Should Sano Get Demoted?

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

I've been irritated for years by the lack of Latin-American mentors in the Twins system. That being said, it's hard to say the Twins have kept LA players down. They have been playing Centeno, Vargas, Polanco, Escobar, Sano and Rosario, with Santana and Rodriguez on the mound. Only Sano has had his work ethic called into question.

I don't think the issue only manifests itself in playing time, or criticism of work ethic, although those can be bits of public evidence around the problem.  I think the culture plays a role in general development too.  If the young Latin player doesn't fit the quiet, scrappy mold, it just causes extra friction.

[Mike Sixel]

 

I don't think the issue only manifests itself in playing time, or criticism of work ethic, although those can be bits of public evidence around the problem.  I think the culture plays a role in general development too.  If the young Latin player doesn't fit the quiet, scrappy mold, it just causes extra friction.

 

Which is what that study I was referring to found, but I don't know where/when it was published.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

The argument being made was they ONLY rip Latin players....I merely offered two examples that required a millisecond of thought to recall. In no way does that imply if they have an issue with Latin players or not, as I clearly stated in the post.

 

I for one called for years for them to hire more Latin coaches, it was embarrassing, imo, that they had almost no one that even spoke Spanish, let alone had cultural similarities to many of their players. They clearly recognized they had an issue, I don't think they've addressed it enough, but I can't say for sure or not.

Fair enough, sorry I haven't followed the thread much to this point.

 

Agreed on the rest of it.  I don't think it was solely money that left the team so ineffective/absent from the international market prior to the 2007 or so, and while increased money/signings/facilities since then are nice, odds are some of the root causes of our old international deficiencies are still present in other areas of the organization.

[dbminn]

 

I for one called for years for them to hire more Latin coaches, it was embarrassing, imo, that they had almost no one that even spoke Spanish, let alone had cultural similarities to many of their players. They clearly recognized they had an issue, I don't think they've addressed it enough, but I can't say for sure or not.

 

Totally agree. Maybe a long-term report during the offseason by the crack TD crew is in order.

[Everyday Eddy]

 

I don't think the issue only manifests itself in playing time, or criticism of work ethic, although those can be bits of public evidence around the problem.  I think the culture plays a role in general development too.  If the young Latin player doesn't fit the quiet, scrappy mold, it just causes extra friction.

Agreed,   the culture of the Twins has a really weird almost southern conservative type vibe coming from it.   I mean they're having faith night and I highly doubt a latin player will speak at it.   Has to make them a little uncomfortable

[dbminn]

 

I don't think the issue only manifests itself in playing time, or criticism of work ethic, although those can be bits of public evidence around the problem.  I think the culture plays a role in general development too.  If the young Latin player doesn't fit the quiet, scrappy mold, it just causes extra friction.

 

I totally agree with you, spycake. I was a little clumsy with my words. This is a big issue, especially (I think) for the Twins system. TR stressed that he wanted the young Latin players to learn English. He never understood that cultural issues - especially discussing difficult topics - are a big deal.

 

This thread started about Sano in particular. I still believe Sano has to work on his game. I don't think Molitor and Bruno were out of line in their particular comments - they've waited many months before making their thoughts public. It is frustrating to know that there might not be a mentor for Sano, with his background, available to talk about it.

[jimmer]

 

 

 

 

Look, I know the Star-Tribune likes to single out a favorite whipping boy and slag his character to drum up passions.

 

.

This is about Sano, not Mauer :-)

[jimmer]

 

Agreed,   the culture of the Twins has a really weird almost southern conservative type vibe coming from it.   I mean they're having faith night and I highly doubt a latin player will speak at it.   Has to make them a little uncomfortable

I've spent a ton of time in Latin America.  Years and years and even more years.  Most of the people I've interacted with in those countries are extremely religious.  I doubt they'll be uncomfortable with Faith Night.

[HitInAPinch]

I found an article on the subject from 2013:

 

http://www.slate.com/articles/sports/sports_nut/2013/10/dodgers_braves_playoffs_latin_players_are_changing_baseball_get_used_to.html

 

I think it can be summarized by saying:  Latino's are more passionate about the game and older white players view is, there's a "right way" to play the game.  WELCOME TO THE YEAR 2016 !!!

 

Sano's attitude has been kinda surly lately, i.e.  walking across the plate when he doesn't like a strike call.

There are plenty of Latino players with the Twins that can talk to Sano.  Unfortunately, I think the best to do that got traded to SF.

[Everyday Eddy]

 

I've spent a ton of time in Latin America.  Years and years and even more years.  Most of the people I've interacted with in those countries are extremely religious.  I doubt they'll be uncomfortable with Faith Night.

I'm aware Latin countries are generally more religious than the U.S.   I'm still going to assume faith night is catered more to the white christian though.  

[Kwak]

Benching a guy--speaks loudly. There is no need to waste an option to show pique.

[Squirrel]

Can we get back on topic here? I understand the possible peripheral here, but that is not the topic of this thread. If you want to discuss perceived or actual bias of Latin players by the Twins, by all means start a thread and discuss it, but don't jack a thread because you find the peripheral a more interesting topic to discuss.

[jorgenswest]

Can we get back on topic here? I understand the possible peripheral here, but that is not the topic of this thread. If you want to discuss perceived or actual bias of Latin players by the Twins, by all means start a thread and discuss it, but don't jack a thread because you find the peripheral a more interesting topic to discuss.

I think this is my first time in this topic.

 

I really don't see how they separate the two. The perception on the part of the Latin American players is critical. Is it possible that they might wonder why they would replace Sano with Plouffe when Sano performance is superior (at least in their minds)? Is it possible that they will perceive that race is a factor? The Twins need to be careful here.

 

We really don't know the perceptions of the players of color. We just get that of the white management through the press and broadcast team. The current line is about Sano and his work ethic.

 

Should he be sent down? Absolutely not.

[LaBombo]

By way of a preface, my preference was for Ryan/Antony to Billy Beane Plouffe away to another team so that Molitor couldn't Art Howe him into the lineup every day at third over Sano, who should be playing there every day unless/until the World Health Organization determines that Sano's defense at third is putting the planet's population at grave risk. Which they might.

 

That being said, Sano has committed enough atrocities at third that there shouldn't even be any surprise, let alone internal backlash, if a traditionally defense-first organization like the Twins decides to go with Plouffe at third and send Sano and his granite glove back to fielding boot camp in AAA Rochester.

 

And if ANY player thinks he or any other player is being treated unfairly for ANY reason, then it's up to the Twins to make sure they have the kind of team atmosphere where those concerns can be discussed without fear of reprisal. For what it's worth (nothing, I think), Molitor seems to me like the sort of manager who would not only allow but actively promote that kind of atmosphere.

[Mike Sixel]

That was sarcasm when you said the TWins were defense minded, right? Sano, Willingham, Young, Suzuki, Doumit, DanSAn, Nunez and Escobar in the OF.... et. al.....you are going to say they care about defense? No.

 

As for Molitor as a leader, we have no idea how open he is or is not. None.

[Twodogs]

I personally think that the Twins need to work Sano at 3rd. I am pretty sure that playing Sano in the OF from Feb to June, probably messed him up at 3rd.  I remember getting into conversations with others on this site about Sano playing in the OF and I felt it could affect him.  But the reason Sano needs to play 3rd is that the Twins need to get Vargas's bat into the game.  He seems to be doing pretty good since his call up.  Plus he switch hits.  If Sano DH's then Vargas is out and I think that would be a move that should be avoided if at all possible.  Im sure that Sano will get better if he plays that position all year as opposed to switching around.  JMO

[LaBombo]

 

That was sarcasm when you said the TWins were defense minded, right? Sano, Willingham, Young, Suzuki, Doumit, DanSAn, Nunez and Escobar in the OF.... et. al.....you are going to say they care about defense? No.

 

As for Molitor as a leader, we have no idea how open he is or is not. None.

I did say traditionally. This is an organization that fretted over Ortiz' inability to play first, handed the third base job to Nicky Punto, and agonized over Dougie Baseball's glove vs. Morneau's burgeoning All Star-caliber bat, among other defensive fetishes. And at least some of the staff who made it that way are still around.

 

And like I said, my Molitor opinion was for novelty purposes only, not for use as a flotation safety device, etc. It's totally subjective.

 

I'm just saying Molitor seems to have a personality that stands in stark contrast to, say, a Tommy Lasorda, or an Ozzie Guillen, who probably would respond to a player's concern about ethnicity factoring into their decisions with profanity so intense that it could serve as an alternative energy source. And maybe work in an ethic slur while they were at it.

 

[Ncgo4]

The Latin impact on the Twins is major. Sano, Barrios, Rosario, we all know the rest, but it's very big. I don't know if there's a major cultural difference, or not. I'd be shocked to find that there is not. My question is who on the Twin's management/coaching staff is the cultural link? Tony Oliva? I doubt a 70+ year old can fill that roll, so who on the team's leadership is there when the Latin players start speaking in Spanish when they feel one of "them" is being slighted?

 

This is the kind of situation that could really become an issue. Wonder if it already is, but really am not implying that it is.

[jay]

Strib poll today on "should Sano be sent down?"

 

...79% yes with > 1000 responses

[Otto von Ballpark]

Strib poll today on "should Sano be sent down?"

 

...79% yes with > 1000 responses

If only the Twins front office was that effective at stuffing the ballot during all-star voting!

 

Seriously, I fully endorse the opposite of any poll of Star Tribune sports readers.

[nmcowboy]

I realize I am in the minority with this comment, but I say send him down for a couple of reasons:

First, the twins may have messed him up with the half season on Sano in right field experiment.  Let him get everyday reps at third base again.  

Second, I have suspected for a while that he may not have the right attitude.  It started with the Twins requesting that he lose weight in the offseason.  He responded by essentially saying, "nah, don't want to" with his actions.  Now we hear rumors that the Twins are dissatisfied with his work ethic.  Perhaps a demotion serves as a wake up call? Miguel, if you want to be successful at the MLB level, raw talent alone won't do it.

for both those reasons, perhaps a demotion serves him well in the long run?

Just my opinion, but go ahead and disagree.

[DaveW]

23 years old (barely)

157 games

34 home runs

.858 ops

 

Can he improve? Yeah of course.

 

But you sure as hell don't send him down to AAA, what are the Twins even thinking?!?!?

[Don Walcott]

I realize I am in the minority with this comment, but I say send him down for a couple of reasons:

First, the twins may have messed him up with the half season on Sano in right field experiment.  Let him get everyday reps at third base again.  

Second, I have suspected for a while that he may not have the right attitude.  It started with the Twins requesting that he lose weight in the offseason.  He responded by essentially saying, "nah, don't want to" with his actions.  Now we hear rumors that the Twins are dissatisfied with his work ethic.  Perhaps a demotion serves as a wake up call? Miguel, if you want to be successful at the MLB level, raw talent alone won't do it.

for both those reasons, perhaps a demotion serves him well in the long run?

Just my opinion, but go ahead and disagree.

And this is a well thought out opinion. However, I still think Sano should be given a chance to continue playing at third base. He is one of the most talented young hitters in the game, and he should be an automatic choice to hit cleanup. Having messed up his season by playing him in the outfield, I think we need to get him as much work at third this season as possible, so we know where he's going to play by spring training. Right now, Mauer is much better at first and Vargas and possibly Park can't play anywhere else. Our best chance to get as many of these bats in the lineup as possible is if Sano can stick at third. I don't disagree with the idea that he could work out those issues in AAA. However, he can work on those issues in te MLB as well. And his development as a hitter is best continued at this level. In AAA, he wouldn't be challenged enough.

[nmcowboy]

 

And this is a well thought out opinion. However, I still think Sano should be given a chance to continue playing at third base. He is one of the most talented young hitters in the game, and he should be an automatic choice to hit cleanup. Having messed up his season by playing him in the outfield, I think we need to get him as much work at third this season as possible, so we know where he's going to play by spring training. Right now, Mauer is much better at first and Vargas and possibly Park can't play anywhere else. Our best chance to get as many of these bats in the lineup as possible is if Sano can stick at third. I don't disagree with the idea that he could work out those issues in AAA. However, he can work on those issues in te MLB as well. And his development as a hitter is best continued at this level. In AAA, he wouldn't be challenged enough.

We are 100% in agreement on one point, probably the most important one: Sano needs regular playing time at 3rd.  

[Rosterman]

I Sano needs 100% playing time at third, where do we play Plouffe? He can't corner the outfields because of Kepler and Rosario. And then we need Polanco to play somewhere other than shortstop, it seems. And then we have Vargas/Park. Where do we play Trevor Plouffe!?!

[drivlikejehu]

Plouffe stinks. Release him. Who cares? I still am amazed by this discussion. A team more than 20 games below .500 would send down one of the most talented young players in the league to work on his defense? After they are the ones that screwed around with changing his position?

 

Gee, I wonder why the Twins have been so bad for so long. 

[dxpavelka]

Sending Sano down sends one message LOUD & CLEAR:  The firings on July 25 did not cut deep enough.  Has anyone considered that the reason nobody's lighting a fire under any of these guys asses like TK & Gardy used to do is because neither of them is sitting in that chair anymore?

 

[Ncgo4]

We have Mauer, Plouffe, Sano, Vargas, Walker, Park and a few others to play three positions, 1B, 3B & DH. Neither Plouffe or Mauer will absolutely not be part of any winning Twins team in the future. What they are doing is taking up space that could be used for development of the others. Compounding the issue, we don't know if the other 3 are capable of filling these 3 positions. As long as Mauer and Plouffe are around, we will not only not develop Sano and Park, we won't even learn if they can become the basis of a future winning team.

 

Current management does not seem capable of actually facing the facts about what must be done to get this team ready for the 2019 season. Instead we seem driven to win however many meaningless extra game we can to make things look better and pee away about six layers of draft positions.

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

Seriously, I fully endorse the opposite of any poll of Star Tribune sports readers.

Breath through mouth, yes or no?

Yes: 99%

 

No: 0%

 

Do not understand question: 1%

[DaveW]

This thread needs to be archived forever.

39 home runs in his first 159 big league games.