Miguel Sano accused of assault by photographer

[bunsen82]

 

10 PM EST, and still crickets on the Twins official homepage AND the MLB homepage. Nothing. Nada. Zilch. Amazing.

 

One learns a lot about people on a thread like this.

 

I think the thing that surprises me the most about all of this is the professed cover-up by TD. We all have choices, and have to live with them.

 

I am glad I am on the outside watching on this one.

I think there may be issues with the way this was handled, but not on Twinsdaily part and I am going to assume there was no cover-up or encouragement for her to keep quiet.    Organizations have learned real quick you make a bigger mess if you try to brush it under the rug or pay for individuals to be silent.  Because then it allows for more potential victims.  

[jsteve96]

 

But sexual assault doesn't need to end? My problem is you aren't holding him to the same standard as you are her. Why doesn't his life need to be ruined, like you say hers should be, if he's guilty?

His life is ruined, he's the guy that "beat up that girl" no one will like him and everyone will know him and hate him. She should be held to the same standard if she's lying and suing her is what you have to do.

 

thats if he's innocent. still TBD obviously

[Vanimal46]

It kind of does, actually... There was a movement to have victims of sexual assault yell "Fire!" so people would actually come help them.

That's a good thing. I was talking more about AZTwins' situation where he/she was held up and shot with a gun at his/her apartment complex.

 

Call it cowardly, but in this day and age I'm not running to help when there are guns around and shots fired.

[jsteve96]

 

I do want to also state several people trust her individually or believe her or want to support her over Sano (although that may also be due to possibly getting negative reactions for supporting that individual - which I didn't even support Sano and I have received negative comments in this thread). This support comes from people on this site, obviously a couple twins, and several other individuals that have had interactions with her. 

 

The other thing in her favor is I cannot totally justify is why she should would have gone with him to this signing unless he did in a way force her to go.   Unless there was a valid reason for this which I cannot come up with,  she seems like an individual who is steadfast in her motives, but may be a bit timid.  My wife would have told the 1st base coach if her statement was valid, he was a scumbag to his face and he should be ashamed of himself - which would have shut him down real quick, and with Sano would have been to yell to get his claws off of her before going in the 1st place and then would have kicked him where the sun don't shine if he wouldn't have let go. He very well may have not wanted to take a no for a no, but I wonder if she may have wanted to go along because he was a bit of a star and didn't yell and scream as loud as she has stated or said no due to being intimidated.  We just don't have those answers.  By the way I can guarantee any video evidence is long gone which sucks in this  case for both parties.  

 

Lastly this is a personal dilemma I have with the Metoo movement.  There are aspects of the Metoo movement that I really like and dislike.  The first is I like that it gives attention to the issue and emboldens women to speak up and know there is support.  However as I stated earlier this really isn't a proper method especially if you are going to name the accusers.  The accused should have some protections until a proper investigation for a workplace or going through a criminal or civil trial ultimately determines guilt.  I also question in this case what was the motive now for posting this. The metoo movement has now been out for over 2 months.  Did it take her this long to build up the courage, was there some other incident in her life that pushed this to the forefront.  Ultimately did she do this to become a part of the movement or did she have another motive.  The second is what did she want the outcome to be, to shame Sano, to possibly start an investigation, to hurt him professionally?  We don't know these answers, and if this really happened the answers to these questions really shouldn't matter.  But I do question if there is more to this story, and if so then these questions are pertinent.  

This^^^^^ 

[DaveW]

 

 

And really, let's put the false accusation narrative in full view. Beyond the Duke LaCrosse team, and amid all of the recent cascade of accusations of sexual assault, how many are know to be false? How many celebrity's reputations ruined?

One literally happened a couple weeks ago where numerous friends of the accuser came out and said she made the whole thing up.

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.usatoday.com/amp/952410001

[AZTwin]

 

That's a good thing. I was talking more about AZTwins' situation where he/she was held up and shot with a gun at his/her apartment complex.

Call it cowardly, but in this day and age I'm not running to help when there are guns around and shots fired.

Wasn't my apartment complex.  It was an ex's that I recently had rekindled things with.  Some guy had seen me leave her place a couple times... Thought it was peculiar that he was staring at me driving by one time I was leaving.  Went down there and he chased me down shooting.  Went down there the next day, her brother lives a few apartments down and tried denying it... A few of her best friends reached out to me asking if what they heard was true, so I know they knew.   It was around 8 pm on a Saturday... People were out.   He ended up seeing me in a parking lot a couple weeks later and again pulled out a gun (I took off) and later returned to see if businesses had cameras.  It got a little ugly after that for a bit.  Had a little PTSD from the initial situation (not sure how I got out alive).   A year later (this past summer) a different ex of hers ended up shot and murdered.  I actually talked to someone who knew a lot of what was going on and she told me what the friends said in the paper was a lie and she knew a lot more and told me more.  Of course no one would talk even if someone they knew and were friends with was killed.  I didn't even know this guy and I at least called silent witness and told them what I had heard.  A lot of times I consider myself lucky that wasn't me.

[bunsen82]

 

Wasn't my apartment complex.  It was an ex's that I recently had rekindled things with.  Some guy had seen me leave her place a couple times... Thought it was peculiar that he was staring at me driving by one time I was leaving.  Went down there and he chased me down shooting.  Went down there the next day, her brother lives a few apartments down and tried denying it... A few of her best friends reached out to me asking if what they heard was true, so I know they knew.   It was around 8 pm on a Saturday... People were out.   He ended up seeing me in a parking lot a couple weeks later and again pulled out a gun (I took off) and later returned to see if businesses had cameras.  It got a little ugly after that for a bit.  Had a little PTSD from the initial situation (not sure how I got out alive).   A year later (this past summer) a different ex of hers ended up shot and murdered.  I actually talked to someone who knew a lot of what was going on and she told me what the friends said in the paper was a lie and she knew a lot more and told me more.  Of course no one would talk even if someone they knew and were friends with was killed.  I didn't even know this guy and I at least called silent witness and told them what I had heard.  A lot of times I consider myself lucky that wasn't me.

it can be a scary world out there

 

[h2oface]

 

I think there may be issues with the way this was handled, but not on Twinsdaily part and there definitely isn't any cover up.  Organizations have learned real quick you make a bigger mess if you try to brush it under the rug or pay for individuals to be silent.  Because then it allows for more potential victims.  

 

Cover-up. I am not talking judicial system. It can sometimes be that one is told something, something they didn't chose to know, but were included, and now they have choices. If someone is not disclosing a crime, that is a cover-up. Perhaps there is no crime. I am not judging whether it was right or wrong, in this case, just acknowledging that it is the most surprising thing, to me, about this whole event. A best friend sees her best friend's husband obviously having an affair, but she chooses to not tell her best friend about it. She tells her husband, who is the best friend of the best friend's husband, about it. They both decide it is none of their business. A cover-up, and not even, necessarily, a crime. Perhaps I should us a different word. Go ahead and assign one, if you like. It has been offered here that TD knew about this for some time now, personally, by those that knew about it.

 

"Nick Nelson, one of the owners of Twins Daily, wrote on his site, “I’ve known Betsy for a long time. She related this experience to me and others many months ago. There is no reason to doubt its veracity. I speak for the entire Twins Daily ownership group in saying we believe her story, and respect/support her for making the difficult decision to share it publicly.”

 

There are many ways people chose to relieve themselves of ghosts or experiences that they want relief from. Some go to confession. Some do it in AA. Some do it with best friends. Some do in therapy. Some need to broadcast it much louder. There is motive when choosing. How many people have to know, if one's only motive is relief, for them to be relieved?

 

http://heavy.com/news/2017/12/betsy-bissen-photographer-twins-miguel-sano-assault-twitter/

 

Bissen wrote on Twitter, “The trolls are out in full force on [instagram]. Most saying how he would never go for a girl like me when he can get models. How a 200lb man could pull my ass thru a door (I box, so I do have strength to fight back). Or that I want fame/money from this. Let me assure you, I don’t. I want nothing more than to feel free of this burden I’ve carried with me since 2015. I have NOTHING to gain from this. It’s been hard enough for me to come forward knowing there would be backlash, but it was time.”

 

Bissen says she isn’t filing a lawsuit and doesn’t want anything other than her story to be known.

 

She said, “I’m not asking for anything from this other than to relieve myself of this horrific night. There’s no case/trial. Just a woman who wants this event to not hold any power over her. … The other brave women who have had similar things happen to them have shown me I’m not alone. I can only hope to offer than to someone else. It’s just a burden I didn’t want to live with anymore.”

 

One that uses social media everyday, has to be aware of the consequences of the relief chosen. Again, I am not judging. I am a visitor watching here, and paying attention.

[adorduan]

This doesn't make any sense. A quote from her: “Their car was pulled around to a back hallway door. As we got outside [sano] decided he needed to use the restroom. I asked my boss where it was and pointed to the door we just walked thru,” Bissen wrote. “Apparently I was too close and [sano] took that as a signal that I wanted him to grab me and try to take me back thru that door.”

 

So,  they are outside the building, her boss is right there (she spoke to him asking where the bathroom was) Sano grabs her outside the building where the "boss" supposedly is and tries to drag her through THAT door,  and yet the "boss" didn't see anything. Something smells about this.....

[bunsen82]

H2O,  I fully agree, I also want to clarify my above statement, I wrote in a reply to another individual but they did take down their original post.  If someone at twinsdaily became aware they should have reported due to the business relationship.  Whether Betsy was willing or not.  Several individuals have been fired from jobs for enabling the issue.  Since there is not a direct line between the two and being two years ago I could see why letting her tell her story would be ok.  The other is mandatory reporters and potentially required to report especially if it is to a dependent individual and for some states any sexual abuse or crime must be reported now questions asked.  It used to be 24 hours, it is now down to 2 hours for the state I live in, and that is for all allegations.  It is not the mandatory reporters job to determine the accuracy of the claims.   Even it is coming from someone with dementia or other mental disease.   That is for the investigators or police to determine.  

[TheLeviathan]

 

But if you think a ruined reputation is somehow the equivalent to jail-time, I imagine you haven't faced the consequence of jail time.   Yes, it's horrible to face false accusation, but it's not the same as going to jail.  And neither is the equivalent of being victimized, and being afraid to tell someone because people won't believe you and will tear your life apart. 

 

And really, let's put the false accusation narrative in full view.  Beyond the Duke LaCrosse team, and amid all of the recent cascade of accusations of sexual assault, how many are know to be false? How many celebrity's reputations ruined? 

 

In your opinion, based on the evidence presented - what is the likely punishment Sano would be served with by the justice system?  I'd guess 5th degree assault with nothing close to the maximum.  If you disagree, I'm open to hearing that.  

 

But let's say he gets 30 days in jail and then resumes his baseball career for a decade.  Or, we do as suggested in this very thread, and end his baseball career now for this accusation.  Which of those choices do you think Sano would choose?  Which would you choose?  I'd gladly serve my 30 days and have my career.  I would venture to guess most people would choose that as well.  Yes, the jail time sucks, but not as much as the alternative.

 

I appreciate that social media has created an environment that makes victims comfortable speaking.  That's a good thing.  I don't appreciate that it emboldens large groups of people, many of which are anonymous, pressuring companies, police departments, and other handlers of consequences into determining guilty decisions.  That is dangerous. And it is happening.  This behavior is escalating and resulting in tragic consequences not just for the accused but for their families, their co-workers, and for our very idea of justice.  

 

You should reconsider how quick you are to excuse or minimize that.

 

Let me repeat, so I'm not twisted here:  I value hearing her story.  I'm glad she felt like she could tell it.  I judge her truthful.  I want to see the Twins and MLB investigate and assign a just consequence for Miguel Sano should their investigation confirm it warranted.  And from there I step aside and watch it unfold.

[Vanimal46]

This doesn't make any sense. A quote from her: “Their car was pulled around to a back hallway door. As we got outside [sano] decided he needed to use the restroom. I asked my boss where it was and pointed to the door we just walked thru,” Bissen wrote. “Apparently I was too close and [sano] took that as a signal that I wanted him to grab me and try to take me back thru that door.”

 

So, they are outside the building, her boss is right there (she spoke to him asking where the bathroom was) Sano grabs her outside the building where the "boss" supposedly is and tries to drag her through THAT door, and yet the "boss" didn't see anything. Something smells about this.....

This part of the story needs clarification for sure. And if Sano was trying to pull the victim back in that door for "a solid 10 minutes" where was her boss and Sano's agent? Playing Candy crush on their phones oblivious to the outside world?

 

This is where we need an investigation to find out the truth.

[adorduan]

 

This part of the story needs clarification for sure. And if Sano was trying to pull the victim back in that door for "a solid 10 minutes" where was her boss and Sano's agent? Playing Candy crush on their phones oblivious to the outside world?

This is where we need an investigation to find out the truth.

Well, apparently it might not have been 10 minutes, although that what she claims elsewhere. And purple skin is basically the definition of a bruise. don't get that part of her statement either.

 

When questioned by a Twitter user about how long Sano tried to get her into the door, Bissen wrote, “It’s not like I clocked it. I felt like an eternity that I was pulling with every bit of strength I had in my legs, in my arm. My wrist was red and purple when I got home that night. (not a bruise, just sore)

[Vanimal46]

Well, apparently it might not have been 10 minutes, although that what she claims elsewhere. And purple skin is basically the definition of a bruise. don't get that part of her statement either.

 

When questioned by a Twitter user about how long Sano tried to get her into the door, Bissen wrote, “It’s not like I clocked it. I felt like an eternity that I was pulling with every bit of strength I had in my legs, in my arm. My wrist was red and purple when I got home that night. (not a bruise, just sore)

Okay, then "a solid 10 minutes" was a bad choice of words in her prepared Twitter post. I'm trying to stay as neutral as possible until all of the facts come out. In her case, I hope she was proactive and took photos of her wrist the day it happened. That will certainly provide evidence supporting her perspective of what happened that day.

[adorduan]

 

In your opinion, based on the evidence presented - what is the likely punishment Sano would be served with by the justice system?  I'd guess 5th degree assault with nothing close to the maximum.  If you disagree, I'm open to hearing that.  

 

But let's say he gets 30 days in jail and then resumes his baseball career for a decade.  Or, we do as suggested in this very thread, and end his baseball career now for this accusation.  Which of those choices do you think Sano would choose?  Which would you choose?  I'd gladly serve my 30 days and have my career.  I would venture to guess most people would choose that as well.  Yes, the jail time sucks, but not as much as the alternative.

 

I appreciate that social media has created an environment that makes victims comfortable speaking.  That's a good thing.  I don't appreciate that it emboldens large groups of people, many of which are anonymous, pressuring companies, police departments, and other handlers of consequences into determining guilty decisions.  That is dangerous. And it is happening.  This behavior is escalating and resulting in tragic consequences not just for the accused but for their families, their co-workers, and for our very idea of justice.  

 

You should reconsider how quick you are to excuse or minimize that.

 

Let me repeat, so I'm not twisted here:  I value hearing her story.  I'm glad she felt like she could tell it.  I judge her truthful.  I want to see the Twins and MLB investigate and assign a just consequence for Miguel Sano should their investigation confirm it warranted.  And from there I step aside and watch it unfold.

This ^^^^^^^^^^^^

[h2oface]

..... same article linked in my previous post.....

 

http://heavy.com/news/2017/12/betsy-bissen-photographer-twins-miguel-sano-assault-twitter/

 

Sano’s former agent, Rob Plummer, told ESPN he was at the mall for the signing, but was not in a position to see what happened. “I was outside next to the car, waiting for him to come out on the other side of the loading bay dock, so I don’t know what happened inside,” Plummer told ESPN. “I didn’t see or hear anything. I wasn’t anywhere near Miguel.”

[Han Joelo]

The eminent author Barry Lopez recently came forward to add his voice, detailing how he was horrifically sexually abused as a child some fifty years ago. This was in Harper's or the Atlantic I believe. After reading that, and hearing my wife tell her story from years ago to me for the first time, fifteen years into our relationship, I have no questions as to "why now?" Catharsis must come eventually, hopefully.

 

As to the baseball part, I just read an article on MLBTR revisiting the Reds/Yankees Chapman trade. The Reds traded him for peanuts, and mere months later he was being glorified as a World Series hero, embraced by the venerable Yankees AND Cubs. Someone will pay the price for this incident, most likely the Twins.

 

Perhaps leagues should compensate teams with extra draft picks or pool money when they take the high road and jettison players accused of assault.

[Squirrel]

This has been a very difficult discussion, one I have not entered into but very little. It has been heated and emotional, with various ‘sides’ being taken. After some discussion, we have decided to give both threads a little bit of some breathing space and to take a little bit of a break and revisit this tomorrow. Locking this is only temporary and both threads will be opened tomorrow for continued respectful discussion. This discussion has gone back and forth in its relation to Sano to a more general topic, and we’ve heard from several of you in various forms ... PM’s, reports and public opinions ... as to it’s continued pertinence in this forum, so when reopened for discussion, it’s possible this may be moved to a more appropriate forum.

 

Thank you. I wish you a peaceful good night.

[glunn]

I have just read this entire thread and my sense is that most of the posts have been thoughtful. However, some posters have been disrespectful of other posters.  Once the thread is unlocked there is going to be ZERO TOLERANCE of that. If you think that someone's post is stupid, either be respectful in your response or refrain from responding. If you insult the other poster or bicker then you will have your posting privileges suspended.

 

My impression based on reading the thread is that I believe that there is general agreement that Betsy is probably telling the truth. On the other hand, we live in a country where the presumption of innocence is a bedrock principle, and it is important to look for discrepancies in any accuser's story.

 

I suspect that it will be weeks or months until all relevant information becomes public, or maybe it will never become public. In the meantime, the moderators are going to insist that posters be respectful of opposing views. Feel free to argue, but keep it respectful.

 

 

[Brock Beauchamp]

Okay, so we're going to try this again, everyone. Be on your best behavior, as everyone (ownership and moderators) will be watching this thread closely.

[drjim]

I appreciate the lock you put on this.

 

I have read her statement multiple times and had a long conversation with my wife to to help process some thoughts, here's what I came up with.

 

1. I believe her, I have no doubt an incident happened and that it has caused her great distress.

 

2. I can't shake the "10 minutes" part of her story. That doesn't seem possible. That is a really long time, and a struggle like that would wear out anyone before 10 minutes. I understand it could "feel" like forever, but I struggle to see how it lasted much more than 30 seconds. And that makes a difference.

 

3. I wait to see if more evidence comes out or if more accusers come forward. If Sano is truly a bad guy, there will be more.

 

4. If I take her story as exact fact of what happened (give or take the 10 minutes), but nothing else comes out, I still don't know what is fair punishment. I think cutting Sano is a massive overreaction, this isn't as bad as Chapman, and it is not close to the bad stories that are coming out. If (a big if) there is no pattern, I like to think a bad action by a 22 year old can be redeemed.

 

5. Sano did strongly deny it. I don't know what to make of that.

 

6. If the story as told is basically true, and I want to give Sano some benefit of his actions, it is not a huge stretch to see this as mostly a cultural misunderstanding, albeit an aggressive one that caused trauma. Young male Latinos can be aggressive, there is a language barrier, and he might not have understood societal cues. I'm not sure what to do with that.

 

7. I feel really sad for Betsy. Both that it happened and there is now this big mess.

[bunsen82]

I think clear heads will prevail.  I will say late last night I was getting more upset after the thread was locked especially with post from Brock telling me "to back the **** up" and several of the other mods liking it.  I realize you are all close to the situation and some of you may have a friendship with the accuser and it creates a situation where toes can be stepped on.  

 

After reading more and more though I ultimately see minimal to no punishment being dished out to Sano.  The facts, and I am using that term loosely, just don't support any severe punishment.  Add into the fact, from my experience doing investigations I would label her as a poor historian.  We have the one discrepancy with Twins Daily, which can't be dismissed even though some on the board would like to, she has also admitted now it likely wasn't 10 minutes but it felt like eternity. This was the most salacious statement.  Without knowing an exact time of how long this is it makes it very difficult to prove whether Sano truly did anything wrong legally, maybe not necessarily on a golden rule principle or how he should have treated her.  My father in law had a cardiac event a couple years ago, his wife found him and she says she felt like she was frozen in time for 5 minutes before she called the police and it was another 5 minutes before police came.  If that were the case he would be brain dead now.  He is 100% healthy, and after timing some things out it was most likely 3-4 minutes from the time she found him to the time police came and started giving cpr which made all the difference.  If this is even 1-2 minutes or even 30 seconds of Sano making advances at her but it felt like eternity, this story is completely different.  

 

  She also threw blame on the agent and then stated he would essentially cover up or mislead to protect himself and the client.   Whether she is aware or not that agent no longer is Sano's agent, has no current incentive to mislead and flatly denied he was aware of anything and was far away from the incident.  I will admit I question how anyone can remember an event from 2 years ago - on his part unless it was truly traumatic which it wouldn't have been for him (which for Betsy it obviously was),  but in either case it is diminishing her credibility and the likely only evidence is her word in all of this unless someone can corroborate something else.  

 

The concern I have is two articles I saw from major headlines stated Sano was accused of sexual assault/abuse.  To me this is out and out wrong.   I really don't think this was a metoo story personally, and if it was something Betsy wanted to do to break her free of this incident I really feel Sano's name should have never been brought up.  She claims she wants no investigation, no lawyer and no case.  I can guarantee she will have to lawyer up today.  That lawyer will likely want to file a claim (even if its weak) and an investigation has already started so everything she didn't want is likely going to occur. 

[Doomtints]

 

Okay, then "a solid 10 minutes" was a bad choice of words in her prepared Twitter post. I'm trying to stay as neutral as possible until all of the facts come out. In her case, I hope she was proactive and took photos of her wrist the day it happened. That will certainly provide evidence supporting her perspective of what happened that day.

 

Whether it was 10 minutes or 1 minute, does it matter?

[drjim]

Whether it was 10 minutes or 1 minute, does it matter?

Yes. And if it was, say, 15 seconds, would also make a big difference.

 

It is the most important detail in determining what Sano did, what his motivation might have been, and how he should be punished. It's not a good look that she backtracked on it already.

[bunsen82]

 

Whether it was 10 minutes or 1 minute, does it matter?

Doomtints, so I would pose the question what punishment should there be for a male holding a women's wrist unintentionally tighter than he should have, making 2 attempts to kiss her, but not following through after no reciprocated, the whole event taking 30 seconds and him leaving and not doing anything else.   What is truly wrong in this case other than him needing to A. read signals better and B.  needing to understand his own strength.  If this goes on for 10 minutes then yes, that is way too long,  I would say anything more than 90 seconds to 2 minutes is pushing the line into a physical assault situation without that we don't even potentially have that claim. 

[Mr. Brooks]

Doomtints, so I would pose the question what punishment should there be for a male holding a women's wrist unintentionally tighter than he should have, making 2 attempts to kiss her, but not following through after no reciprocated, the whole event taking 30 seconds and him leaving and not doing anything else. What is truly wrong in this case other than him needing to A. read signals better and B. needing to understand his own strength. If this goes on for 10 minutes then yes, that is way too long, I would say anything more than 90 seconds to 2 minutes is pushing the line into a physical assault situation without that we don't even potentially have that claim.

Holding someone's wrists without their permission is assault. Regardless of the duration or level of force.

I'm not saying those things don't matter, but they change only the degree of assault, not whether it is or isn't assault.

[Mr. Brooks]

I think clear heads will prevail. I will say late last night I was getting more upset after the thread was locked especially with post from Brock telling me "to back the **** up" and several of the other mods liking it. I realize you are all close to the situation and some of you may have a friendship with the accuser and it creates a situation where toes can be stepped on.

 

After reading more and more though I ultimately see minimal to no punishment being dished out to Sano. The facts, and I am using that term loosely, just don't support any severe punishment. Add into the fact, from my experience doing investigations I would label her as a poor historian. We have the one discrepancy with Twins Daily, which can't be dismissed even though some on the board would like to, she has also admitted now it likely wasn't 10 minutes but it felt like eternity. This was the most salacious statement. Without knowing an exact time of how long this is it makes it very difficult to prove whether Sano truly did anything wrong legally, maybe not necessarily on a golden rule principle or how he should have treated her. My father in law had a cardiac event a couple years ago, his wife found him and she says she felt like she was frozen in time for 5 minutes before she called the police and it was another 5 minutes before police came. If that were the case he would be brain dead now. He is 100% healthy, and after timing some things out it was most likely 3-4 minutes from the time she found him to the time police came and started giving cpr which made all the difference. If this is even 1-2 minutes or even 30 seconds of Sano making advances at her but it felt like eternity, this story is completely different.

 

She also threw blame on the agent and then stated he would essentially cover up or mislead to protect himself and the client. Whether she is aware or not that agent no longer is Sano's agent, has no current incentive to mislead and flatly denied he was aware of anything and was far away from the incident. I will admit I question how anyone can remember an event from 2 years ago - on his part unless it was truly traumatic which it wouldn't have been for him (which for Betsy it obviously was), but in either case it is diminishing her credibility and the likely only evidence is her word in all of this unless someone can corroborate something else.

 

The concern I have is two articles I saw from major headlines stated Sano was accused of sexual assault/abuse. To me this is out and out wrong. I really don't think this was a metoo story personally, and if it was something Betsy wanted to do to break her free of this incident I really feel Sano's name should have never been brought up. She claims she wants no investigation, no lawyer and no case. I can guarantee she will have to lawyer up today. That lawyer will likely want to file a claim (even if its weak) and an investigation has already started so everything she didn't want is likely going to occur.

And yet, it would be absurd to say that, because of the time discrepancy, that your father in laws cardiac arrest didn't happen, do you agree?

[Loosey]

First off I believe her.  However, (and this is my hope) the 10 minutes of being pulled seems to be really, really long time.  It makes Sano seem like a monster (Which he very much could be/is).  That being said, any attempt to be possibly sexually assaulted has to be a traumatic experience.  And 45 seconds could feel like 10 minutes when you are literally scared for your life.  Not that this post has any really meaning it can.  But I think that can explain why no one attempted to help her and the two others with them didn't know anything was going on.  So I think some of her statements on social media need to be viewed as someone who was assaulted and even though she is telling the truth, could be off slightly due to the experience she had.  Which is why I think the whole jury on social media thing needs to end, because many things are not known or accounted for.

 

That being said, MLB needs to investigate this thoroughly and hand down punish appropriately when complete.

[bunsen82]

Assault

At Common Law, an intentional act by one person that creates an apprehension in another of an imminent harmful or offensive contact.

An assault is carried out by a threat of bodily harm coupled with an apparent, present ability to cause the harm. It is both a crime and a tort and, therefore, may result in either criminal or civil liability. Generally, the common law definition is the same in criminal and Tort Law. There is, however, an additional Criminal Law category of assault consisting of an attempted but unsuccessful Battery.

Statutory definitions of assault in the various jurisdictions throughout the United States are not substantially different from the common-law definition.

 

I would argue no one has ever had a charge of assault of just holding someone's hands or upper arm unless it causes harm - bruising cut ect, or in an intentionally restraining manner.  She claims the arm was purple after but no bruising.  Again no harm no assault.  Also Mr. Brooks we are arguing two separate points.  I am saying something inconsequestial such as unintentionally restraining an arm really for 30 seconds doesn't rise  to the level of criminal or even a violation of business law.  More than 90 seconds and this is being done more against her will, there is no way this can still be construed as unintentional and we may have some minor punishments.  Again minor, there was very little harm that occurred in this case.  Yes it was traumatic for her, but again her threshold is different from criminal and business regulations. 

[bunsen82]

The issue becomes if the time changes to 30 seconds or 1-2 minutes, from 10, then is anything that she stated factually true,  this is the slippery slope that she is going to enter because she potentially made some misstatements and her word is her only support at this time.