How do we fix this so called bullpen?

[Thrylos]

 

 

I don't mind Kintzler at closer. He has been good enough so far. I'd much rather they fix the MRP instead of overpaying for a "proven" closer.

 

 

They can fix the MRP by having Kintzler there    I hope that Chargois will be the closer by year's end and that Rogers keeps it up.  That said, I'd love to see what it will take to get someone like Brad Hand from the Padres and Yusmeiro Petit from the Angels.  Not proven closers, but major improvement over Buddy Bo and Spinning head Belisle

[h2oface]

 

They can fix the MRP by having Kintzler there    I hope that Chargois will be the closer by year's end and that Rogers keeps it up.  That said, I'd love to see what it will take to get someone like Brad Hand from the Padres and Yusmeiro Petit from the Angels.  Not proven closers, but major improvement over Buddy Bo and Spinning head Belisle

 

 

Spinning Head Belisle! SHB. I love it.

[DocBauer]

And to think Greg Holland could have been had. No trade. Just a better offer, or a sooner offer. That kind of leadership, apparently, is not in the Falvey/Levine book. Take a risk. Very disappointing.

 

But who knew, you might retort? Colorado didn't know either, but they made the move anyway. A great move. Kintzler was soooooo lucky last year, and still is. This will not go away. The main main main thing the newbies HAD to address, was bullpen. They choose Belisle. Lame. So lame.

Absolutely can not and will not disagree with this post. In fact, in the off season, one of my top arguments was for a top bounce back closer option to build the pen, and to help this team close out wins to help build a wining culture. (With the possibility of a flip in place as well).

 

But I have also argued for some time now that the Twins are still finishing their re-build and not a finished product yet. The new FO has been in place for only about 7 months now, and I believe this first season has been about building a culture, a new way of doing things, changes to the scouting and metric departments, and a complete review of all personnel from managers and coaches and players from the ML level on down. And I haven't changed my stance. So while I would have made a move or two they did not, I still see the plan in place.

 

Injuries and a couple poor performances have skewed the "initial" plan, but those things do, unfortunately, take place.

[Blake]

 

So far we have Boshers up for Rucinski, that should solve it.

"I sense sarcasm."

[Brock Beauchamp]

The bullpen is fine. There's nothing to see here. Move along, folks.

 

Again, I repeat, the bullpen is fine.

 

That 11 run inning was an illusion. It didn't happen.

 

The bullpen is fine.

[Brock Beauchamp]

On a more serious note, how similar is this season shaking out to look like 2015?

 

Now we get to see if the front office looks different than the old. In 2015, we all knew the bullpen was a disaster but nothing was done about it until July 31st. The 2017 front office has a chance to do something in the coming weeks and they damned well better take that chance.

[DocBauer]

On a more serious note, how similar is this season shaking out to look like 2015?

 

Now we get to see if the front office looks different than the old. In 2015, we all knew the bullpen was a disaster but nothing was done about it until July 31st. The 2017 front office has a chance to do something in the coming weeks and they damned well better take that chance.

In '15 they made ONE important move and it wasn't enough. And they waited too long to make it. They also blew it with May to the len vs Pelfrey.

 

Not sure what I want or expect this new FO to do. I'm still in the "promote and audition from within and wait until the injured guys get healthy to see what they can do" frame of mind. Am I wrong?

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

In '15 they made ONE important move and it wasn't enough. And they waited too long to make it. They also blew it with May to the len vs Pelfrey.

Not sure what I want or expect this new FO to do. I'm still in the "promote and audition from within and wait until the injured guys get healthy to see what they can do" frame of mind. Am I wrong?

It's not even June yet. The first moves they should make are from within. If those fail, then go for outside help.

 

Again, not even June yet. Nothing is available in trade anyway. It's great to talk about making an early move to shore up problems but an "early move" is July 1st, not June 1st.

[Vanimal46]

A lot of these guys being discussed for promotion (Busenitz, Bard, Turley, Curtiss) aren't exciting names... Sounds more like shifting chairs on the Titanic. I'd rather promote the players who were drafted high and supposed to have more upside (Chargois and Reed when they're healthy, Melotakis) than marginal 26-28 year olds.

[Brandon]

I think its about time for Belisle to go. I dont think Pressley has an option so to the DL. Need to trade for Neshek with Phils. He'll be a FA after tje season but i bet he would sign a 2 year 10 million extension to play at home. And try bringing up atleast one of the kids.

[old nurse]

 

It can get a lot closer to happening! KC did a pretty good job of it - Certainly the last three to almost win two consecutive world series'.... The game is changing. The last 3 innings will championships now. To shorten the game with the bullpen is key. 

 

Do we just ignore the rest of Belisle's record this year? An 8.66  guy is hardly needed at anytime at all.

2 years of Shields  and 4 for Davis cost the Royals an all star 1b, a very good young starting pitcher, a middle reliever, and a 20 million dollar contract of a now utility player.  Chagois, Burdi, Melotakis, and Reed were suposed to be the lights out bunch. So far, no luck

 

Belisle has had 3 bad games that have inflated the ERA. Do you seriously expect a reliever to be perfect every time out? For a near minimum veteran he is providing what was paid for, seviceable work.

[old nurse]

 

 

They can fix the MRP by having Kintzler there    I hope that Chargois will be the closer by year's end and that Rogers keeps it up.  That said, I'd love to see what it will take to get someone like Brad Hand from the Padres and Yusmeiro Petit from the Angels.  Not proven closers, but major improvement over Buddy Bo and Spinning head Belisle

That would be like getting Capps again. Subtraction by addition.

[notoriousgod71]

 

On a more serious note, how similar is this season shaking out to look like 2015?

 

Now we get to see if the front office looks different than the old. In 2015, we all knew the bullpen was a disaster but nothing was done about it until July 31st. The 2017 front office has a chance to do something in the coming weeks and they damned well better take that chance.

 

It had better be something infinitely better than Jepsen if they are going to make a trade.

[Platoon]

I know this is a bullpen thread, but let's not forget the starting staff, all 3 1/2 of them.

[Cap'n Piranha]

On a more serious note, how similar is this season shaking out to look like 2015?

 

Now we get to see if the front office looks different than the old. In 2015, we all knew the bullpen was a disaster but nothing was done about it until July 31st. The 2017 front office has a chance to do something in the coming weeks and they damned well better take that chance.

Couldn't disagree more. This team has holes at SP 3 through 5, at least 5 spots in the bullpen, and probably a couple of places in the lineup. We remain just as far away from championship caliber now as we were in 2015. A couple of better relievers, while helpful, fixes maybe 20% of the problem.

[Thrylos]

 

That would be like getting Capps again. Subtraction by addition.

 

Remember.  No Capps, no post-season then.  The issue with Capps was when TR renewed him, not his first time with the Twins...

[drjim]

On a more serious note, how similar is this season shaking out to look like 2015?

 

Now we get to see if the front office looks different than the old. In 2015, we all knew the bullpen was a disaster but nothing was done about it until July 31st. The 2017 front office has a chance to do something in the coming weeks and they damned well better take that chance.

I'd be pretty surprised if the front office traded for someone as good as Jepsen this year. More likely they sell.

[Mike Sixel]

The only moves this FO made were for two catchers, and this bullpen. They wanted Belisle and Breslow. They did not promote one young player. There were actual ML pitchers in free agency, this is what they chose. Many people questioned this, and others said changes would be fast. The changes were to sign other bad, old, pitchers. It might be time to change the strategy.

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

It had better be something infinitely better than Jepsen if they are going to make a trade.

Actually, Jepsen would have pretty much saved the 2015 season... had he been acquired a month earlier.

 

The 2017 Twins have more options. They can try to build from within, possibly rush a few guys, but there are moves to be made before we even hit July, much less July 31st.

[LaBombo]

This is a team that had a neutral run differential before the 8 run drubbing today.  It has one good starter and two good starts from a very nice prospect.  It has two position players who are more than one win above replacement, one of whom is a journeyman outfielder who can barely play the outfield.

 

In other words, the Twins are ALMOST EXACTLY what you would expect that a young 100-loss team which stood pat in the off season should be.  They're better, but they're still not good. And giving up a prospect or two for 30 innings of middle relief isn't going to change that.  It might make a 78 win team (Fangraphs' projection prior to the loss today) into an 80 win team.  I guess my question would be 'Why would you want to?'.

 

In any case, this is a franchise that, by its own admission, went heavy on college relievers in the draft. As disappointing as the yield has been compared to the investment, a rebuilding franchise needs to promote prospects, not trade them for meaningless wins.

[DaveW]

I know this is a bullpen thread, but let's not forget the starting staff, all 3 1/2 of them.

Santana, Berrios and santiago are a solid start to a rotation, Mejia can slot in as a #5, but I agree they need another real arm.

[rghrbek]

Yes the bullpen is a hot mess, and only getting worse.  Not sure that too many of us didn't see this coming.  

 

Also hiring Frankie V to be the bullpen coach (did he ever pitch in the bullpen?), Dougy B-ball (never understand the infatuation with him, was a nice fielding first baseman, but ended up being a little bit of a problem in the clubhouse when Justin was called up, and still seems to have a temper) why we think twins retreads are the way to success.  Also someone said we would never had the ending to the 2010 season w/o capps...really?  Rauch had two blown saves at the time of the trade with Capps..same as capps.

 

The focus should be on how our bullpen gets better.  Molly and the front office deserve most of the blame for who they took north, and who they have not promoted yet.  However, I can't help but agree with some others on this post that there is no trade to be made yet in May.  There just isn't.  Too bad Burdi is out but we need to be aggressive in promoting these college age pitchers who are only adding more time to their arms.  See who sinks..and who swims.  Pretty simple to me. 

[jimmer]

Going into today, our rotation was last in the AL in WAR, 2nd to last in FIP, 2nd to last in K/9, and last in xFIP.

[jimmer]

 

The only moves this FO made were for two catchers, and this bullpen. They wanted Belisle and Breslow. They did not promote one young player. There were actual ML pitchers in free agency, this is what they chose. Many people questioned this, and others said changes would be fast. The changes were to sign other bad, old, pitchers. It might be time to change the strategy.

sad how true this is.

[jimmer]

 

Remember.  No Capps, no post-season then.  The issue with Capps was when TR renewed him, not his first time with the Twins...

We would have been in the postseason whether we got Capps or not.  Rauch was doing the job just fine and Capps certainly wasn't the deciding factor.

[DaveW]

Going into today, our rotation was last in the AL in WAR, 2nd to last in FIP, 2nd to last in K/9, and last in xFIP.

Results are what matter.

 

Santana has continued to pitch like a 1/2, Berrios looks like a 1/2, santiago has been a fine 3.

 

Overall the rest has been a disaster, no doubt about it. But Mejia at least looks the part the past couple starts to be a #5....or even better!

 

They just need another capabale arm IMO.

[curt1965]

You know the old saying," can't make chicken salad out of chicken ................ noodle soup??"

Likewise, you better not expect to win games with guys in their mid 30's who have been cheerfully discarded by every other major league team. The Twins have been disregarding this bullpen for years: and what happened when Kansas City and now Cleveland showed what average teams could do with 'elite' pens?

Nothing! Let's sign some old guys who will give this young team some leadership and experience.

I don't think the FO or the fans expected this team would have the early success this season so far. But when winnable games are lost like the last 2 games, the inability to either develop young players or trade for them can't be hidden.

I think it's evident that the organization has no confidence in their minor league relievers. Most of the guys mentioned in all the previous posts have been around for awhile. Let's sink or swim with them- not the guys that will be gone when this team is really good!!

[howeda7]

This place never changes. Today was a train-wreck largely on the manager, but also largely due to unfortunate carry-over circumstances. 

 

All that said, we're in 1st place on May 29th and y'all are firing the manager, the pitching coach and demoting 2/3 of the bullpen all at once, because these are all totally logical things to do.

 

Let's start with DL'ing or demoting Presley and calling up one of the AA arms, and then go from there. Beslisle's leash does have to be getting short too. 

[twins_89]

Of the top tier minor league relievers most have been out all season (Jay, Chargois, and Reed have a combined 3 appearances) with the last guy in the group recently going down for the year (Burdi). The next tier is where we need to start to see some movement. Melotakis, Hildenber, Rosario, and Curtis all have been fairly good and some acceleration in promotion seems in order due to the collapse of the bullpen for the big league club.

[yarnivek1972]

A lot of these guys being discussed for promotion (Busenitz, Bard, Turley, Curtiss) aren't exciting names... Sounds more like shifting chairs on the Titanic. I'd rather promote the players who were drafted high and supposed to have more upside (Chargois and Reed when they're healthy, Melotakis) than marginal 26-28 year olds.

Melotakis is a marginal 26-28 year old.