How do we fix this so called bullpen?

[laloesch]

 

If by "not all these guys" you meant "none of these guys" you would be accurate. And putting them in the majors last year would have accomplished nothing.

 

Like i said, they should have started the process last year revamping the bullpen.  

 

And like i said it didn't mean that all of the before mentioned guys would have been ready or in place at that time (keep in mind his post did include an ETC.... so we aren't limiting ourselves to just Busenitz, Hildenberg, Baxendale, Melotakis, Curtis, Bard.  That "etc"... could have included Wheeler and Wimmers both of whom could have been plugged into the bullpen last year and gotten the process started at least.  

 

Judging from your post i guess we should just continue to stand pat and say oh well, bullpen sucks, but oh well.  That's very Ryan like.

[Taildragger8791]

 

Like i said, they should have started the process last year revamping the bullpen.  

 

And like i said it didn't mean that all of the before mentioned guys would have been ready or in place at that time (keep in mind his post did include an ETC.... so we aren't limiting ourselves to just Busenitz, Hildenberg, Baxendale, Melotakis, Curtis, Bard.  That "etc"... could have included Wheeler and Wimmers both of whom could have been plugged into the bullpen last year and gotten the process started at least.  

 

Judging from your post i guess we should just continue to stand pat and say oh well, bullpen sucks, but oh well.  That's very Ryan like.

Wimmers actually had 16 appearances with the Twins last year, but his minor league track record is pretty poor anyways. Wheeler has an ERA of 4.28 since the start of 2015. There's a reason neither of those guys have really forced their way into even this piss poor bullpen.

 

Most of the names you gave have defensible reasons for not being forced to the majors sooner:

• Busenitz was just traded to the Twins late last year and needed time to be evaluated.
• I'm not sure about Hildenberger, but as someone mentioned he may just have an obvious ceiling like Anthony Slama did. Coaches seemingly don't think he's for real.
• Baxendale doesn't have the numbers or track record to suggest he's going to succeed.
• Curtiss was in A ball last year with an ERA over 3 in a A+ (a pitcher's league even).
• Bard was also mostly in A+ ball and hasn't blown away any level he's been at.

 

I admittedly don't know why Melotakis seems to be getting slow played, that one's a mystery to me. But I haven't followed him closely.

 

Regardless, almost none of these guys are the ones who have a chance to anchor a bullpen. Most will probably flame out with a cup of coffee or hang around for a few years. The few arms we had with true top end talent were battling injuries or performance issues or were simply too young. This just seems like complaining for the sake of complaining. Truth of the matter is we don't have healthy, MLB-ready, impact talent in this system right now.

[drjim]

 

Like i said, they should have started the process last year revamping the bullpen.  

 

And like i said it didn't mean that all of the before mentioned guys would have been ready or in place at that time (keep in mind his post did include an ETC.... so we aren't limiting ourselves to just Busenitz, Hildenberg, Baxendale, Melotakis, Curtis, Bard.  That "etc"... could have included Wheeler and Wimmers both of whom could have been plugged into the bullpen last year and gotten the process started at least.  

 

Judging from your post i guess we should just continue to stand pat and say oh well, bullpen sucks, but oh well.  That's very Ryan like.

 

I would say the guys that deserved it got a call up last year.

 

I would also say the new front office failed to bring in much talent this offseason.

 

I don't think failing to give a look to guys who were hurt or not ready or frankly, not all that much of a prospect, was a mistake. Every player you referenced falls into one of these three categories.

 

And Wimmers did get a 16 game look last year. There's a reason he wasn't claimed when DFAed in the offseason.

[drjim]

 

Wimmers actually had 16 appearances with the Twins last year, but his minor league track record is pretty poor anyways. Wheeler has an ERA of 4.28 since the start of 2015. There's a reason neither of those guys have really forced their way into even this piss poor bullpen.

 

Most of the names you gave have defensible reasons for not being forced to the majors sooner:

• Busenitz was just traded to the Twins late last year and needed time to be evaluated.
• I'm not sure about Hildenberger, but as someone mentioned he may just have an obvious ceiling like Anthony Slama did. Coaches seemingly don't think he's for real.
• Baxendale doesn't have the numbers or track record to suggest he's going to succeed.
• Curtiss was in A ball last year with an ERA over 3 in a A+ (a pitcher's league even).
• Bard was also mostly in A+ ball and hasn't blown away any level he's been at.

 

I admittedly don't know why Melotakis seems to be getting slow played, that one's a mystery to me. But I haven't followed him closely.

 

Regardless, almost none of these guys are the ones who have a chance to anchor a bullpen. Most will probably flame out with a cup of coffee or hang around for a few years. The few arms we had with true top end talent were battling injuries or performance issues or were simply too young. This just seems like complaining for the sake of complaining. Truth of the matter is we don't have healthy, MLB-ready, impact talent in this system right now.

 

Melotakis was working back from TJ last year.

[laloesch]

 

Melotakis was working back from TJ last year.

 

And so was wimmers a 

 

I would say the guys that deserved it got a call up last year.

 

I would also say the new front office failed to bring in much talent this offseason.

 

I don't think failing to give a look to guys who were hurt or not ready or frankly, not all that much of a prospect, was a mistake. Every player you referenced falls into one of these three categories.

 

And Wimmers did get a 16 game look last year. There's a reason he wasn't claimed when DFAed in the offseason.

 

Well to be perfectly fair i didn't reference those players originally, LAVikes did.  I just made the general point that revamping the bullpen should have started in earnest before 2017 but i'll let that slide.

[Mr. Brooks]

There are teams that use AA/AAA starters as RPs their first taste in teh majors, teams that have a significantly better track record than MN in developing pitching (Cardinals, for example)....I have no idea if they SHOULD do that with Romero or not, but dismissing it out of hand seems odd to me, given that we've seen it work.

Sure, when a guy is ready for MLB but there isn't room in the rotation.

We have room in the rotation. If Romero is ready, put him in the rotation, not the bullpen.

 

The post I was responding to read (in fact said explicitly) to move him to the bullpen permanently. I can't get behind that.

[Mike Sixel]

In case you missed it, this is what the FO continues to think of the minors:

 

http://twinsdaily.com/topic/26137-kam-mickolio-called-up-to-aaa-rochester/

 

[USAFChief]

I hope one lesson we've learned from this is that "blocking" prospects on this team is rarely the issue some think it is. There were 4-5 minor leaguers being penciled in to save the 2017 bullpen and pretty much all of those options have cratered only 2 months into the season, leaving us with nothing. Pitching injuries and prospect development is just too much of a minefield to pinpoint when guys will be ready and able to help. I'd rather build depth from every source and let prospects force their way onto the roster. You can always make room and make trades if you find yourself with an embarrassment of riches.

This cannot be said enough. We're on year three of "the embarrassing riches of minor league bullpen talent" which is often given as a reason not to add major league talent to the pen.

 

It actually applies to virtually every position on the field, but partcularly to the pen, where there is actual talent available every winter.

 

Go get major league talent whenever/wherever you can. If a minor leaguer forces his way into the picture, great! Too many good players has never, ever been a problem in the history of baseball.

[Mike Sixel]

 

This cannot be said enough. We're on year three of "the embarrassing riches of minor league bullpen talent" which is often given as a reason not to add major league talent to the pen.

It actually applies to virtually every position on the field, but partcularly to the pen, where there is actual talent available every winter.

 

It's also why they can't trade them, they are too valuable to trade.....

[h2oface]

 

2 years of Shields  and 4 for Davis cost the Royals an all star 1b, a very good young starting pitcher, a middle reliever, and a 20 million dollar contract of a now utility player.  

 

Belisle has had 3 bad games that have inflated the ERA. Do you seriously expect a reliever to be perfect every time out? For a near minimum veteran he is providing what was paid for, seviceable work.

 

The price to pay for a World Series Championship, and nearly two!? Damn. Such travesty. Sounds like a more than fair trade to me. Nothing wrong for a fair trade. They are the best kind. So..... for the first sentence, I give you a massive "so what!"

 

I don't know why you would make the assumption that I would feel that I might expect a reliever to be perfect every time out. Very assumptive. I don't feel Belisle is serviceable. Perhaps I set my sites higher than you. 

[jimmer]

 

The price to pay for a World Series Championship, and nearly two!? Damn. Such travesty. Sounds like a more than fair trade to me. Nothing wrong for a fair trade. They are the best kind. So..... for the first sentence, I give you a massive "so what!"

 

I don't know why you would make the assumption that I would feel that I might expect a reliever to be perfect every time out. Very assumptive. I don't feel Belisle is serviceable. Perhaps I set my sites higher than you. 

It was a good trade for KC when it happened, it turned out well for them, and I'm sure they'd do it ll over again.

[DaveW]

Sounds like Perkins could be back in 4-6 weeks?

[drjim]

Sounds like Perkins could be back in 4-6 weeks?

It's like making a trade.

[h2oface]

 

Sounds like Perkins could be back in 4-6 weeks?

 

More bad news, eh? 

 

[beckmt]

I was on the bandwagon early on to sign Holland.  Front office is still evaluating. Still feel that Molitor has overriding high level support and he is calling the shots.  Otherwise would have fired him already.  Reason FO has not brought relievers up is that Molitor will not use them.  He is the problem, it is time to move on.

[drjim]

 

I was on the bandwagon early on to sign Holland.  Front office is still evaluating. Still feel that Molitor has overriding high level support and he is calling the shots.  Otherwise would have fired him already.  Reason FO has not brought relievers up is that Molitor will not use them.  He is the problem, it is time to move on.

 

I think the reason the front office hasn't brought up any relievers is there really aren't any worthwhile to bring up. If Molitor had better talent I assure you he would use it. He does want to win games.

 

I don't understand the need to explain things with a larger dramatic conspiracy.

[drjim]

Rucinski or Wheeler perhpas would have gotten out of Monday's game without giving up 6 runs in two innings, but that doesn't mean we should turn them into something they aren't. Rucinski is a marginal big leaguer and Wheeler is org depth.

[Mike Sixel]

 

Rucinski or Wheeler perhpas would have gotten out of Monday's game without giving up 6 runs in two innings, but that doesn't mean we should turn them into something they aren't. Rucinski is a marginal big leaguer and Wheeler is org depth.

 

Agreed on that! 

[laloesch]

 

I think the reason the front office hasn't brought up any relievers is there really aren't any worthwhile to bring up. If Molitor had better talent I assure you he would use it. He does want to win games.

 

I don't understand the need to explain things with a larger dramatic conspiracy.

 

This is such a blanket statement.  There are other options they just haven't tried them all yet.  I can think of a few: Eades, Slegers, Hurlbut, Hildenberger.....they don't have to all be in AAA either. 

[Teddy]

It's pretty sad when the backup catcher has the team's best ERA after three appearances.

[Mike Sixel]

 

It's pretty sad when the backup catcher has the team's best ERA after three appearances.

 

jinx.

[drjim]

 

This is such a blanket statement.  There are other options they just haven't tried them all yet.  I can think of a few: Eades, Slegers, Hurlbut, Hildenberger.....they don't have to all be in AAA either. 

 

Those names don't do a whole lot for me (or the front office I imagine). I'm not necessarily opposed to bringing them up and giving a shot, but really not going to make a difference.

 

Meolotakis might be ok, and sure give him a shot, but the only potential difference maker in my mind is Romero, and I doubt they put him in the pen this early in the year (even though it's what I would do).

[yarnivek1972]

Pressly, Belisle and Wheeler out.  Busenitz, Hildenberger and Turley in.  See what happens.  If it doesn't help in 3 weeks, try something else.  Doing nothing is the incorrect play.

[drjim]

On the plus side, Kintzler and Rogers should now be well rested for the next several games.

[yarnivek1972]

Yohan Pino is an intriguing guy too. Not sure if he would be bullpen material or possibly a starter to take Gibson's spot. But, he's been around the block a couple hundred times. He could be a potential stopgap until prospects get healthy and/or ready.

[Riverbrian]

They have no choice but to audition

[spinowner]

 

This is why you go after the guys like Neshek & Benoit.

Old borderline relievers on the worst team in baseball. I see essentially no difference compared to the likes of Belisle and Breslow.

[spinowner]

 

Sounds like Perkins could be back in 4-6 weeks?

I'll believe it when I see it.

[spinowner]

 

Yohan Pino is an intriguing guy too. Not sure if he would be bullpen material or possibly a starter to take Gibson's spot. But, he's been around the block a couple hundred times. He could be a potential stopgap until prospects get healthy and/or ready.

Last year someone referred to Pino as a right-handed Andrew Albers. Talk about damning with faint praise...

[yarnivek1972]

Last year someone referred to Pino as a right-handed Andrew Albers. Talk about damning with faint praise...

I was thinking Carl Willis. As in the famous quote "He'll take the ball".

 

I seriously wonder if he was really "hurt" all this time or essentially just waiting in the wings for an opportunity to pitch. He was sent to AA, made one 3 IP start which went well and started tonight for the Red Wings. 5 2/3 IP, 6 H, 3 R, 8 K. Only 88 pitches.

 

 

Like I said, I don't know how effective he might be at the MLB level, but I suspect he would throw strikes, work fast and eat innings. Qualities one might seek in a long man/mop up reliever.