Trevor May Over Jose Berrios In Rotation?

[HitInAPinch]

I agree with S.   

 

Berrios has done all he can in the MiLB.  He got off to a slow start at AAA, then improved.  A lot.

 

Correct me if I'm wrong on that point

 

So what if Berrios' started off poorly in the MLB?  It's called development.  The Twins should follow the same path as the Cardinals:  start those potential SP's in the bullpen and let them get their feet wet, work with them on what they need to be successful at the next level.  I don't believe there's much to gain in sending Berrios back to AAA, other than reps. 

 

On this starting staff, I personally don't see anyone as a mortal lock.  Santana would be the only one close to that category.  Which means he should be traded while there's still some value to be had.

 

May is in the rotation.  At this point, everyone should know why.....

 

In my mystical, magical word, the starting staff would be:

Trevor May

Adalberto Mejia

Ervin Santana

TBD

TBD

 

2 we need to see, 1 who has earned it, and 2 where many need to prove it.

 

 

 

[beckmt]

I do not see the love affair with Gibson.  I see starting rotation as Santiago and Santana and the rest have to prove it.  Gibson needs a great infield defense, Twins do not have it.  Maybe they can get better from him, but I would make him prove it.  Great candidate to trade when someone else plans go do with injury or plane bad pitching.  If these pitchers do not have to earn jobs we are back where we where last year.  Believe May with be a starter with the Twins, he needs a steady routine with his back issues.

[iTwins]

Opening day - I'd go with May. I think it'll ultimately be a lot of consternation for nothing - as Berrios will likely see a return to the Majors by mid-May (month, not Trevor  ). 

 

Although - I'm not as certain as some are regarding Hughes. I'd be delighted if he returned to full health and could contribute as a starter, but I'm hesitant to write him in as a lock until we can see where he's at velocity wise. 

[lukeduke1980]

I don't see May going back to the bullpen with the injury concerns, so I think he would be a solid #5.  

 

If Berrios dominates Spring Training it wouldn't be awful to have him start the year as a long reliever to allow him to get a little more comfortable in the big leagues.  Last year Tonkin was the long reliever and that wore on him.  

[Bill Brown69]

I doubt that all 6 will come out of ST healthy so I am not going to concern myself with the decision yet. I just hope that 5 come out fully healthy.

[zenser]

Are they going to limit Barrios' innings at all this year or is he supposed to have a full work load?

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

Are they going to limit Barrios' innings at all this year or is he supposed to have a full work load?

He should have a full workload. He pitched 170 innings last season. He should have crossed 180 except for the part where he was terrible and had a ton of short outings with Minnesota.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

Are they going to limit Barrios' innings at all this year or is he supposed to have a full work load?

There should be no real limit.  Berrios threw 166 two years ago, and 171 last year -- and given the number of batters he faced in MLB, it was probably the equivalent of 180.

 

Obviously he's not going to rack up 220 innings, but that will be more due to effectiveness and pitch limits. He should be able to start April through September, though.

[zchrz]

I think it will be the 4 vets + May to start, could be to showcase all of them and try and wring some value out in a trade if they are throwing well.  I personally would have Berrios in there and would not hesitate to call the next kid up when they earn it. The youth movement needs to happen .

[crapforks]

There is a lot of talk about Berrios not having any business pitching in AAA. I get that. Totally. BUT, if the Twins staff saw something he need to work on or fix, then maybe a handful of starts down there wouldn't be the worst thing. If he breaks camp and has the same results as last season, what good is that for anyone, team or player?

Berrios has thrown 552 innings in the minor leagues with a sub 3 ERA and a 9.6 k/9, with improvement at every level. In almost every case I would be out there clamoring for the guy to sink or swim in the majors. But I want Jose Berrios to be pitching at a high level for the Twins for the next half-decade and another run with the big league team that resembles last year's could be quite damaging. The talent is there. No pitcher on this roster has higher upside, so he isn't blocked. But if he isn't right; if he is doing what he did last season, I'd rather he rack up a few more starts in AAA. 

[TheLeviathan]

 

I do not see the love affair with Gibson.  I see starting rotation as Santiago and Santana and the rest have to prove it.  Gibson needs a great infield defense, Twins do not have it.  Maybe they can get better from him, but I would make him prove it.  Great candidate to trade when someone else plans go do with injury or plane bad pitching.  If these pitchers do not have to earn jobs we are back where we where last year.  Believe May with be a starter with the Twins, he needs a steady routine with his back issues.

 

I don't think there is a Gibson love-fest, just the acceptance of reality.  As long as he's healthy, he's not in danger of losing his spot.  At least not for a few months.

[DocBauer]

1) I want Berries in the rotation. So young and a numbers crunch if Hughes is healthy, I could get him in AAA to begin the season as things sort themselves out. I'd rather see him start consistently than pitch out of the pen.

 

Anyone read the article about Berrios on the Twins website? Talked about a change in his delivery for consistency and to hide his pitches better and how comfortable he's become with it.

 

2) I absolutely don't get the hate on Gibson. He debuts in 2013 with poor results. Not totally unexpected for a rookie, and one perhaps tiring in his first post surgery season. He was solid in '14, missing rookie status by 1/3 of an inning. He improved in virtually every category in '15. 2016 he was injured and struggled on a 103 loss team. Suddenly he is a bum?

 

I just don't get it.

[Riverbrian]

 

1) I want Berries in the rotation. So young and a numbers crunch if Hughes is healthy, I could get him in AAA to begin the season as things sort themselves out. I'd rather see him start consistently than pitch out of the pen.

Anyone read the article about Berrios on the Twins website? Talked about a change in his delivery for consistency and to hide his pitches better and how comfortable he's become with it.

2) I absolutely don't get the hate on Gibson. He debuts in 2013 with poor results. Not totally unexpected for a rookie, and one perhaps tiring in his first post surgery season. He was solid in '14, missing rookie status by 1/3 of an inning. He improved in virtually every category in '15. 2016 he was injured and struggled on a 103 loss team. Suddenly he is a bum?

I just don't get it.

 

I don't hate him... I'm praying that he puts it together. 

 

But that clock has to be ticking like Marisa Tomei's Foot on the porch. 

 

He's now 29 and his best year was kind of above average in 2015 and every other year would have to be considered below average. In my eyes... the only way he looks good is if you compare him to other Twins pitchers.

 

I admire your support of Gibby and I will even join you in that support because we need him to get the job done...  but... I will stop at the water's edge if he struggles again because he can't remain in the rotation if he's spitting out a 5 plus ERA. Vets can't be allowed to spit out 5's anymore. 

 

The Twins have some depth so 2017 needs to be a year to cull under performance on the mound. 

 

If Gibby turns it around... I'll be able to say that I was there with DocBauer all along but Man...  I'll bolt when it goes bad. 

[Shaitan]

It's interesting that almost every poster has a different lock and a different goat. 

 

And that says a lot about the uncertainty in this rotation.

 

I'd rather it was both May and Berrios, but injuries or whatnot will likely sort it out. My guess is Berrios to AAA where he later gets a spot start call-up and never looks back.

[Dantes929]

To me writing in Hughes as a lock for the rotation is like writing in Perkins as a lock for reliever.   Ok, not exactly like that but pretty close.  If everyone is throwing well in ST then the locks should be the guys with the upside.    To me that is Santana, Berrios, May, Gibson, in that order and then probably Santiago since many like to have a lefty in the rotation.    Out of all the pitchers in our history how many have had season ending surgery of any kind and come back right away at their best.   I like Hughes but make him average at least 92 for a while before even considering him for a spot.  I am willing to accept that the problem was the rib thing but then it should be easy to prove he has his velocity back and after losing this much time expecting Hughes to have the same pinpoint control and movement he had three years ago is like saying if Tiger suddenly didn't have back spasms he should be a favorite for the Masters.    Ok, not exactly like that but pretty close.

[Brock Beauchamp]

To me writing in Hughes as a lock for the rotation is like writing in Perkins as a lock for reliever. Ok, not exactly like that but pretty close. If everyone is throwing well in ST then the locks should be the guys with the upside. To me that is Santana, Berrios, May, Gibson, in that order and then probably Santiago since many like to have a lefty in the rotation. Out of all the pitchers in our history how many have had season ending surgery of any kind and come back right away at their best. I like Hughes but make him average at least 92 for a while before even considering him for a spot. I am willing to accept that the problem was the rib thing but then it should be easy to prove he has his velocity back and after losing this much time expecting Hughes to have the same pinpoint control and movement he had three years ago is like saying if Tiger suddenly didn't have back spasms he should be a favorite for the Masters. Ok, not exactly like that but pretty close.

If Hughes is throwing 90 and makes the rotation on opening day, I will be quite disappointed in the front office and coaching staff.

[FormerMinnasotan]

1) I want Berries in the rotation. So young and a numbers crunch if Hughes is healthy, I could get him in AAA to begin the season as things sort themselves out. I'd rather see him start consistently than pitch out of the pen.

 

Anyone read the article about Berrios on the Twins website? Talked about a change in his delivery for consistency and to hide his pitches better and how comfortable he's become with it.

 

2) I absolutely don't get the hate on Gibson. He debuts in 2013 with poor results. Not totally unexpected for a rookie, and one perhaps tiring in his first post surgery season. He was solid in '14, missing rookie status by 1/3 of an inning. He improved in virtually every category in '15. 2016 he was injured and struggled on a 103 loss team. Suddenly he is a bum?

 

I just don't get it.

I read the article where Berrios said he was comfortable with his new delivery. Another reason I want to give him a shot is in the same article he admitted to being to wound up last year and now that he has been up to the Bigs he is more confident and relaxed. I feel to just banish a kid who sounds far more ready back to AAA is silly. Shoot even Trevor May was just about as God awful in his rookie debut going 3-6 with a 7.8ish ERA and as poor command and control as Berrios had last year. Just saying, the Twins had more patience with May than they apparently have with Berrios.

[kengrosz]

 Berrios has nothing left to prove in AAA. Or can he learn not to tipping his chanceup? Maybe we can flip Hector or Ervin after a good start, to have both Trevor an JB in the Rotation... for the next 10 years

 

[Boom Boom]

The impression that I get is that Molitor thinks that May is a reliever only. With the same manager I expect the same role for May.

 

The fifth starter will not be Berrios.

 

So I guess it's Haley or Vogelsong.

[Otto von Ballpark]

Haley? When was the last time a Rule 5 pick made a starting rotation? I could see him getting a couple spot starts through the year, but I would imagine he almost no chance of making the opening day rotation.

[nytwinsfan]

 

The impression that I get is that Molitor thinks that May is a reliever only. With the same manager I expect the same role for May.
 

 

Based on what? If Molitor keeps May in the bullpen (which I don't think he will do) he should be fired IMO. 

[bird]

 

I think it will be the 4 vets + May to start, could be to showcase all of them and try and wring some value out in a trade if they are throwing well.  I personally would have Berrios in there and would not hesitate to call the next kid up when they earn it. The youth movement needs to happen 

 

 

Yeah, I'm really hoping everyone who enters the season as a "lock" is on display with plans to dangle them at the deadline and take any overpay they can get. As far as I'm concerned, trade all four of them if you can, but don't settle for garbage. Go for low minors talent that is discounted because of how far off they are from MLB. Hopefully they extract legitimate prospects for at least a couple of them. And then factoring in the inevitability of stints on the DL for at least three guys, I'm not particularly worried that Berrios and May are going to be denied an opportunity to scuffle through the season in the rotation for most of the year. I guess I'd be more interested in making sure the five more exciting prospects at AA are considered for aggressive advancement and not blocked to any great extent by the likes of Hurlbut, Vogelsong, Haley, Slegers, Wheeler, et al.

[King]

Both of them should be in the rotation. Duffey as well but if not I'd rather he be starting in AAA than in the bullpen.

[mikelink45]

I am in the minority - I say Berrios.  Since the question did not cover the other choices most of which I would get rid of I will stay with Berrios vs. May.  Berrios has shown what he can do in the minors.  Doing it again proves nothing.  We pay for coaches to help athletes reach their potential.  Time for the pitching coach to step forward.  Berrios is the future and while we have been debating May to start of relieve he is actually aging too.   At this stage I am going to be consistent with what I have been stating all winter - go young and make it work.  If you want May to replace one of the older guys I am all for that. 

[Danchat]

 

Haley? When was the last time a Rule 5 pick made a starting rotation? I could see him getting a couple spot starts through the year, but I would imagine he almost no chance of making the opening day rotation.

Yeah, I don't really get how some have been advocating for a guy who's never pitched in AAA to start in the rotation. It sounds like a recipe for disaster.

[brvama]

I'd put May In the rotation and have Berrios start in AAA. Since JB has changed his arm slot it would make sense to get some reps in Rochester and call him up when needed or by performance. Of course, he may be needed to start the season with injuries of the others. BTW, is he pitching in the World games? If so, I'd be even more inclined to send him to AAA to get some work.

[ashbury]

Yeah, I don't really get how some have been advocating for a guy who's never pitched in AAA to start in the rotation. It sounds like a recipe for disaster.

Haley had a successful half-season (14 starts) in Pawtucket in 2016.

[Shaitan]

 

 Berrios has nothing left to prove in AAA. Or can he learn not to tipping his chanceup? Maybe we can flip Hector or Ervin after a good start, to have both Trevor an JB in the Rotation... for the next 10 years

 

True, but he hasn't proven himself in MLB and that's where it matters.

[Boom Boom]

Based on what? If Molitor keeps May in the bullpen (which I don't think he will do) he should be fired IMO.

Based on May never really being considered for the rotation in 2016... and also based on May losing his spot in the rotation to Mike Pelfrey in 2015.

[nytwinsfan]

 

Based on May never really being considered for the rotation in 2016... and also based on May losing his spot in the rotation to Mike Pelfrey in 2015.

Which both obviously turned out to be terrible decisions in retrospect. So obviously terrible, in fact, that likely even Molitor realizes and acknowledges it, and so obviously terrible, in fact, that SURELY the new front office, who has no need to justify themselves regarding the May decision in the past, realizes it.