Don’t hold your breath Twins fans

[Vanimal46]

Also, remember this is a sports team. A game. None of this actually matters to any of us, excluding anyone reading this who might be on the payroll.

 

We have to remember to not take this stuff too seriously. It's fun when the Twins win, but we have proven we will stay interested even if they don't, so it's only ourselves we are fooling when we go off on a tangent like this.

 

(And yeah, this goes both ways, there's also no reason to blindly support the bad decisions either.)

Great post. My days of living and dying by what my favorite team does is long over. Some feel it's a failure unless their team wins a championship, and that's their prerogative. For me, sports are nothing more than entertainment. I'd like my favorite teams to win more than they lose, but it doesn't affect my every day life if they lose.

[Craig Arko]

 

Great post. My days of living and dying by what my favorite team does is long over. Some feel it's a failure unless their team wins a championship, and that's their prerogative. For me, sports are nothing more than entertainment. I'd like my favorite teams to win more than they lose, but it doesn't affect my every day life if they lose.

Indeed, one might call that a sign of maturity.

[FunnyPenguin]

 

Indeed, one might call that a sign of maturity.

Maturity, what does that big word mean?

[Craig Arko]

Maturity, what does that big word mean?

We will sell no wine before its time.

[sampleSizeOfOne]

Indeed, one might call that a sign of maturity.

New we were gonna sign someone soon...

 

How much did we sign Maturity for?

 

And for how many years?

 

Personally, i hope it's a minor league contract with invite to spring training.

 

Joking aside, it sure is good to keep things in perspective.

[Richie the Rally Goat]

If they didn't have a grip on the talent on this team before they took the job, then they are horrible baseball execs. I don't believe that is true. They did know, and chose to ride the year out with basically no improvements, and even tried to tear down what was surprisingly performing better than they thought it would. The results were not tied to anything they did, as they did just about nothing (except try to sabotage it with jettisoning Kintzler and Garcia, and adding the rejected tanking Colon).

 

Still plenty of time to sign Darvish, until they let someone else sign him first. Personally, after watching him pitch for the Dodgers, I am not so keen on Darvish. Whether Darvish or Jake, or Lynn or Cobb, or whoever...... my bet is they will regret the contract before it is half over...... regardless. But I still want them to spend the money.

i read that more of, if it’s a hundred loss team, no amount of realistic free agent spend is going make them contenders. They needed the core to mature and take over the team into contention before legit free agent spend.

 

That’s happened in one season rather than two.

[Richie the Rally Goat]

New we were gonna sign someone soon...

 

How much did we sign Maturity for?

 

And for how many years?

 

Personally, i hope it's a minor league contract with invite to spring training.

 

Joking aside, it sure is good to keep things in perspective.

i didn’t know they had Napoli inked

[old nurse]

 

I don't know. Lots of FAs go for the money first..... lots of FAs sign with bad teams. I think fans over estimate, where money is not close, just how important a good team is. It's mostly about money.

 

Secondly, it didn't take a genius front office to know the SP was bad, and was likely to remain bad. I don't understand what had to be analyzed or observed to know they needed more pitching last year. Whether there was pitching they liked or not, that's a different question. But no one had to observe anything for another year to know they needed more SP.

Last year's class of espn's top 20 free agents Castro signed with the Twins, Ramos with the Rays. 2014Lowrie and Rasmus with the Asros,  2013 was Nolasco and Santana with the Twins,  2012 was Jackson with the Cubs In 5 years previous to this one 7 of the top 100 free agents signed with teams that had 90+ losses. 4 of them were with the Twins. I do not think that 7  would be considered lots. How well those seven signings worked out would be open to debate.

[Richie the Rally Goat]

Last year's class of espn's top 20 free agents Castro signed with the Twins, Ramos with the Rays. 2014Lowrie and Rasmus with the Asros, 2013 was Nolasco and Santana with the Twins, 2012 was Jackson with the Cubs In 5 years previous to this one 7 of the top 100 free agents signed with teams that had 90+ losses. 4 of them were with the Twins. I do not think that 7 would be considered lots. How well those seven signings worked out would be open to debate.

we’re missing the part about competing offers....

 

I think winning has a component to attracting free agents, along with money as well as reputation and clubhouse culture type things.

 

I think Levine had struggles with signing Napoli last year even though he came in higher than where Napoli signed, partly because the Twins were so bad the year before, partly because no one really knew what to make of them.

[rv78]

 

Here's the thing. No Twins GM has ever said they'd sign a top free agent. Ever. Both Levine and Ryan have said similar things about payroll - stay within limits, build up a better farm/analytic department, look for good fits in FA. But every year, fans get super excited about a big name free agent signing here and then blame the GM when they don't get him.

Maybe No Twins GM has ever said they'd sign a top free agent but someone (The Owners?) DID say that the reason why the Twins wanted/built a new stadium was to increase revenue and that would allow them to be able to compete for top free agents. Since the new stadium has been built we as Twins fans have seen NO TOP FREE AGENTS signed. Keep waiting........ this organization is all about hype, hope and a prayer, and the level of gull-ability it can impose on it's fans.

 

One of the usual phrases is thrown at us every year, wait till next season, we are only a year or two away from competing, we have one of the best farm systems in all of baseball and when that next core of young talent gets here......

[BrianTrottier]

 

This has a very different vibe - in this case the FO jumped up and said we are going to sign... It was not the fans who started this thread.

 

Link? I've never read or heard anything from the FO where they said that they are going to make an impact signing. They have said on multiple occasions that they are making signing Darvish a priority, which is far from an assurance that they are actually going to sign him. It would be stupid for them to say that.

[USAFChief]

Link? I've never read or heard anything from the FO where they said that they are going to make an impact signing. They have said on multiple occasions that they are making signing Darvish a priority, which is far from an assurance that they are actually going to sign him. It would be stupid for them to say that.

That seems like a distinction without a difference, no?

[BrianTrottier]

 

That seems like a distinction without a difference, no?

I think it's an important distinction in that people probably shouldn't get their hopes up too much. They've declared themselves players in the Darvish sweepstakes, but the decision is ultimately the player's.

[mikelink45]

 

Link? I've never read or heard anything from the FO where they said that they are going to make an impact signing. They have said on multiple occasions that they are making signing Darvish a priority, which is far from an assurance that they are actually going to sign him. It would be stupid for them to say that.

I agree with what you wrote, but I do believe that there was one particular interview that put signing Darvish far above the - we are in on everyone - normal statements.  They have made Darvish the key to interviews on air and in writing to an extent that I have never seen with the Twins and frankly I think that they went too far for a fan base starved for another shot at the top. 

[Winston Smith]

A good signing at this point would certainly make us all, well most of us, feel better.

[Richie the Rally Goat]

I think it's an important distinction in that people probably shouldn't get their hopes up too much. They've declared themselves players in the Darvish sweepstakes, but the decision is ultimately the player's.

well, yeah, isn’t that the point of “free” “agency”?

[Thegrin]

I hate this thread.  I hate the negativity it promotes.  When you compare the Twins needs with the available Free Agents, Falvine is looking at a shallow, overpriced pool of talent.  When you look at the pool of talent in the Twins organization it is deep and promising.  Maybe it is more important that Falvine doesn't lose much of that talent so that the Twins can move into playoff contention for the future.

 

[old nurse]

 

we’re missing the part about competing offers....

I think winning has a component to attracting free agents, along with money as well as reputation and clubhouse culture type things.

I think Levine had struggles with signing Napoli last year even though he came in higher than where Napoli signed, partly because the Twins were so bad the year before, partly because no one really knew what to make of them.

Did not miss it at all. It was not central to the point I was making.  Napoli signing with Texas was going to the team he knew.  At that point he had over 70 million in career earnings. He was likely not going to be swayed by a couple of million.

[Mike Sixel]

I hate this thread. I hate the negativity it promotes. When you compare the Twins needs with the available Free Agents, Falvine is looking at a shallow, overpriced pool of talent. When you look at the pool of talent in the Twins organization it is deep and promising. Maybe it is more important that Falvine doesn't lose much of that talent so that the Twins can move into playoff contention for the future.

Free agents always look over priced. How does signing a free agent cost them any existing talent?

[peterb18]

Here's the thing. No Twins GM has ever said they'd sign a top free agent. Ever. Both Levine and Ryan have said similar things about payroll - stay within limits, build up a better farm/analytic department, look for good fits in FA. But every year, fans get super excited about a big name free agent signing here and then blame the GM when they don't get him.

Not signing big time free agents for the Minnesota Twins is corporate policy. A guy like a Terry Ryan is not

dumb...he knew who the best players that were available but corporate, or Pohlad philosophy, is to develop

or promote through the farm system. However, the most consistent result is through the combination of the farm system and signing some quality free agents.

[Thegrin]

 

Free agents always look over priced. How does signing a free agent cost them any existing talent?

 

The money might be spent extend ending the contracts of Buxton and the gang.

 

We would lose a 40 man roster spot and he might turn out to be Big Papi .

 

Those are 2 ways they could lose existing talent before their time.

 

 

[sampleSizeOfOne]

i didn’t know they had Napoli inked

Ya got me. I didn't know that's what they were calling him.

 

There would be something unny about introducing oneself as Maturity...

 

And my apologies, i have not really been paying as close attention to the Twins off season as it warrents. I don't get to learn the entire Dodgers roster because obviously we are holding out for a 25 for Dozier swap...

[BrianTrottier]

 

well, yeah, isn’t that the point of “free” “agency”?

 

Yes, but some people seem confused by the word "agency." Hence statements arguing that the Twins FO "promised" they will sign Darvish, as well as the apparent assumption that whether a player signs here or not is completely on the FO, rather than the player himself.

[Richie the Rally Goat]

Yes, but some people seem confused by the word "agency." Hence statements arguing that the Twins FO "promised" they will sign Darvish, as well as the apparent assumption that whether a player signs here or not is completely on the FO, rather than the player himself.

indeed, the concept of agency is important here. As is the differentiation between promise and priority.

 

I am still hopeful that Levine successfully wooes Darvish, even though my preference would be to trade for a higher end pitcher like Paxton and sign Cobb.

 

I don’t think the FO can sign Darvish and still bolster the middle of the rotation. Signing Darvish still significantly improves the rotation and would still be an immense positive.

[notoriousgod71]

 

indeed, the concept of agency is important here. As is the differentiation between promise and priority.

I am still hopeful that Levine successfully wooes Darvish, even though my preference would be to trade for a higher end pitcher like Paxton and sign Cobb.

I don’t think the FO can sign Darvish and still bolster the middle of the rotation. Signing Darvish still significantly improves the rotation and would still be an immense positive.

 

Signing Darvish does bolster the middle of the rotation because now Berrios is your three instead of two.

[USAFChief]

Absolutely not. Declaring interest isn't remotely close to guaranteeing a specific outcome.

 

This whole thread is just ridiculous. Its entire premise is built off fallacious assumptions, and bad faith seems to be piling up as a result.

Thus thread is built off fallacious assumptions?

 

Falvine themselves have declared Darvish "a priority." Those two clearly believe upgrading the pitching is a necessity.

 

Now I guess you can split hairs and say "them declaring they need it is not the same as them saying they'll go get it," but thats hardly ridiculous.

 

And btw...please be careful about using the term ridiculous to describe someone's thread

[Rosterman]

The BIG need is for a top flight starting pitcher. That market has yet to set, as the primary four are still out there...watching the contract price for 50- inning relief pitchers heat up significantly.

 

The chances are probably slim that the Twins sign any of the four unless they break the bank. Yes, Minnesota can still be considered a rebuilding team and is in...Minnesota. Somehow people find more graces in the bigger city market (endorsement monies, lifestyle, etc.). But you never do know.

 

Of course, the Twins could package players for a top flight starter for the next 2-3 seasons and go from there.

 

Will Cleveland be vulnerable in 2018? At this point in the sesson...maybe. But not enough to loss wins towards the Twins. Has the rest of the division improved? Possibly. Any of the other teams could be the Twins of 2017 and surprise folks.

 

The joys of baseball.

 

Unless the Twins do make a big splash, they remain out-of-the-news. The only way they get a smidgen of coverage is sexual harassment (which should be all over the place in the world of spots -- and music -- knowing what HAS gone on) or continued talks that they are pursuing a BIG contract signing, which has weight and holds weight as long as they can convince us that they were in the hunt but jut came up a dollar or two short.

 

Spring Training is around the corner, so things have to start setting generally in baseball. The days leading up to Twinsfest should prove fruitful. The ocne BIG chance for the Twins to get coverage before the Super Bowl is then.

[Dantes929]

 

I agree with basically everything you've said except for the fact that the Yankee's have traded for Stanton and the Giant's just traded for Longoria. He's probably not a star anymore but still a good player.

Also, Span had a higher OPS than Longoria last year.     I would not mind having Longoria on our team but he is really not a big splash in anything but name recognition at this point.   Good but not great.

[Dantes929]

I said the day after the season ended that if the Twins were to sign Cobb they would automatically get a B+ from me for the off season and I would be ok if they were done at that point.     So far they get a D_ from me, not because of standing still but because of signing Rodney and letting Burdi go and for having any interest in Napoli.   The only plus is they haven't made a bad trade of our top prospects. The fact is there were only about 8 players, pitchers or other that I would even want them to get.    30 teams, 8 players.    That is why just signing a guy like Cobb would have been a good get and if they had gone after it aggressively like they did Castro last year they may have gotten him out of the gate.    I would like Cobb because of the depth and quality he would give us in the upper part of the rotation.   This doesn't mean the cupboard is bare if we don't get him.   We just rely more on guys like Gonsalves, May and Romero.   Not my plan A but better than doing something stupid.   Pitching prospects not working out in the past is not proof that they will never work out.

[Richie the Rally Goat]

Signing Darvish does bolster the middle of the rotation because now Berrios is your three instead of two.

indeed it does, but you are still locked in to Mejia and Gibson at 4/5.

 

What happens when time catches up to Santana? It’s bound to happen sooner or later.