a he said/she said account of events.

 

You would think since this happened at Ridgedale Shopping Center there would be cameras everywhere. Since this happened in 2015 you don't know how long they would store videos recordings though. 

[slash129]

Results and evidence from a thorough investigation. Why do we as a society need to rush to judgment and ruin someone's credibility/livelihood? Right now unless there's other stories I haven't read is a he said/she said account of events.

Except that we haven't even heard the "he said" part yet.

[PseudoSABR]

 

Results and evidence from a thorough investigation. Why do we as a society need to rush to judgment and ruin someone's credibility/livelihood? Right now unless there's other stories I haven't read is a he said/she said account of events.

But what kind of evidence? I'm not sure we'll see video camera evidence, or eye witness accounts.  This sounds like it happened in some internal corridor where there weren't a lot of people (or any one else present), and what witnesses do exist (agent/boss) are complicit if the allegations are true.  It's wishful thinking that there will be any hard evidence.  And what if there is no hard evidence, do you still withhold judgment? 

 

Judgment doesn't mean you snatch away Sano's livelihood; it means you acknowledge that these events likely happened, and this person was likely victimized.  Consequences can come later.  But deferring judgment and demanding an investigation--as I said above--shifts the judgment of Sano's credibility to the accuser--which is a big part of the reason victims are reluctant to step forward in the first place.

[PseudoSABR]

 

Except that we haven't even heard the "he said" part yet.

Yes we have.  Surprisingly, he denied it.

[Sssuperdave]

 

Except that we haven't even heard the "he said" part yet.

 

Yes we have.

 

"I unequivocally deny the allegation made against me today — it never happened"

 

http://www.tmz.com/2017/12/28/miguel-sano-denies-assaulting-female-photographer/