Should Sano Get Demoted?

[alarp33]

 

I'm saying he's a useful player who, when used right, has value. At his age, are you really going to cut him when you could demote Polanco or someone for a couple weeks to let Plouffe regain value? 

 

Useful, how? He can't hit, field or steal bases.  Value in which way? He's been the least valuable player in baseball since the start of 2015. 

 

Yes, I am. 

[Brandon Warne]

 

Not playing them well.....and I guess we should ignore the last two years? Do people really think Santana is a good MLB player now?

 

He's a 25th man who plays all over. I wouldn't call that a good player, but it's useful. 

[Brandon Warne]

 

Useful, how? He can't hit, field or steal bases.  Value in which way? He's been the least valuable player in baseball since the start of 2015. 

 

Yes, I am. 

 

OK. 

[Brandon Warne]

 

what is two years going to tell you that the last 55 PAs won't? :-)

 

That you're choosing to leave out the year before, which -- while heavily BABIP-influenced -- still happened. 

[jimmer]

Santana plays all over because Molitor tells him to.  Any player can play all over if their manager wants them too.  Doesn't mean they should or that they are competent at doing so.

[alarp33]

 

He's a 25th man who plays all over. I wouldn't call that a good player, but it's useful. 

 

I love the "25th man" argument that we see around here on occasion, like that somehow is a positive. 

[Mike Sixel]

Santana also pinch runs a lot and tries to steal a lot.....that makes him more valuable I guess....

[Brandon Warne]

He's 25, a career .274/.308/.393 hitter and gives you a body who can play all over. There's zero percent chance he'll be DFA'd, whether people like it or not. 

 

And again at 25....you can hate on him all you want but guys can and do get better from that age. Sort of like how he has from last year to this year, at least so far. 

[Brandon Warne]

 

Santana also pinch runs a lot and tries to steal a lot.....that makes him more valuable I guess....

 

Well, no. But in a ****ty season you might as well see what you have and see if a guy with good physical tools can learn to make himself a better player, rather than outright cutting him and letting someone else do it.

 

I'm not a big Santana fan. Not at all. But this is preposterous. 

[jimmer]

 

Santana also pinch runs a lot and tries to steal a lot.....that makes him more valuable I guess....

except he keeps getting thrown out. he's completely negated what little value stolen bases have.

[jimmer]

 

I love the "25th man" argument that we see around here on occasion, like that somehow is a positive. 

right up there with the 5th starter argument.,  gets used for like 6 starters a year :-)

[Brandon Warne]

 

except he keeps getting thrown out. he's completely negated what little value stolen bases have.

 

I'm aware of that. But because it's been that way in the past doesn't mean it's going to stay that way. 

[Mike Sixel]

I'd 100% more see what Polanco has to offer, since we don't know much, and he was MUCH better in the minors, than see what Santana can maybe do in the next month.

 

If my choice is more Santana or more Polanco, that's an easy choice of Polanco for me.

 

Does anyone think he'd get claimed if they tried to send him down?

[jimmer]

 

That you're choosing to leave out the year before, which -- while heavily BABIP-influenced -- still happened. 

when it's completely non-repeatable (as the last two years have predictably shown), it's easy to discard. Like Hughes 2014, for example.

[Mike Sixel]

 

except he keeps getting thrown out. he's completely negated what little value stolen bases have.

 

Uh, that was my point.....

[jimmer]

 

Uh, that was my point.....

I know.

[drivlikejehu]

So wait - we want to give a sub-replacement-level player lots of ABs in the Majors, but have Sano try to get back on track in AAA?

 

Hmm, ok, going to have to disagree with that one.

[alarp33]

 

Well, no. But in a ****ty season you might as well see what you have and see if a guy with good physical tools can learn to make himself a better player, rather than outright cutting him and letting someone else do it.

 

I'm not a big Santana fan. Not at all. But this is preposterous. 

 

I'd rather see what I have got with players who have a future on this team.  

 

Its preposterous to want to cut the worst player in baseball, rather than continue to start him.  

 

Just a reminder, his Minors track record isn't much better than his Majors

[jimmer]

 

So wait - we want to give a sub-replacement-level player lots of ABs in the Majors, but have Sano try to get back on track in AAA?

 

Hmm, ok, going to have to disagree with that one.

no WE don't.  A select few think Santana should be on a major league 25 man roster.

[Brandon Warne]

 

I'd 100% more see what Polanco has to offer, since we don't know much, and he was MUCH better in the minors, than see what Santana can maybe do in the next month.

 

If my choice is more Santana or more Polanco, that's an easy choice of Polanco for me.

 

Does anyone think he'd get claimed if they tried to send him down?

 

All that is cool until you consider that the move to make is bringing Plouffe back. Where are you putting Polanco after that

[Brandon Warne]

 

So wait - we want to give a sub-replacement-level player lots of ABs in the Majors

 

Nobody made that argument, but nice try.

[Brandon Warne]

 

no WE don't.  A select few think Santana should be on a major league 25 man roster.

 

It's comparing apples to oranges:

 

Jorge Polanco is an every day player. 

Danny Santana is not.

[Brandon Warne]

 

I'd rather see what I have got with players who have a future on this team.  

 

Its preposterous to want to cut the worst player in baseball, rather than continue to start him.  

 

Just a reminder, his Minors track record isn't much better than his Majors

 

Cut the worst player in baseball rather than start him? You've lost me there.

[Mike Sixel]

Polanco plays 80% of the games between 3B, 2B, DH, and maybe even OF (not my top choice at all).

 

Plouffe plays 3B when Polacno isn't, some DH, and sits around a lot.

[alarp33]

 

Cut the worst player in baseball rather than start him? You've lost me there.

 

You called it preposterous to want to cut him.  He's the worst player in baseball (by WAR).  He starts nearly every night. 

[Brandon Warne]

 

Polanco plays 80% of the games between 3B, 2B, DH, and maybe even OF (not my top choice at all).

 

Plouffe plays 3B when Polacno isn't, some DH, and sits around a lot.

 

OK, so then you're sitting Sano and Dozier way, way more than you want to. 

 

Again, not trading Plouffe put you into this problem, but the fact of the matter is you've got to fix it one way or another. Sending Polanco out -- or Vargas, whatever -- is probably the move they'll make. 

[Brandon Warne]

 

You called it preposterous to want to cut him.  He's the worst player in baseball (by WAR).  He starts nearly every night. 

 

No way. Alexei Ramirez, Prince Fielder.....those guys are all way worse. By fWAR, Santana is about neutral. 

[jimmer]

 

You called it preposterous to want to cut him.  He's the worst player in baseball (by WAR).  He starts nearly every night. 

When you take into account his time on the DL, he has started a pretty high percentage of games

[Mike Sixel]

I hope not......I'd just waive Plouffe at this point and hope someone takes him. If not, cut him. Cold to be sure.

 

If Sano is here, Plouffe should not be here next year. I'm assuming Sano is here.

I agree, the combo isn't perfect.....but there should be room to keep Sano, Dozier, Vargas, Polanco all playing 80% or so of the time. Dozier doesn't need to play every day.

[alarp33]

 

No way. Alexei Ramirez, Prince Fielder.....those guys are all way worse. By fWAR, Santana is about neutral. 

 

Sorry for not clarifying, the worst player in baseball since the start of 2015.. not just this seasons small sample.  -2.8 bWAR