Article: Do You Trust Glen Perkins?

[USAFChief]

In an overall sense... I trust Perkins.

 

In a right now sense... I don't. He's hurt... tired or just plain slumping. He made some good pitches last night but he left a few too many where damage could be done and it was.

 

However... Our pen isn't overflowing with options right now or this year to be honest.

 

So I don't have an overall solution.

 

I think the issue goes back to late July. We needed more than Jepsen and Perkins not pitching well puts an exclamation point on that.

 

Holland fell apart for the Royals and they have the bullpen to just shove him aside for a moment. Not saying it's reasonable to expect the Royals pen... just saying that we needed more improvement with the playoffs a possibility and we should have been preparing better for injury or an extreme case of the struggles in the final months.

 

Great post. The pen looked to many of us to be flawed even before July, for that matter.

 

I would add that I think they could have found a way for, at minimum, Berrios and Meyer to audition in bullpen roles by September with the hope of adding a couple quality late inning options. Berrios' innings could have been manages, and why Meyer is home is a complete mystery.

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

Even Burdi.

[USAFChief]

Even Burdi.

It's another 40 man spot, but prolly him too.

[howieramone2]

Great post. The pen looked to many of us to be flawed even before July, for that matter.

 

I would add that I think they could have found a way for, at minimum, Berrios and Meyer to audition in bullpen roles by September with the hope of adding a couple quality late inning options. Berrios' innings could have been manages, and why Meyer is home is a complete mystery.

Meyer crapped the bed early in the season and it quickly turned to dysentery. As I recall he only started looking like he belonged in Rochester the final 2 weeks. Without revising history, tell me how Berrios' innings could have been managed.

[USAFChief]

Meyer crapped the bed early in the season and it quickly turned to dysentery. As I recall he only started looking like he belonged in Rochester the final 2 weeks. Without revising history, tell me how Berrios' innings could have been managed.

In his last 22.2 relief innings, covering his last month, Meyer allowed 15 hits, 2 runs, 10 walks, and had 22 K's.

 

I will gladly admit I don't know if he would have translated that to big league success. But I will also maintain he was already on the 40 man, the bullpen needed help, and there is zero reason he's now playing golf while you, me, and the Twins still don't know if he could have helped.

 

As for Berrios, is this a serious question? If so, it's not difficult. You manage his innings by managing them.

[jimbo92107]

At this point it would be better for Perkins if the Twins fell out of the race. His core is messed up. He needs some months of healing and rehab before he will get back his command. Even then, he's going to have to pitch fewer innings going forward. In 2016 platoon him with Jepsen, bring up Burdi, etc. 

[Thrylos]

 

At this point it would be better for Perkins if the Twins fell out of the race.

 

I guess Perkins' fans would care about what is better for Perkins rather than what is better for the Twins, which, of course, is to make the post-season

 

To hey about what is better for Perkins at this point....

[howieramone2]

 

In his last 22.2 relief innings, covering his last month, Meyer allowed 15 hits, 2 runs, 10 walks, and had 22 K's.

I will gladly admit I don't know if he would have translated that to big league success. But I will also maintain he was already on the 40 man, the bullpen needed help, and there is zero reason he's now playing golf while you, me, and the Twins still don't know if he could have helped.

As for Berrios, is this a serious question? If so, it's not difficult. You manage his innings by managing them.

Today on Twins Insider, TR stated Duffey making The Show this season came as a surprise. Some time ago on another episode, he said Duffey is having a better season than Berrios and that's why he was promoted to Target Field. As I have previously posted, he challenged the number crunchers to take a look at the numbers.

 

It follows that Berrios innings were not restricted in June or July because he was behind Duffey and not on the immediate radar. Is this enough to debunk the growing myth, or do you and the guys still feel the need to hold on to it?

Edited September 27, 2015 by howieramone2

[TheLeviathan]

Even if you buy Duffy being ahead of Berrios, the innings could have still been managed to make him a possible September weapon to employ.  Tying those two things together is really contorting yourself to miss the point Chief is making.

[howieramone2]

 

Even if you buy Duffy being ahead of Berrios, the innings could have still been managed to make him a possible September weapon to employ.  Tying those two things together is really contorting yourself to miss the point Chief is making.

There is a huge difference between common sense and contorting. That a 21 year-old, while in AA in June, and then promoted to AAA in early July where he did experience some growing pains in his first two starts, should have been on a innings count in said June and July, is beyond silly.

[TheLeviathan]

 

There is a huge difference between common sense and contorting. That a 21 year-old, while in AA in June, and then promoted to AAA in early July where he did experience some growing pains in his first two starts, should have been on a innings count in said June and July, is beyond silly.

 

I would argue making the decision he would be a non-factor in September before the season even started was the silly thing to do.  It was apparent in July that Berrios could be a factor - his innings could have been curtailed then.  The more rational explanation for why they weren't is that the Twins actively intended for him not to debut in 2015.

 

It literally has nothing to do with where he is in the pecking order relative to Duffey.  The real issue is the merits of deciding Berrios shouldn't debut this season.

Edited September 28, 2015 by TheLeviathan

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

There is a huge difference between common sense and contorting. That a 21 year-old, while in AA in June, and then promoted to AAA in early July where he did experience some growing pains in his first two starts, should have been on a innings count in said June and July, is beyond silly.

It's beyond silly to restrict the possible innings limitation to June and July.  By the end of July, after those first 2 AAA starts you mention, he was breezing through AAA lineups, and he was still about 57 innings under his +20% limit.

 

As an example of a young pitcher breaking into the bigs, Duffey has thrown 51 MLB innings since the beginning of August, with one start remaining.  If the Twins wanted Berrios in the MLB rotation next to Duffey this year, with another starter sliding to the pen, or a spot start evaluation of Berrios for potential pen duty himself, it was easily accomplished beginning in August.

 

(As an aside, I also hate automatically referring to scuffles in his first start or two as "growing pains" at a new level -- that is a possibility, but remember players are people that have to pack up and move when they are promoted too. Berrios also had his Futures Game start looming at that time as well. Judging from the stats we have surrounding his two career midseason promotions, Berrios has adjusted to new levels rather quickly.)

Edited September 28, 2015 by spycake

[spinowner]

 

I would argue making the decision he would be a non-factor in September before the season even started was the silly thing to do.  It was apparent in July that Berrios could be a factor - his innings could have been curtailed then.  The more rational explanation for why they weren't is that the Twins actively intended for him not to debut in 2015.

 

It literally has nothing to do with where he is in the pecking order relative to Duffey.  The real issue is the merits of deciding Berrios shouldn't debut this season.

Even though this continues the off-topic discussion I'll say that I think the Twins' handling of Berrios was based on putting his needs first and the needs of the major league team second (or third or fourth...). My opinion is that this is the correct approach for a 21-year-old pitching prospect.

[TheLeviathan]

 

Even though this continues the off-topic discussion I'll say that I think the Twins' handling of Berrios was based on putting his needs first and the needs of the major league team second (or third or fourth...). My opinion is that this is the correct approach for a 21-year-old pitching prospect.

 

Certainly.  Reasonable people can disagree about the merits of their decision about Berrios, but it has nothing to do with Duffy.

[d-mac]

Maybe Perkins is just on the wrong side of 30 and finally showing his age? That's the problem with being too tied to individual pitchers in the bullpen- they break often and need replacement. Locking them up to long-term contracts are never wise- especially at an advanced age.  If it were up to me, I would have traded him in 2013 or 2014. 

[Craig Arko]

PERKINS: You don't trust me, Spock.
SPOCK: In fact, I do. But only to a certain point.

[Kwak]

The premise of this entire discussion is based on "innings limitation theory".  That somehow +20% increase is a sacred number.  Medical study supporting this?  No.  It's a self-imposed limitation that [likely] was used to convinced ownership that management will "protect their investment" in pitchers by limiting innings. Unfortunately 

sports medicine has not progressed to the point of "injury prediction" to lend any more credibility than simply "less use, less risk"--hence the religious adherence to 100 pitch limits--and "innings use increase limitation.".  Sadly, pitchers still get injured and owners stuck paying them to recover from them.

[spanman2]

It would be interesting to know deep deep down if Glen trusts Glen? Of course he would say yes outwardly but I have a feeling he may not be 110% on board within himself from a confidence perspective. It seems to be more of a location issue vs. velocity to me. When he makes a mistake the opposition is punishing those pitches on a consistent basis since the All Star break which as a batter is your objective of course. I would be hesitant say wild card game Yankee stadium bottom of the 9th up 1 with the meat of the lineup due up. That would scare me a bit.

[blairpaul715]

 

There is a huge difference between common sense and contorting. That a 21 year-old, while in AA in June, and then promoted to AAA in early July where he did experience some growing pains in his first two starts, should have been on a innings count in said June and July, is beyond silly.

And they also did manage his innings in AAA, he never pitched more than 7 innings in any one game.........altho i would liked him to be up, i am certainly not one of them to think it is mismanagement at all.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

And they also did manage his innings in AAA, he never pitched more than 7 innings in any one game.........altho i would liked him to be up, i am certainly not one of them to think it is mismanagement at all.

7 innings / 100 pitches isn't innings/pitch management, that's just normal usage.
 

I'll drop it since I just noticed the title of the thread.

[Linus]

I thought Perk looked sharp last night. Even the single was off the trademark and then he dominated. Let's hope he's back.

[Halsey Hall]

No. And he's looking for trouble throwing 0-2 strikes. 

[Physics Guy]

11 for 11 throwing strikes last night.  A considerable improvement.  My guess is you are being facetious, HH, but here's my take.  The first out was a called third strike and on the outside edge (marginal by Fox Track) and the swinging third strike was a slider down or out of the zone.  He looked much more like he did in the first half.  Let's hope he can continue.

[Halsey Hall]

Nope, being honest.  I thought they said 13, but either way he's got to tempt them off the plate with 2 strikes.  Like that slider down last night.  He's given up some big hits on 0-2 counts.  We'll probably need him a couple more times this year so let's hope he's back to first half form.

[DaveW]

He looked solid the other day again, I just wouldn't trust him to pitch any more than one inning at this point (Which is what doomed us in that heartbreaker last week)

[cjj td]

Ahhhhhhhhhh......   no.

[Otto von Ballpark]

What is especially strange is how Perk became option #1 to enter a game with runners on base. That obviously wasn't part of his job as a closer, and it seems like the last place you'd want to deploy him in his current volatile, erratic state.

 

I posted this in the Molitor thread too, but his over-reliance on Perk has been perhaps his most glaring mistake late in the year.