Vargas Movin' On Up... And Out? Riverbrian- This one's especially for you!

[jokin]

 Despite extremely limited playing time, Kennys Vargas has stealthily moved up the Twins position player fWAR rankings. After Sunday, he has just moved ever-so-slightly ahead of Joe Mauer, (despite Kennys only playing in 35 games and Mauer with 133 games played) and he also is within 1/10th of a point of the Twins #2 fWar ranking held by Miguel Sano- 1.2 vs 1.1.

 

WAR. What is it good for? Well, Joe Schmidt had this comment in commentary response to Vargas' towering home run vs the Mets on Sunday.....

 

"Well, perhaps he will make a nice trade chip in the offseason..."

 

IOW-> "Hasta la vista, Vargy."

[old nurse]

WAR is not meant to be a perfectly precise indicator of a player’s contribution, but rather an estimate of their value to date. Given the imperfections of some of the available data and the assumptions made to calculate other components, WAR works best as an approximation.

 

That is from the definition of fwar. 

 

Joe Scmiidt now has credibility?

 

Shouldn't you be beating the drum of selling when the player's value may be the highest?

[beckmt]

Best for the Twins would be to have Mauer decide he is no longer capable of playing at a level he wants and to negotiate a retirement settlement.  As it is why would you pay anything for Vargas when you probably will be able to get him for free next spring.  His best position is American league very part time 1B and DH.  There are not many of those spots open in the major leagues. 

Maybe you can add him as a sweetener to a deal, but would not like to give away assets. 

Good for Vargas if he could sustain the WAR rate over a year, unlikely but look at David Ortiz. 

Maybe a better question is the success that Chad Allen has working with young players compared to Bruno.  This does not say Bruno  does not work hard, but times are it is the messenger.

[Eris]

Kennys Vargas, if he can sustain his current production, is the type of player you would like to keep.  DH has been an extreme weak spot for the Twins.  Vargas' production dropped off last year from his rookie year.  He seems to be regaining his level of production.  He has has improved his BB% while cutting down on K's, meaning he is taking better at bats.  

[Riverbrian]

Thank You Jokin. I do appreciate the gift. 

 

 

If you don't consider anyone named Dozier.

 

Kennys Vargas has been out best hitter this year. 

 

It should be all about earning playing time and proving yourself right now and I don't know what else he has to do.

 

Joe Mauer with two starts to Kennys one at Citi Field is backwards. 

 

If I had to choose between Vargas and Molitor. I'd choose Vargas.  

[Mike Sixel]

 

WAR is not meant to be a perfectly precise indicator of a player’s contribution, but rather an estimate of their value to date. Given the imperfections of some of the available data and the assumptions made to calculate other components, WAR works best as an approximation.

 

That is from the definition of fwar. 

 

Joe Scmiidt now has credibility?

 

Shouldn't you be beating the drum of selling when the player's value may be the highest?

 

Well, if directionally.....he is nearly number two......isn't the approximation he's pretty darn good, and should be part of the future?

[Otto von Ballpark]

Remember back in early August, when Dave posted about Mauer being back at the level of a .800 OPS hitter?  Back down to .755 on the season now.  Despite an increased BB% and ISO, Mauer's wRC+ is actually lower this year (102) than 2014 (105) thanks to BB% and ISO being up league-wide.

[howieramone2]

Our future DH is named Sano, not Vargas.

[Major League Ready]

 

Thank You Jokin. I do appreciate the gift. 

 

 

If you don't consider anyone named Dozier.

 

Kennys Vargas has been out best hitter this year. 

 

It should be all about earning playing time and proving yourself right now and I don't know what else he has to do.

 

Joe Mauer with two starts to Kennys one at Citi Field is backwards. 

 

If I had to choose between Vargas and Molitor. I'd choose Vargas.  

The time has come that cutting Mauer is probably in the best interest of the team.  There is no way the old regime would have cut him but maybe the new regime will make those hard decisions.  Of course, you do have to wonder if the new guy wants to start by cutting the best know player, and local boy who always conducted himself as well as you could ask. 

[jimmer]

I'm a firm believer that once the cancer that is Mauer is gone, the team will use that money to sign a top notch FA ace and we will return to the dominance that his attendance on this team for so many years stopped us from achieving.

[jimmer]

Vargas with his 1.1 WAR.  Took him 35 games to accomplish what future MLB regular (and possible HOFer one day) Parmelee did in 21 games back in 2011 :-)

[TheLeviathan]

Vargas should be getting a nice, long look this year.  And next year.

 

Mauer is not going to magically revert back to what he was no matter how many times we get excited about a 10 day stretch.  He should no longer be entrenched at first come hell or high water.

[ashbury]

If I had to choose between Vargas and Molitor. I'd choose Vargas.  

Agreed. Molitor's bat speed has shown a precipitous decline ever since he turned fifty.

[jimmer]

 

Agreed. Molitor's bat speed has shown a precipitous decline ever since he turned fifty.

ah yes, but he can bunt.

[howieramone2]

 

Vargas should be getting a nice, long look this year.  And next year.

 

Mauer is not going to magically revert back to what he was no matter how many times we get excited about a 10 day stretch.  He should no longer be entrenched at first come hell or high water.

He will like Arcia, it just won't be for our favorite team.

[nicksaviking]

 

If I had to choose between Vargas and Molitor. I'd choose Vargas.  

 

I'd hold off on that until we can definitively say we know how Vargas feels about sacrifice bunts in the 3rd inning. I haven't seen any comments from him on that subject yet.

 

If he's against it, yeah, I'd consider him as a player manager.

[Vanimal46]

Most of us predicted correctly that the Mauer situation was going to get ugly towards the end of his contract. It's too bad that his body is physically breaking down on him. 

As far as Vargas, I'm not a believer that he has much of any value in a trade. I also do not want him in the field for any stretch of time. He's a spot starter at best out there. I just don't see where he fits in the picture. 

[Brock Beauchamp]

I don't understand why Mauer is starting games in September. He was injured, then "healthy", and hasn't been performing well in quite some time.

 

Let the guy sit and catch his breath. It doesn't matter anyway. He's going to get paid and the Twins will have an opportunity to look at some other guys with more frequency.

 

Man, the entire situation around Mauer is such a bummer. It looked like he might be on the verge of a small rebound earlier this season; his peripherals looked wildly different, he was seeing the ball, and he was making classic Mauer contact. Sure, he's a diminished player at this point but I thought there was a glimmer of a chance we could see him post a .780-.800 season once or twice more before he retires.

[Mike Sixel]

I can see where Vargas plays: DH, with the occasional 1B.

 

Sano is at 3B or 1B, with DH when Vargas isn't.

 

I don't think it is all that hard to figure out.

 

As for what is happening now....sigh....

[Vanimal46]

 

I can see where Vargas plays: DH, with the occasional 1B.

 

Sano is at 3B or 1B, with DH when Vargas isn't.

 

I don't think it is all that hard to figure out.

 

As for what is happening now....sigh....

When Park is thrown in the equation, that's where the picture gets fuzzy. Are we casting out Park after 1 season? 

[Winston Smith]

 

Agreed. Molitor's bat speed has shown a precipitous decline ever since he turned fifty.

He will be 34 next April which is about equal to 62 for the rest of us. Time to consider retirement, hope he has saved some money.

[Vanimal46]

 

He will be 34 next April which is about equal to 62 for the rest of us. Time to consider retirement, hope he has saved some money.

If you believe what Ruesse says, he wrote a hot take article the other day that this will be Mauer's last season... 

[Mike Sixel]

 

When Park is thrown in the equation, that's where the picture gets fuzzy. Are we casting out Park after 1 season? 

 

Start him in AAA until healthy and shows he's ready? That's probably what I'd do.

 

I can see a future where Vargas is on the bench, and Park is the starter, though. Park does complicate things, agreed.

[Brock Beauchamp]

It wouldn't surprise me at all to see the new front office trade Park this offseason just to remove him from the equation.

 

The return would be minimal but it's the kind of thing new regimes do: remove questionable players to clear room for their own roster strategy.

 

In short, I'm not worried about Park/Vargas playing time.

[ashbury]

He will be 34 next April which is about equal to 62 for the rest of us. Time to consider retirement, hope he has saved some money.

Even when I spell the manager's name correctly, it turns into a Mauer thread.

[Vanimal46]

 

It wouldn't surprise me at all to see the new front office trade Park this offseason just to remove him from the equation.

 

The return would be minimal but it's the kind of thing new regimes do: remove questionable players to clear room for their own roster strategy.

 

In short, I'm not worried about Park/Vargas playing time.

I would be perfectly fine with this solution as well. Signing Park in the first place put us in this downward spiral of too many 1B/DH in the kitchen. 

[Rosterman]

The elephant in the room is still Joe Mauer. You start sacrificing players that are contributing and may be a longer term (and cheaper asset) because you need somewhere to play Joe.

 

Yes, you trade a guy if he has value, and you think you can replace him.

 

But your choices for first base are five: Joe Mauer, Miguel Sano, Trevor Plouffe and Byung-Ho Park, Kennys Vargas. But playing Mauer at first eliminates ALL of them.

 

Then you look at DH: Sano, Park, Vargas, Mauer, Adam Walker, Daniel Palka. So, I guess, you can afford to lose Vargas AND Park, if you want Sano at DH.

 

But then you need someone to play third base, and suddenly you have 30-million tied up in Plouffe and Mauer at the corners. 

 

Sigh!

[gunnarthor]

Vargas had a nice season in the majors this year if a SSS and he has done a nice job taking more walks.  His numbers in AAA weren't as good - .233/.361/.424 - but he still showed decent k/bb ratios.  I think I'd line up next April with Joe at first, Sano at third and Park in AAA and let Vargas have month as primary DH.  But be prepared to move on when/fi he fails and/or Park is ready to take over.

[Minniman]

 

If you believe what Ruesse says, he wrote a hot take article the other day that this will be Mauer's last season... 

 

If Mauer could step down for injury reasons, and the Twins could go to an insurance policy for the money, why wouldn't either side do that?

 

If Mauer was hitting .300 with some pop on his bat and good legs under him, I could see him sticking this out, but that is not going to be the case in the foreseeable future.

 

[Kwak]

 

If you believe what Ruesse says, he wrote a hot take article the other day that this will be Mauer's last season... 

Has Ruesse taken Sid's role?