Trevor May Over Jose Berrios In Rotation?

[John Bonnes]

Derek Wetmore at 1500 ESPN wrote today about the spring training battles he sees. He sees the rotation as almost set with Santana, Hughes, Santiago and Gibson. But he predicts the 5th spot will go to Trevor May over Jose Berrios. And he thinks it's the right call:

 

 

Trevor May, in my opinion, needs to be included in the starting rotation, and there’s any number of names also hoping to be one of the final five standing in early April when the season gets rolling. 

 

Let’s toss some more names into the hat. How about J.O. Berrios? Tyler Duffey? Justin Haley, Adalberto Mejia, Ryan Vogelsong and Nick Tepesch? Is it possible the starting competition goes 11 deep?

 

I agree with him on the four locks. Who do you want for the fifth spot?

[Thrylos]

 

I agree with him on the four locks. Who do you want for the fifth spot?

 

May.

 

Matter of fact I am not convinced that Santiago has won a job yet over Vogelsong and Haley...

[Brandon Warne]

 

May.

 

Matter of fact I am not convinced that Santiago has won a job yet over Vogelsong and Haley...

 

For $7 million, I'm pretty sure he has. 

[crapforks]

Hughes is a lock if he is recovered, but I haven't really seen/read much that points to that. Tough to inagine planning on 160+ innings from Hughes at this point, no?

[diehardtwinsfan]

May over Berrios yes.  Not quite sure I want Santiago to be a lock over Berrios though. Given how bad Jose was when he was called up, I think some AAA time would do him good anyways.

[nicksaviking]

I agree with May over Berrios if only because if May doesn't get moved back to the rotation now, the ship might sail for good.

 

Also, well it's only my opinion and there hasn't been any other rumors that side with me, I bet Falvey will consider putting Hughes in the pen, healthy or not. He's a soft tossing righty with only three pitches, one being a cutter; so basically a bad curveball and two fastballs, which aren't very fast anymore. He's basically the opposite of what kinds of pitchers Falvey had in the rotation in Cleveland. He looks more like Zach McAllister who was moved to the pen two years ago than any pitcher in Cleveland's rotation.

[Willihammer]

I'm fully planning on May winding up back in the pen. As long as Molitor is the manager.

[diehardtwinsfan]

Hughes in the rotation is going to depend on his velocity come mid-March in my opinion. If it's back, he's a lock. If it's not, he's to the pen.

[gunnarthor]

I think Gibson, Santana and Santiago (barring injuries) are locks.  I think Hughes has to prove it. If he's throwing 87 in ST, he's in the pen.  I think the FO is going to put May into the rotation over Molitor's objections unless he has a really bad ST.  The last spot goes to Haley/Berrios/Hughes.

 

Haley is interesting.  I don't think the Twins are going to lose him but he could also be put into the pen, if need be.  Mejia starts in AAA.

[Mike Sixel]

No room for a top 20 prospect on a rebuilding team....

[Vanimal46]

I think Gibson, Santana and Santiago (barring injuries) are locks. I think Hughes has to prove it. If he's throwing 87 in ST, he's in the pen. I think the FO is going to put May into the rotation over Molitor's objections unless he has a really bad ST. The last spot goes to Haley/Berrios/Hughes.

 

Haley is interesting. I don't think the Twins are going to lose him but he could also be put into the pen, if need be. Mejia starts in AAA.

Concur. 3 locks, Hughes is still a wild card at best.

[Thrylos]

 

No room for a top 20 prospect on a rebuilding team....

 

Not if he pitches the way he did in 2016...

 

He has to prove improvement and he chose to not stay with the team during ST, to do so.

[DocBauer]

Hughes has to prove himself fit and ready. I hope he does. We're a better team if he does. Absolutely, positively want both May and Berrios in the rotation. But if I had to pick one initially, it would be May. No more pen. Let him start and run with it. Berrios can be called back up ASAP.

[Halsey Hall]

Berrios over May. Gibson concerns me.

[Mike Sixel]

Let's say Hughes and Santiago pitch to a 4.5 ERA......which isn't good, but isn't TERRIBLE. Does anyone think those guys get cut at that point, or moved to the bullpen? 

 

That's not good enough for your 2nd, 3rd and 4th pitchers......not for a team to be really good.

 

The worst possible outcome (other than injuries) is that the Twins have a "meh" rotation, not good enough to win, not bad enough to give the AAA/AA guys a chance before they lose velocity and get hurt.

[gunnarthor]

 

Let's say Hughes and Santiago pitch to a 4.5 ERA......which isn't good, but isn't TERRIBLE. Does anyone think those guys get cut at that point, or moved to the bullpen? 

 

That's not good enough for your 2nd, 3rd and 4th pitchers......not for a team to be really good.

 

The worst possible outcome (other than injuries) is that the Twins have a "meh" rotation, not good enough to win, not bad enough to give the AAA/AA guys a chance before they lose velocity and get hurt.

Probably depends on what else is happening.  If Hughes has a 4.50 era and is avg 5.1 innings per start and Berrios is putting up a sub 2 ERA in AAA, a change will be made.  My guess is that Berrios might start the season in AAA simply because he has options but will end up as one of the top five pitchers in terms of games started for the Twins.

[TheLeviathan]

To echo others, i wouldn't be penciling Hughes into anything. 

[Guest]

May to bullpen would mean:

 

1. 2018 rotation forecasted to be some of Hughes, Santana, Gibson, Berrios, Duffey, Jay, Gonsalves, Romero and/or a good free agent* or someone like Vogelsong, therefore not needing May; and

 

2. Either

A. Management just doesn't think May is that good; or

B. Management doesn't have confidence that during 2017 it will be able to find at least three reliable relievers among Kintzler, Rogers, Chargois, Tonkin, Boshers, Reed, Burdi, Duffey, Baxendale, Presley, Hildenberger, Melotakis, Boshers, Perkins, Breslow, Belisle, etc.

 

*not sure who this would be; don't think they'll have a shot at Madison Bumgarner.

[Guest]

Let's say Hughes and Santiago pitch to a 4.5 ERA......which isn't good, but isn't TERRIBLE. Does anyone think those guys get cut at that point, or moved to the bullpen? 

 

That's not good enough for your 2nd, 3rd and 4th pitchers......not for a team to be really good.

 

The worst possible outcome (other than injuries) is that the Twins have a "meh" rotation, not good enough to win, not bad enough to give the AAA/AA guys a chance before they lose velocity and get hurt.

I hope they are decent and . . . traded mid-season.

[Riverbrian]

May

 

He's done what the team has asked of him and we need capable starters so he's earned the right and we have the need...  We need to seriously audition starters this year. 

 

As long as Berrios has options and hasn't produced at the major league level. Stash him for depth. If he performs in Rochester and someone gets DL'ed on the big club... Someone always gets DL'ed... Call him up then. He will be here soon enough under that scenario. 

[Brock Beauchamp]

I want to see both Berrios and May in the rotation but if I need to choose one on Opening Day, I'd choose May.

[FormerMinnasotan]

If Berrios does go to AAA, he'd better be up by early May, not June or July. He will dominate AAA, unless he is injured. Plus I feel it is foolish to have Berrios in the minors when they obviously are not helping Berrios' transition to the Bigs. Just my opinion of course.

[Physics Guy]

I agree that it should be May. He has had success at the major league level, including a pretty good stretch of starts right before he was sent to the bull pen. He's also older, so if he's a starter he needs to show it this year. It seems the new FO wants to make sure Albers, Dean, etc don't make starts this year. I'd like to see Berrios in the rotation, but doubt it happens to start the season. He is part of the depth, but just hasn't proven it yet at MLB. I suspect he will be up by mid-May.

[Thrylos]

 

 

It seems the new FO wants to make sure Albers, Dean, etc don't make starts this year.

 

 

True statement.  Both were free agents.  Albers signed with Atlanta and Dean will play in Korea.

[KirbyDome89]

Its unfortunate that Santiago doesn't have  to "prove," himself....

 

I begrudgingly agree with the May over Berrios only because I feel this is his last chance. The question is whether this is a legitimate chance or more lip service like last ST. 

[Oxtung]

If Santana, Santiago, Hughes and Gibson are all locks that only leaves one spot. If that is Berrios that puts May and Duffey in the bullpen where it is hard to transition back to starter mid-season. Haley probably won't make the bullpen in this case but could potentially be kept if a deal could be worked out, but perhaps not too. One or two of Gonsalves, Jay, Romero, Jorge or Stewart might be ready at some point this year but calling them up before September might not be the best for their development, which I think we can all agree is the most important to the Twins future success.

 

Injuries will occur this season as they always do and that leaves Mejia and .... Tepesch? Slegers? The second coming of Pino?

 

My question to those of you who want to see Berrios in the opening day rotation: what is your plan for depth? I guess actually my question to everyone is, what is the plan for depth because while there are perhaps options none are particularly appealing to me.

[nytwinsfan]

 

Derek Wetmore at 1500 ESPN wrote today about the spring training battles he sees. He sees the rotation as almost set with Santana, Hughes, Santiago and Gibson. But he predicts the 5th spot will go to Trevor May over Jose Berrios. And he thinks it's the right call:

 

 

I agree with him on the four locks. Who do you want for the fifth spot?

Ugg, if the choice is May v. Berrios, I'd start May in the rotation, but it really should be Santiago who is dropped. It isn't even a close call IMO.

[Ben B]

Based on talent alone, it should be Santana, Gibson, May, Berrios as your top 4. Hughes can slot in there somewhere if he's healthy but that seems like a big if and I tend to agree that he'd be better used in the bullpen.

 

I still can't fathom why they kept Santiago around. I'd rather see somebody like Mejia or Duffey in the rotation than watch Santiago throwing meatballs every five days. They would likely equal his numbers and have some semblance of upside. 

[Jham]

I think we have to start May over Berrios.  He's been more successful, and apparently can't handle relieving.  I am however, very skeptical that he'll be able to hold up to a starting campaign after breaking down as a reliever.  Hopefully the regular rest will benefit him, but I can't imagine that he'll be able to keep himself from overthrowing when he gets in a jam the same way he did out of the pen.

[S.]

Berrios needs to be in the majors. May needs to be in the rotation. Counting on Hughes to be a starting pitcher (or an MLB pitcher at all) is idiotic and irresponsible. A starting rotation where your "top 3" includes pitchers like Santiago/injured Hughes is why we have sucked for so long. This offseason just seems like Terry Ryan version 2.0.

 

If we're just going to keep trotting out mediocre veterans and not going to let our young(er) pitchers get their lumps now, in what is almost assuredly another losing season, how exactly are we planning to improve this embarrassment of a pitching staff? We sure as hell didn't do anything to help it in FA or trades. And if they let Molitor continue to manage as poorly as he did last year, he's going to continue to nuke the confidence of our young pitchers too. If they spend this season jerking around Berrios and sending him back and forth to AAA every time he has a bad start and gets pulled after 3 innings, I'm going to blow a gasket.

 

If our best coaches are with the Twins (which they should be), and our best pitching prospect has already dominated AAA, shouldn't we have him up here learning from the best and facing the best opponents? Let him get mashed a bit if you have to, he's going to have to learn to pitch in the majors eventually, and a bad season is the best time to do so. Show some confidence in him and between innings tell him to get back out there next inning and pitch his ass off and show off the dominance he displayed at other levels. Don't pull him after 3 innings and send him back to AAA the next day just so you can have some garbage, no-future pitcher waste a bunch of innings for a few weeks or months instead.