Should Sano Get Demoted?

[glunn]

Moderator note -- please be respectful of others even when you disagree. And don't post just to say that someone else is stupid.

[KirbyDome89]

How is this even being considered?....

[Stateofhokey]

I think that the buxton, kepler, ABW outfield worked well in the lookouts games. what's wrong with bringing all the you th up with sano and trying them out? They all won together moving up why not keep the core part together?

[zchrz]

Don't mess with Sano anymore, period.  Yes Sano has major issues over there right now but a large part of that problem was caused by the Twins screwing with him.  Its been quite awhile since he has been asked to play 3rd after TJ surgery, getting promoted as DH, and then shifted to the outfield. 

 

Just let him be for awhile see if he can cut out the boneheaded stuff and makes the easy plays, because he has way more than enough arm and his bat at 3rd is huge.  They were willing to let Plouffe struggle their for years, on better teams, with many of the same kind of mistakes and he eventually became a decent glove.  

 

They should make his weight and fitness the major focus of his off season, attach him to Berrios or hire Shabazz Mohammeds trainer or something. 

[Platoon]

I am in the camp that thinks Sano has the 'ability' to play third at this level, Gold Glove? Not! But I think his sitting is far more a lesson in humility and team construction, than over performance. I like a little cockiness and attitude, but he seems past that. This is likely about running through that stop sign, or even more likely, over the discussion that followed. Presently Sano seems very impressed with Sano. Confidence is all well and good, but if they don't get him to understand his talent is muted by his lack of attention to anything but hitting, his value is halved, and his abilities are wasted.

[jimmer]

 

They were willing to let Plouffe struggle their for years, on better teams, with many of the same kind of mistakes and he eventually became a decent glove.  

 

 

How long do you think Plouffe has been a Twin?

 

Plouffe didn't play a lick of 3B in the majors until 2012.  So right in the time we were doing all our losing.  He played there for lousy teams.  And Plouffe wasn't groomed to be a 3B in the minors either.

[Don Walcott]

I think Sano should be given at least the rest of the season to primarily play 3rd. If there's any way he can handle the position going into next year, it makes the lineup look way better and opens up space for our logjam at 1st/DH. Best case scenario, next year we have Mauer/Park/Vargas at 1b/DH and Sano/Polanco at 3b.

 

He should never have been put in the OF. But that's water under the bridge at this point. Keeping Plouffe and blocking Sano at 3b was a big mistake that should not be made again next year. Give Sano a chance to stick there, and if he really can't handle it, play Polanco there. I think he will be able to handle it, as he looks like he has the tools. He's still a very special talent, and he should be treated as such.

[twinssouth]

Just read in Strib that Sano missed his batting practice yesterday, said concerned about his effort to that effect.

 

 

His errors at 3rd are nothing new. Misses the routine but makes the tough ones. I've seen this in his minor league games. The man has got great talent. Things come easy. Just needs to bear down more.

[Han Joelo]

Demote? No. But I'm afraid Sano's name might be now on the side of Antony's whiteboard that once also had the names Arcia, Nolasco, and Meyer on it. The names of Hardy, Lohse, and Garza are still there, as the Twins only recently caught up to the rest of the league in marker technology.

 

Seriously, though, why not entertain the idea of trading him for pitching in the offseason?

[alarp33]

 

Speaking of Buxton's futility, he has 190 AB's with an OPS of 578 which would be a concern, but if the Yankees keep playing Hicks who now has 215 AB's and an OPS of 535 then Buxton will not be the worst OF in the American League.

 

Defense and Baserunning matter.  Buxton is not the worst outfielder on his own team, let alone in the American League.  He is over a full win above replacement better than Danny Santana, and also ahead of Eddie Rosario

[jimmer]

 

Defense and Baserunning matter.  Buxton is not the worst outfielder on his own team, let alone in the American League.  He is over a full win above replacement better than Danny Santana, and also ahead of Eddie Rosario

I guess Santana is an OF, but I think we all know he really isn't one.  He shouldn't even be playing while Buxton has been a top prospect for years. And on Fangraphs, Rosario is ever so slightly ahead of Buxton in WAR.

 

Having said that, after reading the post you quoted, I think the guy was mostly referring to offense.  Buxton has a wRC+ of 51.  There are 107 OF with 20 or more PAs, and our super-hyped, #2 overall draft pick, top 2 prospect for three years in a row, sits at 103rd in wRC+.

 

What's sad is that two other former 1st round picks of the Twins sit even lower.  The futility of out first rounders is quite concerning.

[alarp33]

 

I guess Santana is an OF, but I think we all know he really isn't one.  He shouldn't even be playing while Buxton has been a top prospect for years. And on Fangraphs, Rosario is ever so slightly ahead of Buxton in WAR.

 

Having said that, after reading the post you quoted, I think the guy was mostly referring to offense.  Buxton has a wRC+ of 51.  There are 107 OF with 20 or more PAs, and our super-hyped, #2 overall draft pick, top 2 prospect for three years in a row, sits at 103rd in wRC+.

 

What's sad is that two other former 1st round picks of the Twins sit even lower.  The futility of out first rounders is quite concerning.

 

The post called him the worst outfielder in the AL behind Hicks, which is wrong.  

 

Buxton leads Rosario in bWAR 0.8 to 0.2

 

What's concerning is the manager and hitting coach working with Sano and Buxton seem to have lifetime jobs.  I'm not concerned about either long term, but certainly not have Molitor/Bruno as the ones in charge during their formative early years in the bigs. 

[jimmer]

 

The post called him the worst outfielder in the AL behind Hicks, which is wrong.  

 

Buxton leads Rosario in bWAR 0.8 to 0.2

 

What's concerning is the manager and hitting coach working with Sano and Buxton seem to have lifetime jobs.  I'm not concerned about either long term, but certainly not have Molitor/Bruno as the ones in charge during their formative early years in the bigs. 

I know what he said, but again, when looking at what he said in context, I think he was just talking offense. He wouldn't be the first nor the last person to not parse his words exactly right when trying to make a point. 

 

And yeah, it depends on which WAR you like, I always prefer Fangraphs. I made it clear I was talking about Fangraphs.

 

The list of our first rounders from 2006-2011 is one tale of bust after another.  It's amazing how often we missed.  And 2012-2013 isn't looking much better except in the 'hope and pray' division....

 

And  I worry more about how they are developed in the minors.  In the majors they should be mostly finished products and our guys look nowhere near that with few exceptions.

[wsnydes]

I tend to think that concentration is Sano's biggest flaw.  I haven't seen anything that suggests that he can't play the position aside from mental lapses.  Every replay that I've seen of him making an error, he's not looking the ball into his glove.  He's trying to figure out where he's going with the ball before he has said ball.  

 

Regarding his hitting, I am starting to put more stock in the rumors about his work ethic.  It's getting concerning, but I don't see a need to send him down.  Molitor sitting him for a couple of games might be what is best for now.  

[alarp33]

 

 

 

And  I worry more about how they are developed in the minors.  In the majors they should be mostly finished products and our guys look nowhere near that with few exceptions.

 

I think both are a concern, I have faith the development in the minors, promotion schedules, etc. will change when the new GM is hired.  I don't have faith that Molitor is going to change his ways.  

 

I'm not sure you see many 22 year olds that are finished products, outside of the few outliers we've had recently with Trout, Machado, Harper, etc.  

[Pardon My Dinger]

Put him back in Right! That'll learn him.

[Mike Sixel]

I don't know what his attitude is or is not.........

 

From what we can actually see, I'd keep him here.

[Marzen2016]

How in the hell can this be a forum topic, demoting Sano! This is just downright Ludacris.

[birddog]

I agree that Sano should be here to stay. Sitting him twice a week sends a strong enough message to him that he must pay attention to details. He wants to play 3B, so now prove it by taking extra ground balls every day like Koskie did and come into ST next year at a weight that allows him to play 3B. We are playing good baseball now and don't need changes to our core players--only to let them play and see what we have for next year and beyond. If it's Polanco replacing Sano at 3B, that is just what we need to see for the future. If it's Plouffe--well that's not a good thing as I don't see him as a future Twin.

[wickedslider]

Interesting that today, the Strib would have a story based upon the same premise. They included the fact that Sano recently skipped batting practice despite being mired in a slump and putting up a record # of K's. Plenty of people are questioning his work ethic.

[ThejacKmp]

 

If anyone goes down, it is Buxton...told to bunt. Told to learn to use his speed. Soemthing isn't right when Nunez leads THIS team in stolen bases.

 

To be fair, Eduardo Nunez is leading the entire American League in stolen bases (even though he is in the NL now) and is 4th in the majors. So I don't think it's fair to say something isn't right because Nunez is leading the Twins in stolen bases. He would be leading every team but the Pirates, Brewers and Reds in stolen bases.

[ThejacKmp]

 

Interesting that today, the Strib would have a story based upon the same premise. They included the fact that Sano recently skipped batting practice despite being mired in a slump and putting up a record # of K's. Plenty of people are questioning his work ethic.

 

Or it could just be that the coaching staff thought he was pressing too hard and instructed him to skip batting practice because he needed a day off. It's pretty common for coaches to tell guys to take a day off and chill in baseball.

 

This seems like people looking around for something to get complain about because the Twins are actually playing good ball and there's no more Ricky to kick around anymore.

[ThejacKmp]

 

How in the hell can this be a forum topic, demoting Sano! This is just downright Ludacris.

 

Ricky is gone. TR is gone. The Twins are winning. We need someone else to kick around.

[ThejacKmp]

 

 

 

What's concerning is the manager and hitting coach working with Sano and Buxton seem to have lifetime jobs.  I'm not concerned about either long term, but certainly not have Molitor/Bruno as the ones in charge during their formative early years in the bigs. 

 

I don't see how they have lifetime jobs. The ownership just had to put out a press release saying that Molitor would be back in 2017 and no one has guaranteed Bruno anything. Both of those guys will be on thin ice with a new GM in 2017 and will need to show results.

[wickedslider]

 

Or it could just be that the coaching staff thought he was pressing too hard and instructed him to skip batting practice because he needed a day off. It's pretty common for coaches to tell guys to take a day off and chill in baseball.

 

This seems like people looking around for something to get complain about because the Twins are actually playing good ball and there's no more Ricky to kick around anymore.

I get your point about complainers though I'm not really one of those guys. For instance, I'm not a Mauer basher. I'm just disappointed from several reports about Sano that I've read this season. As old as I am, I've seen a number of pro athletes who for whatever reason didn't take their craft as seriously as they should, and a middling career that ends with a lot of "what if" questions, is the end result.

[mattkummer]

Ridiculous. The Twins are a rebuilding team and are in the process of clearing out veterans to make room for prospects and young talent. There is no logical point in sending Sano to AAA. What does it accomplish? You're taking a MLB-middle of the order bat and sending him down to work on defense? 

 

Look, even with his flaws, Sano is still the most dangerous hitter on this team. Look no further than Kepler getting intentionally walked last night to face Sano, and Miguel crushed a double to CF.

Yes, he's going to strike out a ton. No, he's probably not going to be a great 3B and will probably be a 1B/DH in a couple years. It's his bat, that power and decent plate discipline that makes him extremely valuable.

[dbminn]

I'd be fine with sending Sano down for a couple of weeks.

• He's pressing both at the plate and in the field.
• He doesn't look mentally prepared.
• Polanco, Dozier and Vargas have earned their starting positions for now.
• AAA is exactly the place to work on getting his rhythm back. Take a look at Rosario and Vargas. Both went to Rochester and significantly improved their plate discipline. (Rosario still isn't walking a lot but his swing and contact rates are way better).
• It's not the end of the world to work through a few issues away from big league stadiums.

Sano, IMO, is going to have a great career. He just needs to get his act together.

[ThejacKmp]

 

I get your point about complainers though I'm not really one of those guys. For instance, I'm not a Mauer basher. I'm just disappointed from several reports about Sano that I've read this season. As old as I am, I've seen a number of pro athletes who for whatever reason didn't take their craft as seriously as they should, and a middling career that ends with a lot of "what if" questions, is the end result.

 

More of a general TD tone than you specifically

 

I guess I just question the efficacy of those reports because it's so hard to understand what is really happening. The Twins are a young team and there are going to be hiccups as guys get used to performing every day on the big stage. Torii Hunter* struggled out of the box, Carlos Gomez was called a headcase**, Trevor Plouffe struggled for years - it's time we give the young guys a chance to play, sit them down when they make mistakes and keep the negativity down. Sano is fun to watch and for all the boneheaded moments, he has amazing moments that I choose to focus on.

 

 

 

** Carlos Gomes is still called a headcase but you get my point

[Loosey]

 

Interesting that today, the Strib would have a story based upon the same premise. They included the fact that Sano recently skipped batting practice despite being mired in a slump and putting up a record # of K's. Plenty of people are questioning his work ethic.

Batting practice isn't going to increase or decrease his strikeout rate.  Sano can hit with or without BP.  "Skipping" it as the Strib says isn't that big of a deal, especially if the coaching staff told him he was sitting that game or if it was to just have him clear his head.

[Loosey]

Ricky is gone. TR is gone. The Twins are winning. We need someone else to kick around.

 

Some people are never happy.