Article: Monday Funday

[Squirrel]

 

It makes it even funnier, doesn't it?

 

Yup ... I chuckled

[mazeville]

 

Again, I didn't say this, so if you want to continue the debate it would be best to stop putting words in my mouth.  I said buyout Nolasco, as in release.. DFA.  I never said they could get a prospect for him, so where did you get the quotes from

 

My mistake. Misread your comment. 

 

Still, I'd rather get something in return. Agree to disagree.

[troyhobbs]

Seems like the entire AL Central is being labeled as deadline losers which is also nice to see. Playing in a weak division: Hell it worked for the Twins of the early 2000s!

[SwainZag]

 

Right, they could've DFA'd Nolasco.  Essentially instead of choosing that option, they traded Meyer for Santiago.  

 

I'm far from sold on Meyer ever figuring it out, but its certainly possible, and this deal could be a big loss if he does.  

 

How about this scenario.....the Twins decide not to go to arbitration with Santiago and he becomes a free agent.  The trade would essentially be 2 months of Santiago and MR Busenitz for Nolasco and Meyer.  This move would save them $8M in the trade next year.  Would the Twins have taken $8M cash for Meyer?

[jimmer]

 

Seems like the entire AL Central is being labeled as deadline losers which is also nice to see. Playing in a weak division: Hell it worked for the Twins of the early 2000s!

Indians did pretty well in getting Miller (last night not withstanding), and  I see most sites recognizing that and declaring them as one of the deadline winners.

Edited August 2, 2016 by jimmer

[Tibs]

Yesterday was a lot of fun. It was the most fired up I have seen Seth on Twitter in quite some time

[Loosey]

Watching 4/6th of the future all shine yesterday was nice to see.  Kepler, Polanco, Rosario and Berrios all looked great.  That alone would have most teams excited about their future, but the Twins have two more who a year ago were more highly regarded than any of the above 4.  Think about that.  Most teams would kill for those 4 pieces as part of their future and the Twins have them plus 2 more that are possibly even better.  Add in additional guys waiting in the minors and the Twins could be good for while if the GM can make the right supplemental moves to add depth and fill in holes where they are needed.

 

Once Sano gets back to being Sano and Buxton figures out how to be an MLB hitter this team will be exciting to watch (not that they aren't already).

[alarp33]

 

How about this scenario.....the Twins decide not to go to arbitration with Santiago and he becomes a free agent.  The trade would essentially be 2 months of Santiago and MR Busenitz for Nolasco and Meyer.  This move would save them $8M in the trade next year.  Would the Twins have taken $8M cash for Meyer?

 

I think we both know that's unlikely... but interesting question.  I'm not sure that I would, but it's not my money.  

[troyhobbs]

 

Indians did pretty well in getting Miller (last night not withstanding), and  I see most sites recognizing that and declaring them as one of the deadline winners.

As long as they don't sign LeBron I'm not worried....

 

...no, you're right. CLE shouldn't be lumped in w/ KC, DET, & CHI, my bad.

[dxpavelka]

 

Rob Antony has changed my mind. He won all three trades. And the Nolasco deal was the type of creative trade this organization has desperately needed for decades. 

 

I would have definitely preferred to trade Brandon Kintzler and Kurt Suzuki. 

 

But I'm still OK with the team holding onto Ervin Santana and Brian Dozier. Both can be traded in the offseason - and contenders this year don't need second basemen so Dozier really wasn't a trade deadline target, anyway. I'd still rather the new regime assess the team and its ability to contend and make deals. 

 

Still, three trades were two more than I expected. And getting rid of Nolasco's contract was incredible. 

If the four pitchers acquired are solid contributors making up 30% of the staff 2-3 years from now he won all three trades.  Foolhardy to make such a proclamation at this point.

 

[Rosterman]

In the end, I almost saw Alex Meyer as being an odd-man out in the future plans of the Twins. As a starting candidate, he was being pushed by some names at AA right now (Gonsalves, Jay, Stewart). As a relief pitcher, this was his year to show (even though he was penned in as a starter). Right now, he fell behind Alex Wimmers in the call-up for September race.

 

So it was an okay move. He may be great a couple of years down the path, but chances of him getting great with the Twins in a couple of years jsut didn't seem to be in the picture.

 

It's the constant joy of looking at your system (and not failing). Where does Adam Walker fit in? Is he being pushed aside by Palka in an already crowded slugger zone that needs to find a place for Park, Kepler, Rosario, Sano, Vargas? Where will Harrison and Granite fit into the future picture. Was he a viable trade chip?

 

Who else would the Twins have been dangling matched with a player they wanted to move...Baxendale, Bard, Meija, Polanco? Polanco is interesting. He played third base. Did a couple of triples.

 

Am I sad to see Meyer leave? In context of the Span trade, where we were told we were fleecing the Nationals with a player from an area of strength on our team for a long-term asset, we suddenly hear rumbles that the Angels are drinking the same kool-aid, only that asset is three years older and doesn't seem ready to pitch in the majors...yet.

 

But back to Monday. What a game. Kepler is the hardest working player I have seen in quite awhile. Now if he can give Buxton a little bit of whatever it is he's drinking.

 

 

[bluechipper]

Great day yesterday for Twins fans. Max Kepler is having an amazing season. He's got an .879 OPS and 133 OPS+ on the season now.

[h2oface]

It was a very good day........but Boshers? He of the 9 ERA since his callback? I am not yet a believer.....

Me either. Fools gold early..... Coal coming up.

[Brock Beauchamp]

I think "fine with it" is a good way to put it. I'm shocked at the people bending over backwards to congratulate Antony.

 

They are still paying the same amount of money next year and Santiago is no sure thing to be anything more than a #5 starter

Yes. Antony did a decent job this deadline. I don't understand the accolades.

 

What Antony did should be the norm, not the basis for jubilant cheer.

 

I like all the moves. They were all fair trades of talent... But nothing stood out as amazing.

[Squirrel]

 

Yes. Antony did a decent job this deadline. I don't understand the accolades.

What Antony did should be the norm, not the basis for jubilant cheer.

I like all the moves. They were all fair trades of talent... But nothing stood out as amazing.

I agree. Sound perspective. It should be the norm but hasn't been in such a long time that it feels more than it was.

[Mike Sixel]

 

Yes. Antony did a decent job this deadline. I don't understand the accolades.

What Antony did should be the norm, not the basis for jubilant cheer.

I like all the moves. They were all fair trades of talent... But nothing stood out as amazing.

 

If your manager doesn't give you positive feedback for doing your job.....you are working for the wrong manager. Doing his job should get him accolades and positive feedback. 

[Brock Beauchamp]

If your manager doesn't give you positive feedback for doing your job.....you are working for the wrong manager. Doing his job should get him accolades and positive feedback.

I'm speaking from a fan perspective, not the Pohlad perspective.

[ashbury]

Yes. Antony did a decent job this deadline. I don't understand the accolades.

The moves are consistent with a larger strategy to both add young talent and improve roster flexibility. No single move will accomplish it all, so in that sense you're right, and the real proof will be what they do in the off-season with this (and any additional) new-found flexibility. But I am a lot more positive toward the possibility of RA having "Interim" removed from his title, and I never thought I'd say that after his first go-round. It seems decisions are finally being made about who fits into the team's long-term plans and who does not - e.g. Alex Meyer. I am somewhere between Decent and Accolades at the moment.

[jimmer]

 

The moves are consistent with a larger strategy to both add young talent and improve roster flexibility. No single move will accomplish it all, so in that sense you're right, and the real proof will be what they do in the off-season with this (and any additional) new-found flexibility. But I am a lot more positive toward the possibility of RA having "Interim" removed from his title, and I never thought I'd say that after his first go-round. It seems decisions are finally being made about who fits into the team's long-term plans and who does not - e.g. Alex Meyer. I am somewhere between Decent and Accolades at the moment.

 

Thing is, the bar was set so low, that having as much action as we did was fun to watch.  Bars being set low happens a lot with this team.  Think about the offseason before 2010.  Got Hardy, Thome and Hudson and people were crazy happy. It wasn't REALLY all that big of a deal, but for us it was like Xmas time. More recently, people have gotten super-excited over Rosario's rookie year and Escobar.  I mean, seriously, doesn't take much to get our fan-base humming a sweet tune.

 

Like you said, it moved us towards the right direction even if not everything was done that should have been done. And it's way more than I think our recently departed GM would have done.

Edited August 3, 2016 by jimmer

[Brock Beauchamp]

The moves are consistent with a larger strategy to both add young talent and improve roster flexibility. No single move will accomplish it all, so in that sense you're right, and the real proof will be what they do in the off-season with this (and any additional) new-found flexibility. But I am a lot more positive toward the possibility of RA having "Interim" removed from his title, and I never thought I'd say that after his first go-round. It seems decisions are finally being made about who fits into the team's long-term plans and who does not - e.g. Alex Meyer. I am somewhere between Decent and Accolades at the moment.

Hey, I like what he did.

 

But...

 

- There are still several guys on this roster with little to no future with the team.

 

- Getting rid of Nolasco was nice but Meyer went along with him. That's not a big win. It's a curious move, something interesting to follow.

 

- Nunez was the best trade but even that trade wasn't out of the park. The Twins got a marginal upside guy for a guy posting pretty good numbers with 1.5 years of control.

 

So, yeah, decent. I like what Antony did. That doesn't mean what he accomplished was amazing. I'm on board with the moves but more could have been done.

 

In a grading scale, I'd give him a B grade, I think. Solid, not amazing.

[Mike Sixel]

Wait, who said amazing? Didn't most here give him around a B?

[Brock Beauchamp]

Wait, who said amazing? Didn't most here give him around a B?

Brandon just gave him an A-.

[alarp33]

 

Wait, who said amazing? Didn't most here give him around a B?

 

Quite a few said he totally changed their minds and they would consider him for the full time job... based on trading Nunez, Nolasco, Meyer and Abad..... 

[Mike Sixel]

 

Brandon just gave him an A-.

 

Ah, well, I am working today........and haven't read it all yet. I said between B and B+, before I knew about the money going over with Nolasco. I still think it is a B. A- seems a biiiiiiiiit generous to me, but I'll read the article later and see.

[jimmer]

 

Wait, who said amazing? Didn't most here give him around a B?

I think I said 'B'  Yup, double checked and said solid B.

Edited August 3, 2016 by jimmer

[Brock Beauchamp]

Ah, well, I am working today........and haven't read it all yet. I said between B and B+, before I knew about the money going over with Nolasco. I still think it is a B. A- seems a biiiiiiiiit generous to me, but I'll read the article later and see.

No offense to Brandon but I think he's way off the mark.

 

As for my own grade, I initially had B- typed and then changed it to a B.

 

Upon further thought, I'd probably go back to the B- but that's picking nits, really.

 

It was a decent deadline.

[TheLeviathan]

What qualifies as amazing?  Do people think rebuilding teams are regularly unloading all their pieces?  If you're holding them to the standard that "A = trading anyone and everyone I deem should be gone" you've basically created a grade no one has ever achieved.  Making it an utterly useless designation

 

Your B is basically the best you can hand out.  Or am I missing some other justification people are using to knock this deadline?

[Brock Beauchamp]

What qualifies as amazing? Do people think rebuilding teams are regularly unloading all their pieces? If you're holding them to the standard that "A = trading anyone and everyone I deem should be gone" you've basically created a grade no one has ever achieved. Making it an utterly useless designation

 

Your B is basically the best you can hand out. Or am I missing some other justification people are using to knock this deadline?

There are a handful of players who could have been moved on top of the guys who were moved. Suzuki, Milone, Kintzler... And, course, Santana and Dozier.

 

I just listed five guys. That's 20% of the 25 man roster.

 

I like what Antony did this deadline. The return was close to on par with the value of each player.

 

More could have been done, therefore he gets a B.

 

Move Dozier for a top 100 prospect and that jumps to an A. The same goes for Santana. Maybe even Suzuki (though obliviously the return is much less than the other two guys).

 

I don't see why it's so radical that I question some of the moves while liking the general direction of events. This isn't a binary situation.

[TheLeviathan]

 

I don't see why it's so radical that I question some of the moves while liking the general direction of events. This isn't a binary situation.

 

I'm calling into question your justifications.  Not forcing you into a binary choice.  I don't even care what you call your grade.  If you give them a Z with good reasons, I care less than you giving a D with bad reasons. I'm wondering if we're being realistic in how we assess these.  

 

Look, could he have dealt those guys?  Maybe, but can you cite even one time in which a rebuilding team traded 80-90% of the guys that should be dealt?  Of late, a team even making three separate deals is relatively rare.  

 

Hell, the Yankees are generally lauded for this deadline and they still have plenty of similar deadweight that should have been dealt on their roster, are we applying the same standards?

 

I don't want to build Anthony a gold statue.  I don't even want to give him a grade, I jsut want to be fair in how we look at this.

Edited August 4, 2016 by TheLeviathan

[Brock Beauchamp]

I'm calling into question your justifications. Not forcing you into a binary choice. I don't even care what you call your grade. If you give them a Z with good reasons, I care less than you giving a D with bad reasons. I'm wondering if we're being realistic in how we assess these.

 

Look, could he have dealt those guys? Maybe, but can you cite even one time in which a rebuilding team traded 80-90% of the guys that should be dealt? Of late, a team even making three separate deals is relatively rare.

 

Hell, the Yankees are generally lauded for this deadline and they still have plenty of similar deadweight that should have been dealt on their roster, are we applying the same standards?

 

I don't want to build Anthony a gold statue. I don't even want to give him a grade, I jsut want to be fair in how we look at this.

The Yankees moved some high end players and brought back some fantastic prospects. It's not the same situation at all.

 

I didn't expect to see every player get traded, which is why I specifically mentioned that had Antony moved one higher end guy with a fair return, he gets an A.

 

And this is consistent with what I said two months ago when I put the over/under of guys traded at three. Move three guys, I'm happy. Move four, I'm ecstatic.