Should Sano Get Demoted?

[Mike Sixel]

Santana is not the worst player by fWAR this year....not close......

[jimmer]

 

You called it preposterous to want to cut him.  He's the worst player in baseball (by WAR).  He starts nearly every night. 

 

http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=all&stats=bat&lg=all&qual=450&type=8&season=2016&month=0&season1=2015&ind=0&team=0&rost=0&age=0&filter=&players=0&page=10_30

[Brandon Warne]

 

When you take into account his time on the DL, he has started a pretty high percentage of games

 

And played well. Again, I don't think he should play this often -- I really think Molitor uses him too much -- but since coming off the DL in mid-June, he's hit .269/.329/.403. It's (strangely) a little like picking up where Eduardo Nunez left off, with a few more walks instead of power. 

[Brandon Warne]

 

Sorry for not clarifying, the worst player in baseball since the start of 2015.. not just this seasons small sample.  -2.8 bWAR

 

Fine, I get that. But he's been a lot better this year than last. 

[Brandon Warne]

Since Santana came off the DL, he's started 17 games and came into 10 more as a replacement. The Twins have played almost 40. 

 

So he's playing a little less than half the time. Still a little high for me, but.....

[jimmer]

 

And played well. Again, I don't think he should play this often -- I really think Molitor uses him too much -- but since coming off the DL in mid-June, he's hit .269/.329/.403. It's (strangely) a little like picking up where Eduardo Nunez left off, with a few more walks instead of power. 

no, did not play well.  not at all.  but you re certainly entitled to think he has.  he has played well in some cherry picked time frames, and that's good, but he's not a good major league  ballplayer.  he should be AAA filler.

 

 

[Brandon Warne]

 

no, did not play well.  not at all.  but you re certainly entitled to think he has.

 

Love it or hate it, in this offensive era getting a .269/.329/.403 line out of your utility player is very, very good. 

[Brandon Warne]

And again, I'm not saying that's a.| sustainable or b.| his true talent level. But if he's playing OK, I don't mind seeing him that often.

 

I still think he swings at everything, isn't good at stealing and isn't a great defender anywhere. But for the tired "25th-man" argument, he's fine. 

 

He's not as good as Jorge Polanco. He's not close. But he's a body who can stand in at a number of positions. 

[alarp33]

 

Fine, I get that. But he's been a lot better this year than last. 

 

Right.  He's up to a -0.4 bWAR and 81 ops+.  I'm sorry I don't see any value in that when he's not the 4th Outfielder, backup infielder, a pinch hit option, or someone you would use as a defensive replacement.  

[jimmer]

 

Love it or hate it, in this offensive era getting a .269/.329/.403 line out of your utility player is very, very good. 

yes, a wRC+ in the 70s and a negative WAR is good stuff.

 

On to other topics

[Brock Beauchamp]

Why would the Twins cut Santana? What do they have to gain from the move?

 

Bad teams should play questionable young players with modest upside to see what they have.

 

Compare your view of the Arcia trade and DFAing Santana. What's the difference? Why?

 

Santana can play out the season as the 24/25 man and then a decision can be made in November. You know what you have in Plouffe; if he doesn't like sporadic playing time for the rest of the season, too damned bad.

[alarp33]

 

http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=all&stats=bat&lg=all&qual=450&type=8&season=2016&month=0&season1=2015&ind=0&team=0&rost=0&age=0&filter=&players=0&page=10_30

 

I was using baseball reference, I should have clarified earlier

[alarp33]

 

Why would the Twins cut Santana? What do they have to gain from the move?

Bad teams should play questionable young players with modest upside to see what they have.

Compare your view of the Arcia trade and DFAing Santana. What's the difference? Why?

Santana can play out the season as the 24/25 man and then a decision can be made in November. You know what you have in Plouffe; if he doesn't like sporadic playing time for the rest of the season, too damned bad.

 

I think most of us in the option Santana camp (not necessarily cut, good chance he would clear waivers) don't see modest upside.  

 

That's probably where the disagreement comes in.  

[Brandon Warne]

 

Why would the Twins cut Santana? What do they have to gain from the move?

Bad teams should play questionable young players with modest upside to see what they have.

Compare your view of the Arcia trade and DFAing Santana. What's the difference? Why?

Santana can play out the season as the 24/25 man and then a decision can be made in November. You know what you have in Plouffe; if he doesn't like sporadic playing time for the rest of the season, too damned bad.

 

Pretty close to where I'm at. 

 

Two weeks at Rochester while the Twins figure out what to do with Plouffe won't kill Polanco either. And it might not even be Polanco. Might be Vargas (also dubious). 

 

But if you can't start Polanco and/or Vargas, you make a move in the meantime. 

[Mike Sixel]

 

Why would the Twins cut Santana? What do they have to gain from the move?

Bad teams should play questionable young players with modest upside to see what they have.

Compare your view of the Arcia trade and DFAing Santana. What's the difference? Why?

Santana can play out the season as the 24/25 man and then a decision can be made in November. You know what you have in Plouffe; if he doesn't like sporadic playing time for the rest of the season, too damned bad.

 

There are 25 spots.....what do you do when Plouffe comes back up?

 

Even if you cut Boshers or Milone.....you still have "too many" guys that need to play. Heck, I'd argue that it is hard to find a spot for Polanco right now.....

[Mike Sixel]

And in 2 or 4 weeks.........then what do you do with Polanco?

[Brandon Warne]

 

And in 2 or 4 weeks.........then what do you do with Polanco?

 

Rosters expand in four. 

[Brock Beauchamp]

And in 2 or 4 weeks.........then what do you do with Polanco?

Rosters expand in roughly four weeks. Rehab Plouffe for the max time, punt on making a decision.

[Brandon Warne]

 

Rosters expand in roughly four weeks. Rehab Plouffe for the max time, punt on making a decision.

 

I think you activate Plouffe and say "sorry Kennys!" for a couple weeks to try get a deal done. 

[Vanimal46]

 

Rosters expand in roughly four weeks. Rehab Plouffe for the max time, punt on making a decision.

This can work too. Plouffe down in AAA until the rosters expand. If push comes to shove, and Plouffe needs to come up from AAA, I'm hoping Polanco isn't the casualty here. Plouffe could play the Santana role playing at 3B, 1B, LF or RF if need be. 

[Jham]

 

Pretty close to where I'm at. 

 

Two weeks at Rochester while the Twins figure out what to do with Plouffe won't kill Polanco either. And it might not even be Polanco. Might be Vargas (also dubious). 

 

But if you can't start Polanco and/or Vargas, you make a move in the meantime. 

Santana hit 7 HR in his rookie season, on pace for 10+ over a full year (no BABIP involved).  Since then he's hit like 3.  Most players develop more power after their rookie year.  Something went haywire.  I think his switch hitting splits reversed as well, or something odd.  Anyway, I'm not sure what it is.  I also did not realize he is only 25.  It does seem odd to give up on the upside we saw a few years back, but he's really done nothing to warrant a guaranteed roster spot.

I sort of think he's playing because a) he's playing relatively well; and he could fit the bill of a potential waiver wire pick-up and could develop a little trade value.  

I actually think he'll be waived when Plouffe comes off the DL.
 

[Mike Sixel]

 

Rosters expand in four. 

 

And who plays? More people doesn't help your stance there isn't room for him to play now.......

[Brandon Warne]

 

And who plays? More people doesn't help your stance there isn't room for him to play now.......

 

Plouffe will be gone by then. 

[Brandon Warne]

 

I actually think (Santana) will be waived when Plouffe comes off the DL.

 

Respect the viewpoint and optimism, but just don't see it. 

[Brandon Warne]

 

This can work too. Plouffe down in AAA until the rosters expand. If push comes to shove, and Plouffe needs to come up from AAA, I'm hoping Polanco isn't the casualty here. Plouffe could play the Santana role playing at 3B, 1B, LF or RF if need be. 

 

Plouffe cannot play the outfield. That would be an unmitigated disaster with his lack of footspeed. 

[Mike Sixel]

 

Plouffe will be gone by then. 

 

Plouffe isn't here now, and you seemed to be saying it is hard to play Polanco now.  I thought.

[Brandon Warne]

 

Plouffe isn't here now, and you seemed to be saying it is hard to play Polanco now.  I thought.

 

Wasn't that in response to the 80 percent, all over comment? I can't even remember.

 

True enough though, it isn't easy to get him in there, because you can argue Vargas deserves a longer look too. 

[old nurse]

 

Why would the Twins cut Santana? What do they have to gain from the move?

Bad teams should play questionable young players with modest upside to see what they have.

Compare your view of the Arcia trade and DFAing Santana. What's the difference? Why?

Santana can play out the season as the 24/25 man and then a decision can be made in November. You know what you have in Plouffe; if he doesn't like sporadic playing time for the rest of the season, too damned bad.

The FO made the decision on boderline players. What makes the call on Arcia wrong is the FO made the decision. Just like they made the decision to keep Santana. They can point to Arcia's  kind of decent half year and say that he will develop from there while totally dismissing  Santana's great season calling it luck. 

[jimmer]

'The FO made the decision on boderline players. What makes the call on Arcia wrong is the FO made the decision. Just like they made the decision to keep Santana. They can point to Arcia'skind of decent half year and say that he will develop from there while totally dismissingSantana's great season calling it luck. '

 

Arcia's decent season wasn't helped by a BABIP in the 400s like Santana's great one was. 

 

Arcia's BABIP wasn't even the .300s in 2014, it was in the 200s, but I guess we can say their seasons were the same kind of seasons when we exclude any analysis of the seasons.  Better just to be more efficient and say people were picking on the old GM.

[Mr. Brooks]

Wasn't that in response to the 80 percent, all over comment? I can't even remember.

 

True enough though, it isn't easy to get him in there, because you can argue Vargas deserves a longer look too.

Vargas can play 1B almost every day and Mauer to the bench. One to two starts per week and pinch hit every close game for Joe.

People need to accept that Mauer is never going to regain his form. This is who he is now.