Article: Fixing Jose Berrios

[LimestoneBaggy]

I'm not smart enough to know the answer to this, but I've always wondered about the generation of speed based upon the relative weight transfer in contrast to leg drive off the rubber. It would seem to me that higher rear leg drive would actually kill the natural downward plane of the pitch vs. the general action created by weight transfer down hill. 

[tobi0040]

I can see why you might think that, but the argument that this writer put forth was a little more nuanced. Basically, shortish pitchers like Berrios need to create a fair amount of momentum and burst from their lower half in order to (in his opinion) safely generate arm speed. If the top-half (arms, shoulders) are moving too slow, it ends up lagging behind the lower half. That lack of sync causes the release point to be behind and pitches to drift armside.

 

I wish you could see the article. He added a couple of nice gifs that contrasted two pitches against different lefties. They may have been cherry-picked, but even to my untrained eye I could see a subtle difference between them. Basically, if you look at where Berrios's arm is when his left foot hits the ground, you can see that his arm is just a little bit behind on a arm-side miss than when he throws a good strike.

Roy Oswalt comes to mind. He got really low and drove hard with his legs.

[dxpavelka]

 

Seeing the struggles of top prospects like May, Meyer, and Barrios makes one leery about what else is in the cupboards.

Seems like there's plenty of groceries in the cupboard.  Old Mother Hubbard don't seem to be much of a cook though.

[Vanimal46]

This conversation is above my pay grade as a fan.... All I know is someone needs to fix Berrios, because he's the only internal option that could realistically make a difference for this rotation in 2017. I really don't want to think about the possibility that Berrios is another #4/5 starter. 

[Dantes929]

Won't explain the 4 walks in an inning but I have noticed the same thing in Berrios as I did in May when he first came up.    When they get ahead in the count they are trying to make the perfect pitch and invariably throw the curve balls in the dirt or the fast balls head high or the sliders a foot wide.    I have no problem with throwing off the plate on 0-2 but if you are not even tempting the batter then you are truly wasting the pitches and the advantage of being ahead while running up the pitch count and evening the count to no purpose.   

[Teflon]

Very nice insights, Parker. I recently saw some Nolan Ryan footage and noticed the same thing. He did not push off of the rubber at all, either. He had a long stride but lifted his right leg after he planted his left and just pulled it through the motion after him. All his velocity came from his 90-degree trunk rotation which was perfectly synced with his trebuchet-like arm whip. Sandy Koufax was similar but appeared to have more "fall" in his delivery, buckling his back leg on the rubber as he started his motion towards the plate so he would drop forward, rotate, and arm-whip at the same time. Of course the mound was 18 inches high back then and the Koufax style reflected that. Doubt he could use the same motion on today's shorter mound. 

[Darius]

I know exactly how to fix him:

 

I'm sure a lot of people can relate to the "I play better after a few beers" theory in softball, golf, pool, whatever your game. It's all about getting yourself in the right state of mind. Maybe the kid just needs a shot of Wild Turkey in between innings.

 

But seriously. I think it's all mental/confidence. One good start will go a long way towards getting that ball rolling. He's nervous, he's pressing, he's hanging on every pitch....which trickles down into his mechanics. He just needs to trust his stuff/mechanics, and go out there and have some fun.

Edited August 23, 2016 by Darius

[Rosterman]

Brunansky did some talk on the morning show on KSTP last week about players having multiple coaches and how you, the team coach, deals with all those other people offering advice. The easiest is that everyone's remarks are funneled thru one person. The second best is Bruno's approach, where he listens to the player's take on the advice, why they are listening, asks about their feelings about what they are doing, and then goes forth from there, discussing how we should actually tackle this problem and the advice. The player, first, ahs to recognize that something isn't working. They should feel it, or see it, at some point.

[Shane Wahl]

This is an old baseball pitcher thing, but he is Aiming and not Throwing. The mechanics demonstrate that.

[FormerMinnasotan]

Biggest thing for Berrios is to just r e l a x. Once he did that in Rochester he was back to his dominant self. He has the stuff and command, if he isn't amped up. We all know he is a hard worker and wants to do well, he just has to "do" it. I don't know if pitching in the bullpen will help, it might though especially if Berrios can get a clean inning or two. Obviously I am not suggesting on turning Berrios into a reliever, but have him in the bullpen until he's got the confidence in himself to start. I mean it worked for Johan Santana and Fransico Liriano it could work for Berrios too.

[Parker Hageman]

Another interesting tidbit is Berrios' release point has dropped some in August. Obviously there is not a ton of data from earlier in his development (mostly AZ Fall and MiLB All Star Game appearances) and the drop is roughly .3 inches but the Twins have driven home finding his release point. 

 

[adorduan]

I just wish we didn't have to "fix" 75% of our so called top prospects.

[matty_a7]

Sounds like the kind of stuff that's going to mess with a kids confidence and make him a head case. Keep throwing him out there and let him figure it out in a meaningless season and quit trying to "fix" him when you've constantly shown you don't know how to "fix".

[laloesch]

I think the Twins need to stop "tinkering" and let Berrios pitch for better or for worse.  In Santiago's case he stated that the Twins had already started changing his approach after his second start.  Maybe they should give these guys a couple more starts before changing things up.   

[tobi0040]

If I was another team, I would buy low on struggling Twins prospects

[peterb18]

Parker is way too technical....and I know he likes this stuff. There is too much on Berrios' plate right now. Like the the old golf pro Bob Toski(before Leadbettter and Butch Harmon) he said you can have, "paralysis from over over analysis".

Pitching is really a free flowing motion...like the golf swing each individual has his own little quirks and idiosyncrasies.

[ShouldaCouldaWoulda]

 

Very nice insights, Parker. I recently saw some Nolan Ryan footage and noticed the same thing. He did not push off of the rubber at all, either. He had a long stride but lifted his right leg after he planted his left and just pulled it through the motion after him. All his velocity came from his 90-degree trunk rotation which was perfectly synced with his trebuchet-like arm whip. Sandy Koufax was similar but appeared to have more "fall" in his delivery, buckling his back leg on the rubber as he started his motion towards the plate so he would drop forward, rotate, and arm-whip at the same time. Of course the mound was 18 inches high back then and the Koufax style reflected that. Doubt he could use the same motion on today's shorter mound. 

Yeah, I read an article recently that found that mound push off did not help with velocity at least, BUT that the landing leg is what mattered. Like, landing straight and pole vaulting hard off of it,  or something similar to this is what generates power and velocity.

[The Wise One]

 

Parker is way too technical....and I know he likes this stuff. There is too much on Berrios' plate right now. Like the the old golf pro Bob Toski(before Leadbettter and Butch Harmon) he said you can have, "paralysis from over over analysis". Pitching is really a free flowing motion...like the golf swing each individual has his own little quirks and idiosyncrasies.

The more the consistent and repeatable the swing, the better the golfer. Same for pitching.

 

Mind also analysis is preferred over lysis of the player. The paralysis does not come from the analysis but the lack of knowledge involved in the treatment plan.

Edited August 24, 2016 by The Wise One

[Parker Hageman]

Parker is way too technical....and I know he likes this stuff. There is too much on Berrios' plate right now.

 

 

What? I'm not being technical. The point is the Twins are being too technical, and in this case, feeding him false information. 

[70charger]

 

I know exactly how to fix him:

I'm sure a lot of people can relate to the "I play better after a few beers" theory in softball, golf, pool, whatever your game. It's all about getting yourself in the right state of mind. Maybe the kid just needs a shot of Wild Turkey in between innings.
 

 

I would watch that game.

[peterb18]

Parker,

I didn't explain myself well. I meant that you like the technical part of the game. Which is good. Yes, there is way too much stuff flowing into Berrios' head at this time.

[Parker Hageman]

 

Parker, I didn't explain myself well. I meant that you like the technical part of the game. Which is good. Yes, there is way too much stuff flowing into Berrios' head at this time.

 

Gotcha. 

[tobi0040]

What? I'm not being technical. The point is the Twins are being too technical, and in this case, feeding him false information.

This staff? No way.

[Parker Hageman]

Still not fixed, btw.

 

[ashbury]

ERA drops to 9.24. Came in at 9.28.

Baby steps. Baby steps.

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

I doubt Berrios needed any fixing when he was called up, though I agree he needs fixing now.

[Parker Hageman]

Per reporters: Twins are sending him and Tyler Duffey down to Rochester. 

[Mr. Brooks]

Per reporters: Twins are sending him and Tyler Duffey down to Rochester.

Twins need to send Allen and Molitor down to Rochester.

 

Hopefully the advice for Berrios when he gets down there will be, "next time you get up there just do what you've done at every level and don't listen to a word those guys say.

[Ncgo4]

Berrios now has been sent back down.  One of the best pitchers in the minors get to the majors twice and his pitching goes to hell and he gets sent back down.  The problem isn't that a room full of people are giving him technical pitching instruction.  The problem is that a room full of people are even allowed to approach him with advice is the issue.  It means that no one has taken ownership for the development of our prize pitching future.  This alone should be reason to fire Moitar.

 

I cannot but wonder if the same thing wasn't done with Buxton and some of the other hitters that have failed.  Can you imagine Jason Day on the practice range at the US Open and a series of retired good players not trained teachers mind you, just guys that used to be a good players came up to him one at a time and suggested that he change his grip, alignment and tempo?  They'd shut down the practice tee.

 

The circumstance described is the most damning description I've ever heard of how to deal with a valued prospect.

 

[Boom Boom]

Who is the Twins' AAA pitching coach? Can we send Neil Allen down and call up that guy?

 

Seriously though, the Twins need to give serious thought to a new pitching coach. The fact that everybody from Blyleven to Santana and Dick Such was giving him something different to work on tells me that Allen is not communicating well.