Morris on Mauer

[TheGiantTeapot]

Yes, I know... we're all tired of Joe being crucified for his shortcomings. But I think Morris nicely summarizes an average fan's frustration.

 

http://www.startribune.com/jack-morris-mauer-should-consider-changing-his-approach/419279644/

[Willihammer]

Mauer has 3 walks with RISP. He also has 2 hits. He has made an out 3 times in 8 opportunities.

 

Last year he had 33 walks and 31 hits in 140 PAs with RISP. His OPS was .838.

 

In 2015 his OPS was .922.

 

In 2014 it was .933.

 

This idea that Mauer doesn't perform with runners on base, that walks are some kind of failure, is nitpicking to a degree that instantly discredits you IMO. If every player did as well with RISP as Mauer the Twins would score 1000 runs a season.

[Brock Beauchamp]

Eh. The article would be a lot better if it simply didn't talk about walks at all, even in RISP-y situations.

 

Walks are good. End of story.

 

But there's a good article to be written about Joe's refusal to swing at the first pitch and/or how he hasn't changed his approach in a game of defensive shifts.

[djvang]

Mauer's approach should have changed when he discovered that those fly balls that landed in the first two rows in LF at the Dome were being caught on the warning track at Target Field. It should have changed when the opposing left fielders started playing 15 feet off the line to take away those fly ball doubles. It should have changed when they gave him almost all of RF to hit to. It should have changed when he realized, or maybe he hasn't,  that he doesn't have MVP talent anymore. But, it won't change.

[laloesch]

 

Mauer's approach should have changed when he discovered that those fly balls that landed in the first two rows in LF at the Dome were being caught on the warning track at Target Field. It should have changed when the opposing left fielders started playing 15 feet off the line to take away those fly ball doubles. It should have changed when they gave him almost all of RF to hit to. It should have changed when he realized, or maybe he hasn't,  that he doesn't have MVP talent anymore. But, it won't change.

 

Take a deep breath...only two more seasons (including this one).

[DrNeau]

I don't care about the first pitch as much as he is taking consecutive fastball strikes with runners in scoring position. 3-2 game today on the road,  5th inning, 1 out, guy on first base, and... Joe (our 3-hole hitter) is thinking bunt. Wow. 

 

2 outfielders shaded far left, and one in right center field, and he hits the ball to left. Runners on 1st and 2nd and no outs and he is hitting the ball to left. What? Even a flare or fly ball to right can be problematic for the defense and he's hitting to left field. Guy takes a fat fastball then swings at off-speed. He needs to regroup; this cannot continue. 

[Richie the Rally Goat]

Eh. The article would be a lot better if it simply didn't talk about walks at all, even in RISP-y situations.

 

Walks are good. End of story.

 

But there's a good article to be written about Joe's refusal to swing at the first pitch and/or how he hasn't changed his approach in a game of defensive shifts.

i also think that there's a Mauer article to be written about the 4th hitter coming to bat with no runners on base far more frequently than have 2 or more runners on base.

 

While I absolutely think Dozier's on base plus slugging plays up better as 4 hitter and Mauers on base plus nothing else plays up better as 1 hitter, it doesn't matter that much.

[USAFChief]

Eh. The article would be a lot better if it simply didn't talk about walks at all, even in RISP-y situations.

Walks are good. End of story.

But there's a good article to be written about Joe's refusal to swing at the first pitch and/or how he hasn't changed his approach in a game of defensive shifts.

Generally agree, except all walks aren't "good." Not all OBP is created equally. "Empty OBP" can be an accurate descriptor just as much as "empty batting average." Runs win games, not base runners.

 

When Mauer refuses to attempt to drive in a run against a RH pitcher, leaving that job to a lesser RH hitter behind him, in the long run he's not helping win games.

[TheLeviathan]

A hit and a walk are not equal.  I think it's worth saying that because people seem to treat them the same because they have the same impact on OBP.

 

But I also don't want Mauer to swing for the sake of it either.  I think all of us who have watched the man play can say there is room for more aggression in his game, but that ship has long sailed.

[bird]

I also don't think it's fair to his critics to characterize their criticism as a crucifixion. When it comes to the issue of his overall lack of adjustments, and his refusal to adapt his approach situationally, I actually think the criticism has been mild on the part of fans and vapid nothingness when it comes to our mainstream media types. I'd agree, however, that perhaps the criticism can occasionally get out of hand regarding other perceived deficiencies, but that's limited to a small number of commenters from what I believe I've observed.

[70charger]

When Mauer refuses to attempt to drive in a run against a RH pitcher, leaving that job to a lesser RH hitter behind him, in the long run he's not helping win games.

"A lesser hitter behind him"?

 

How do we know that? Isn't Sanó hitting behind him? Clearly at this point Mauer's job is to play up his last elite offensive skill: on base. Anything else is just trying to force it.

[flags]

 

Generally agree, except all walks aren't "good." Not all OBP is created equally. "Empty OBP" can be an accurate descriptor just as much as "empty batting average." Runs win games, not base runners.

When Mauer refuses to attempt to drive in a run against a RH pitcher, leaving that job to a lesser RH hitter behind him, in the long run he's not helping win games.

 

is he really refusing? if the alternative is a groundball out to second, i'll take the walk every time

 

[USAFChief]

is he really refusing? if the alternative is a groundball out to second, i'll take the walk every time

Why is that ok?

 

One of the arguments would be that by being unwilling to alter his swing and/or approach, he is indeed refusing.

 

Many here demand Dozier and Sano learn to "use the whole field." Learn to hit opposite field. Shouldn't the same apply in reverse? Shouldn't Mauer use the whole field? When the opposing outfield plays an exaggerated reverse shift, and shallow at that, I don't think your approach is optimal. Ditto when the opposing pitcher is confident you'll give him struck one.

 

He's hit in RBI spots his entire career, but never driven in runs. Some are ok with that. I'm not.

[Brock Beauchamp]

Generally agree, except all walks aren't "good." Not all OBP is created equally. "Empty OBP" can be an accurate descriptor just as much as "empty batting average." Runs win games, not base runners.

 

When Mauer refuses to attempt to drive in a run against a RH pitcher, leaving that job to a lesser RH hitter behind him, in the long run he's not helping win games.

I never said walks and hits are equal, I said "walks are good".

 

And they are. It's never bad to put yourself on base and avoid an out. Are better outcomes possible? Sure. A home run is always better, as is a double.

 

But my ability to criticize a hitter who tries really hard to avoid an out is limited. That doesn't make the hitter perfect but it means they're not hurting the team and are contributing in some way.

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

i also think that there's a Mauer article to be written about the 4th hitter coming to bat with no runners on base far more frequently than have 2 or more runners on base.

While I absolutely think Dozier's on base plus slugging plays up better as 4 hitter and Mauers on base plus nothing else plays up better as 1 hitter, it doesn't matter that much.

Agreed on both counts. While I struggle to see myself ordering the lineup the way Molitor has this season, this lineup is not without logic.

 

In fact, it's one of the more progressive lineups i've seen in baseball. Putting a high OBP, no power guy in cleanup is something sabr people have been talking about for awhile but I've never seen anyone actually do it.

 

And thus far, it's pretty hard to argue with the results.

[Brock Beauchamp]

Looking over the past four seasons of play, Mauer has a batting average around .320 and an OBP of almost .470 with runners in scoring position.

 

That's rather incredible, actually.

[killertwinfan]

The context of the article is a little problematic.  If you change the context to, you are paying a guy $23M for 49 RBI's,  then Jack's comments resonate well. In my opinion,  you can talk all day about what what you would like Mauer to do, but the reality is the what the Twins do is far more important.  For whatever reason, our leadership feels it is wise to play a guy based on what you need rather than what they are capable of. Mauer is not capable of 100 RBI any more, Buxton has not proven himself in the majors, and there are several other examples of this mentality.  Don't put Mauer in the 4 hole. Give other batters, the right ones,  chances against lefties.  Keep Buxton at the bottom of the order and for god sakes make Perkins prove himself at triple A before you bring him back.  Please stop being hopeful and start being more pragmatic.  

[Brock Beauchamp]

For whatever reason, our leadership feels it is wise to play a guy based on what you need rather than what they are capable of.

This isn't fair or true. There are rumblings within the sabr crowd about the importance of and the role of a "cleanup" hitter. And there isn't universal acceptance that the traditional cleanup hitter is the correct person to put in that role.

 

Though I think everyone can agree Mauer should slug higher than he does to be optimal in that role.

 

What I find most frustrating about all of this is that Dozier is such a good fit for cleanup and Mauer for leading off.

[killertwinfan]

 

This isn't fair or true. There are rumblings within the sabr crowd about the importance of and the role of a "cleanup" hitter. And there isn't universal acceptance that the traditional cleanup hitter is the correct person to put in that role.

 

Though I think everyone can agree Mauer should slug higher than he does to be optimal in that role.

 

What I find most frustrating about all of this is that Dozier is such a good fit for cleanup and Mauer for leading off.

If I used the word acceptable instead of wise, would it be fair or true?  I am not sure if you are watching these guys postpone decisions that really should have been made already.  My fear is the motivation is that they are hoping for circumstances to arise to make the decision easier. Rip the bandaid off already.  They are afraid they will be ripped for their decision. Reality check, they are going to get ripped, period.  

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

If I used the word acceptable instead of wise, would it be fair or true?  I am not sure if you are watching these guys postpone decisions that really should have been made already.  My fear is the motivation is that they are hoping for circumstances to arise to make the decision easier. Rip the bandaid off already.  They are afraid they will be ripped for their decision. Reality check, they are going to get ripped, period.  

I don't think they're afraid of anything, I think they're operating above a level we understand.

 

As I've said from day one, what happened leading up to the season matters far less to me than how the front office reacts to things that do not work. That was easily my biggest gripe with the old front office; the thinking that led to keeping around half the bullpen pieces when they were well past their expiration date in June and July.

[Joe A. Preusser]

Looking over the past four seasons of play, Mauer has a batting average around .320 and an OBP of almost .470 with runners in scoring position.

 

That's rather incredible, actually.

I don't understand how this post doesn't immediately end this debate.

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

I don't understand how this post doesn't immediately end this debate.

Yeah. The guy is approaching getting on base 50% of the time in RISP situations.

 

That's amazing. I mean, just ****ing amazing.

[bird]

 

Yeah. The guy is approaching getting on base 50% of the time in RISP situations.

 

That's amazing. I mean, just ****ing amazing.

 

And this explains why the criticism has been mild. But the criticism is not unwarranted. It's an emptier OPB than us critics believe he's athletically capable of delivering. Most of us get that, absent a pitching change, a batter in a RISP situation often is dealing with a pitcher having control problems, so maybe his walk totals are less problematic. And most of us get that a pitching chang to a lefty happens, which makes his OBP more impressive.

 

But still...when Kirby Puckett was up in RISP situations you felt static emanate from the damn TV. I go get a soda and scurry back for the 0-1 count.

[gunnarthor]

 

Mauer has 3 walks with RISP. He also has 2 hits. He has made an out 3 times in 8 opportunities.

 

Last year he had 33 walks and 31 hits in 140 PAs with RISP. His OPS was .838.

 

 

The problem is, that's not a great number.  Over 110 players were better than that last year by OPS or wRC+ or wOBA.  And if you compare him only to other #3/4 hitters, it's even worse.  All players hit better with men on base.  

[Guest]

Since A-Rod was drafted 1-1 in 1993, Mauer has the most WAR of any 1-1 pick. At this point, the old gray Mauer just ain't what he used to be, but two sets of management still think he's their best choice for playing time, based on doing what he does and not what he did or could do. Sure, it would be great if he could be a 5 WAR player again, but it's sad how much rancor and bitterness people seem to have for him.

[DaveW]

I'm usually not a huge fan of the "intangibles" factor, but I think one of the best thing Joe is doing this year is "showing" Sano the value of patience, pitch selection and taking what the pitchers give you (aka not pulling everything)

 

I don't think it's a coincidence that Sanos k rate is dropping and is hitting more balls (and a couple Hr) up the middle.

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

And this explains why the criticism has been mild. But the criticism is not unwarranted. It's an emptier OPB than us critics believe he's athletically capable of delivering. Most of us get that, absent a pitching change, a batter in a RISP situation often is dealing with a pitcher having control problems, so maybe his walk totals are less problematic. And most of us get that a pitching chang to a lefty happens, which makes his OBP more impressive.

 

But still...when Kirby Puckett was up in RISP situations you felt static emanate from the damn TV. I go get a soda and scurry back for the 0-1 count.

I get that but I'm not going for warm and fuzzies from a hitter, I want performance no matter how it comes.

 

And that RISP OBP is jaw-dropping. That doesn't mean Mauer is perfect nor does it mean he can't occasionally swing at the first ****ing pitch but it means I can't criticize the guy too much, either.

[gunnarthor]

 

I don't understand how this post doesn't immediately end this debate.

Because it's not completely in context.  Yes, his OBP is 6th in that time frame but 25 players are above .400 OBP.  His wOBA is 45th and his wRC+ is 52.  He's more Nick Castellenos in those situations than Miguel Cabrera.  

[Mike Sixel]

You know, Joey Votto has decided to be more aggressive this year. Great hitters can learn new tricks. I have never believed Mauer was interested in change. that's been my issue. I have no idea if it is true or not, but it sure appears true. 

 

Now, some might say "if it ain't broke, don't fix it". That's about as a bad a philosophy as you can have. You should always be trying to be better. That is especially true of an aging athlete whose physical abilities are changing. 

[DaveW]

Being 6th in all of baseball is a pretty damn good thing. No?