Article: Monday Funday

[DocBauer]

yeah, you never know, he could end up being flipped in the offseason or trade deadline next year.  it's not like this guy has been horrible his whole career, just tends to walk a few more than we like around here :-)

Indeed. I'm not saying the guy is all that, but I looked at his numbers the past 4 seasons, and other than higher BB rates than you'd like, his numbers are solid across the board. Not sure why some don't like him or think he and Nolasco are some kind of wash.

[terrydactyls]

The biggest event of the day for me was Berrios recovering from a bad first inning and follow it with five incredible innings. Hopefully, this is the start of a long run of Berrios Does It Again games.

[HitInAPinch]

 

Pretty much. We had the highest volume traffic in the history of the site yesterday.

Damn that Antony    ;-)

[mazeville]

 

I'm curious how he changed your mind? Did you think he was incapable of making a trade?  Running this organization takes a hell of a lot more than flipping Abad for a wild fireball reliever.  

 

I thought all 3 trades were ok to good, but let's not get ahead of ourselves here.  Antony will not be in charge by October, but potentially he can be an asset for 2017 while the new Pres/GM gets acclimated. 

 

If Alex Meyer turns out to be a shutdown reliever, which is absolutely possible, I'll wonder how "creative" that trade was. 

 

He changed my mind in that I did not think he -- and the Twins organization as a rule -- was capable of making aggressive, creative trades like this.

 

Whether you like it or not, this was a good, creative trade. On the surface, Antony upgraded the rotation for this year and next with a younger, better starter in exchange for one of the worst starters in the league and a failed prospect.

 

Don't get me wrong: I do not like the way the Twins have treated Meyer. I think he should have been in the majors in the second half of 2014, and believe their failure in this area will come back to haunt this team. It would not surprise me if he went on to be a solid MLB pitcher. But there is no question at this point that he is a failed prospect, a 26-year-old who has spent three years in AAA in an organization with one of the worst pitching staffs in all of baseball.

 

And remember: They can flip Santiago at the trade deadline next year if need be -- and generate some sort of return. So yeah, I'll call this a good trade. 

[HitInAPinch]

 

The biggest event of the day for me was Berrios recovering from a bad first inning and follow it with five incredible innings. Hopefully, this is the start of a long run of Berrios Does It Again games.

I would add that a big change was that Suzuki went out to calm Berrios down.

Remember what happened in Houston?  When both Berrios and Meyer were getting slaughtered, NO pitching coach or catcher went to the mound. 

 

Correct me if I'm wrong.  I may have walked away from the TV that day to bang my head against a wall.  Or pavement.

[alarp33]

 

 

 

And remember: They can flip Santiago at the trade deadline next year if need be -- and generate some sort of return. So yeah, I'll call this a good trade. 

 

We've seen what Tommy Milone's value has been around the league the last couple of years, and we've now seen what Santiago's value is.  

 

Flipping him for anything of value seems like a long shot at best

[troyhobbs]

 

The biggest event of the day for me was Berrios recovering from a bad first inning and follow it with five incredible innings. Hopefully, this is the start of a long run of Berrios Does It Again games.

Bigger than 3 HR's by the surging rookie sensation that is Max Kepler whose looking like a total beast in the 3 spot?

[Seth Stohs]

 

That was a good day, all around.  Fun to see Max have a great night, and I like how he responds to questions afterwards. I've been believing that they can compete next year and that's not going to change.

 

It's fun to see and hear how well he replies to questions and converses when we know that English is probably his 3rd or 4th language. He's good.

[Mike Sixel]

Beast might be over statement.....but yes, I think Berrios' start was more important than 1 game from a guy most of us believe in, and who has shown MLB success.....

[mazeville]

 

We've seen what Tommy Milone's value has been around the league the last couple of years, and we've now seen what Santiago's value is.  

 

Flipping him for anything of value seems like a long shot at best

 

Hector Santiago has a better career ERA and gets way more strikeouts than Tommy Milone (8.2 K/9 v. 6.4). He is also a former all star. He walks too many people and gives up too many home runs. But he could definitely fetch something in return.

 

I'm not saying they would get an Andrew Miller return. But he is a considerable upgrade over Ricky Nolasco.

 

And if you think that Alex Meyer was somehow going to figure things out in Minnesota, I have some oceanfront property in Arizona to sell you ... 

[alarp33]

 

Hector Santiago has a better career ERA and gets way more strikeouts than Tommy Milone (8.2 K/9 v. 6.4). He is also a former all star. He walks too many people and gives up too many home runs. But he could definitely fetch something in return.

 

I'm not saying they would get an Andrew Miller return. But he is a considerable upgrade over Ricky Nolasco.

 

And if you think that Alex Meyer was somehow going to figure things out in Minnesota, I have some oceanfront property in Arizona to sell you ... 

 

The Angels have seen Hector Santiago for 2 years, and thought it was worth giving him up for Nolasco and Meyer (who according to you has no chance of figuring it out)... but he has some immense trade value?  Color me skeptical

[jimmer]

What IS the color of skeptical?  is it a mix between green and orange? :-)

[Mike Sixel]

The Angels have the worst farm system in baseball.....they need all the flyers they can get. It cost them nothing, really.....since they aren't catching TX or Houston this year, and probably not next year.

[mazeville]

 

The Angels have seen Hector Santiago for 2 years, and thought it was worth giving him up for Nolasco and Meyer (who according to you has no chance of figuring it out)... but he has some immense trade value?  Color me skeptical

 

Please show me the quote where I said that Hector Santiago has "immense trade value."

[mazeville]

 

The Angels have seen Hector Santiago for 2 years, and thought it was worth giving him up for Nolasco and Meyer (who according to you has no chance of figuring it out)... but he has some immense trade value?  Color me skeptical

 

Let me, in fact, remind you of my quote:

 

" ... some sort of return."

 

That is not "immense trade value."

 

He could generate a return, which you could not have said about Ricky Nolasco 24 hours ago. 

 

And as I've said before, it's entirely possible that Alex Meyer figures it out and turns into a quality MLB regular. But there is almost no way that happens with the Twins organization. And Ricky Nolasco has been the worst starter in the majors since the Twins acquired him. 

 

I will give Rob Antony considerable credit for this. 

[alarp33]

 

Please show me the quote where I said that Hector Santiago has "immense trade value."

 

By writing this "I'm not saying they would get an Andrew Miller return. But.."  led me to believe you think he has real trade value.  I would put him in the category of Tommy Milone trade value

[alarp33]

 

 

 

He could generate a return, which you could not have said about Ricky Nolasco 24 hours ago. 

 

 

You are missing the point.  You can still say the same about Ricky Nolasco. He didn't generate a return, Alex Meyer did.  

[Taildragger8791]

 

The Angels have seen Hector Santiago for 2 years, and thought it was worth giving him up for Nolasco and Meyer (who according to you has no chance of figuring it out)... but he has some immense trade value?  Color me skeptical

 

The Angels probably figured they can't or won't resign Santiago after '17 and won't compete next year anyways, so they flipped him and took on a bad contract in order to gamble on Alex Meyer. Their farm system is barren and they took a chance on finding a new stud pitcher. Santiago isn't going to nab a big return but he could certainly net something if we don't need his services next year. He's far more serviceable than Nolasco, Milone, Hughes, or Duffey.

[alarp33]

 

The Angels probably figured they can't or won't resign Santiago after '17 and won't compete next year anyways, so they flipped him and took on a bad contract in order to gamble on Alex Meyer. Their farm system is barren and they took a chance on finding a new stud pitcher. Santiago isn't going to nab a big return but he could certainly net something if we don't need his services next year. He's far more serviceable than Nolasco, Milone, Hughes, or Duffey.

 

Right, he could net something like a bad contract and a pitcher that has as much chance of figuring it out as me finding an ocean in Arizona, according to the post I was replying to.  

 

Every player in baseball could be traded, we just saw that with Nolasco pairing with a prospect to go out the door.  The point I am trying to make is lets not act like on one hand, Meyer is a nothing prospect, and Nolasco is the worst pitcher in baseball... but on the same hand, the guy we got for them is going to be the missing piece or flipped for someone worthwhile.  

 

The Angels are taking a flier on Meyer, they gave up Santiago because they know he's nothing special and didn't have better options to deal him

Edited August 2, 2016 by alarp33

[mazeville]

 

You are missing the point.  You can still say the same about Ricky Nolasco. He didn't generate a return, Alex Meyer did.  

 

And what kind of return are you expecting of Alex Meyer?

 

He is the Twins' 18th best prospect. He has a history of shoulder problems. He is a 26-year-old who has spent three years at AAA for one of the worst teams in baseball. If you think the Twins were going to be able to use Meyer to get a stud catcher or shortstop you are sadly mistaken. 

 

This is EXACTLY the type of deal you do for someone like Meyer. You use him to rid yourself of a bad contract and get a serviceable starter with a good track record in return. 

[alarp33]

 

And what kind of return are you expecting of Alex Meyer?

 

He is the Twins' 18th best prospect. He has a history of shoulder problems. He is a 26-year-old who has spent three years at AAA for one of the worst teams in baseball. If you think the Twins were going to be able to use Meyer to get a stud catcher or shortstop you are sadly mistaken. 

 

This is EXACTLY the type of deal you do for someone like Meyer. You use him to rid yourself of a bad contract and get a serviceable starter with a good track record in return. 

 

I'm not a Pohlad pocket protector, so I would've preferred buying out Nolasco to including a prospect to rid themselves of the contract.  

 

I would've liked to see Meyer in the Twins bullpen in 2017. 

 

Where did I say he could get a stud catcher or shortstop?  

[mazeville]

 

By writing this "I'm not saying they would get an Andrew Miller return. But.."  led me to believe you think he has real trade value.  I would put him in the category of Tommy Milone trade value

 

So, what, are you missing the "not saying" part of that line or what? 

 

And again, he would generate a better return than Tommy Milone given his history. His ERA is better. His strikeout rate is better. And I'd imagine he'll do better in Target Field with an outfield of Rosario-Buxton-Kepler.

 

I am NOT saying he would generate any sort of massive return. He'd generate A return, which is something they could not have done with Nolasco. And the Twins did generate a return for Meyer - getting a hard-throwing reliever and getting rid of the worst free agent signing in Twins history.

[troyhobbs]

 

Beast might be over statement.....but yes, I think Berrios' start was more important than 1 game from a guy most of us believe in, and who has shown MLB success.....

"total beast" was meant to be interpreted with a hint of jest anyway but are you scoffing at a 3-HR performance?  That's like the equivalent of Berrios throwing a no hitter! He did throw well but 3 dingers man, c'mon....

[Mike Sixel]

We might not care about the money.....but the GM and owners do. I can't fault them for giving themselves the flexibility of getting out of some of that money if they want........

 

So, ya, a DFA might have been nice......and Meyer might surprise us all.....but was that likely here, in MN?

[Mike Sixel]

 

"total beast" was meant to be interpreted with a hint of jest anyway but are you scoffing at a 3-HR performance?  That's like the equivalent of Berrios throwing a no hitter! He did throw well but 3 dingers man, c'mon....

 

It was a great day for both of them.......for sure. I've been on the Max train (ha, in Portland the Max is the mass transit) since day one......

[mazeville]

 

I'm not a Pohlad pocket protector, so I would've preferred buying out Nolasco to including a prospect to rid themselves of the contract.  

 

I would've liked to see Meyer in the Twins bullpen in 2017. 

 

Where did I say he could get a stud catcher or shortstop?  

 

You didn't say stud catcher or shortstop. I used that phrase to explain that Alex Meyer would not generate any better of a return than the Twins received.

 

And again, if you think the Twins could have eaten Nolasco's contract to get a "better prospect" then I have that Arizona oceanfront property for you ...

 

They DID eat some of Nolasco's contract to get a better return. They're paying his contract this year and are throwing in $4 million next year. And let's not forget that they also got a hard-throwing reliever who was in AAA this year and throws 100.

 

Give them some credit. I hate what this front office has done over the past several years. HATE. I prefer the Twins make fewer moves to give the next front office the opportunity to do more of the assessment work.

 

But I'm also perfectly willing to give this front office and ownership credit when they deserve it. And they deserve that credit in this case.

[alarp33]

 

So, what, are you missing the "not saying" part of that line or what? 

 

And again, he would generate a better return than Tommy Milone given his history. His ERA is better. His strikeout rate is better. And I'd imagine he'll do better in Target Field with an outfield of Rosario-Buxton-Kepler.

 

 

 

It's odd to even bring the name Andrew Miller up if you didn't want to create some sort of parallel.  Excuse me for being confused.  

 

Again, you seem awful certain about this generate a better return that Tommy Milone, when the only evidence we have for is his value is for Ricky Nolasco and Alex Meyer "less of a chance than finding an ocean in Arizona".  I'm disagreeing based on what we actually know about his value, not what I want to believe his value is. 

 

Also, Target field is more of a home run park than Anaheim.  So we'll see how his home run rate does here.  

[alarp33]

 

 

 

 

And again, if you think the Twins could have eaten Nolasco's contract to get a "better prospect" then I have that Arizona oceanfront property for you ...

 

 

 

Again, I didn't say this, so if you want to continue the debate it would be best to stop putting words in my mouth.  I said buyout Nolasco, as in release.. DFA.  I never said they could get a prospect for him, so where did you get the quotes from

[Squirrel]

 

It was a great day for both of them.......for sure. I've been on the Max train (ha, in Portland the Max is the mass transit) since day one......

Thanks for explaining the pun

[Mike Sixel]

 

Thanks for explaining the pun

 

It makes it even funnier, doesn't it?